Who is considered a LEO?

[Len-2A Training]

This is one of the reasons I switched to the Fire side of things. Collectively, the entire LEO side in Mass has had their panties in a wad for DECADES. When I got selected for the MSP in 1982, my father the Boston cop, threatened to disown me!!! I could not believe the incredible level of hatred toward another agency.

Yup, until you get to see it up close and personal, first hand, it's difficult to comprehend . . . and there is plenty of blame to go around. I could tell you stories . . . or folks could just cruise thru Masscops.com to see for themselves.

 

[ArmyOfficer]

. . . or folks could just cruise thru Masscops.com to see for themselves.

That's exactly what I did. Tried looking around for some info and realized within a few minutes what pot I stirred up. This conversation should be added to the "never talk about "politics or religion" theory...I'm kicking myself for asking...dohhhhh...

 

[ochmude]

Any citizen can detain someone for a felony "in fact committed". That's a citizen's arrest. Read my previous post. It spells out the LEOSA definition quite clearly.

That "in fact committed" requirement is pretty strict, though. Based on court interpretation, the felony has not, in fact, been committed until a guilty verdict is handed out at trial. If a private citizen detains someone for a felony which was committed in that citizen's presence, and the individual is acquitted, the citizen may be sued for false arrest or false imprisonment.

 

[ochmude]

The real question was where's the line between a LEO and security guard? Also, what's a reserve police officer? Do PD's actually have part time officers or is this something different? Are campus cops LEO? If I were looking into becoming a Part time LEO, where would I look?

In MA, the difference is enormous. To the exclusion of the rule 400 stuff which exists only within the city limits of Boston, there is no official licensing, certification, or even [technically] recognition of security guards in MA. As a security guard (which I am, 3 nights a week) you are nothing more than a private citizen who wears funny clothes someone bought from Galls. MA is actually very unique in this regard. Most other states require a minimum of training from state approved instructors in order to get a "guard card" or other sort of security license. In MA, you can just buy one of those t-shirts that says "SECURITY" and you're all set. Heck, more than a few of the guards that I've worked with have multiple arrests on their records, and are intimately familiar with the local houses of correction.

 

[Mini Glock]

If the badge says POLICE then they are a LEO. All else is immaterial.

I was only referring to the comments about campus police not being LEO's in post #14. Or more accurately questioning if they were considered a LEO. It seemed erroneous to question if someone with police in their title is a LEO.

Several Community Colleges that I know of have Police in their "title" and they're unarmed and not really trained well. (I'm not talking about the Colleges that send their officers to academies and arm and train them well) I've been lucky enough to live up and down the East Coast so I know that Sheriff's Depts in other states have more police powers than Local LEOs. Not so much here. I've been Military LEO, Sheriff's Dept and now Local. At least now I can carry anywhere in the country.

 

[joehaus]

Several Community Colleges that I know of have Police in their "title" and they're unarmed and not really trained well.

Are you implying that they are not police and are only dressing up like them?

 

[ochmude]

Several Community Colleges that I know of have Police in their "title" and they're unarmed and not really trained well. (I'm not talking about the Colleges that send their officers to academies and arm and train them well) I've been lucky enough to live up and down the East Coast so I know that Sheriff's Depts in other states have more police powers than Local LEOs. Not so much here. I've been Military LEO, Sheriff's Dept and now Local. At least now I can carry anywhere in the country.

True, but in that same regard there are a few that I know of that are called "public safety officers" but they are armed and are SSPO trained. Usually the uber-liberal colleges *cough*Smith*cough* shy away from referring to them as "police", even when they are. Although Smith in particular is not armed, but they are SSPO certified. I'd say anyone who goes through New Braintree is a LEO, even if they don't have "police" in their title.

 

[GSG]

The real question was where's the line between a LEO and security guard?

Well, most cops don't pretend to be security guards, for starters.

That "in fact committed" requirement is pretty strict, though. Based on court interpretation, the felony has not, in fact, been committed until a guilty verdict is handed out at trial. If a private citizen detains someone for a felony which was committed in that citizen's presence, and the individual is acquitted, the citizen may be sued for false arrest or false imprisonment.

Commonwealth v. Harris, right? You taught me that one already.

Are you implying that they are not police and are only dressing up like them?

I don't think that's what she's saying, but I'm not her...maybe she'll chime in again to clarify.

I can think of one college police department in particular that has an unarmed "campus police" force. They are strongly, strongly encouraged not to make arrests (because it reflects negatively on the college when the annual crime reports are published; if no one's charged, then officially, no crimes were committed, not even big famous ones that make all the local newspapers). They have little to no training, and many carry no equipment whatsoever.

They weren't all bad guys, but aside from the patches on their shirts there was nothing "police" about them.

 

[securityboy]

Several Community Colleges that I know of have Police in their "title" and they're unarmed and not really trained well...

While not really the focus of the original question, I will just add that in the above sitautionde spite being employed as Police Officers by a government entity, I would think that these unarmed officers do not "qualify" under LEOSA...as part of the LEOSA language requires firearms qualifications, seems pretty obvious that they cant meet that part of the definition...

 

[ochmude]

<snip>
Commonwealth v. Harris, right? You taught me that one already.
<snip>

That would be the one, lol.

While not really the focus of the original question, I will just add that in the above sitautionde spite being employed as Police Officers by a government entity, I would think that these unarmed officers do not "qualify" under LEOSA...as part of the LEOSA language requires firearms qualifications, seems pretty obvious that they cant meet that part of the definition...

Does the LEOSA require that the officers be armed pursuant to their duties, or just that they be qualified, presumably through official training, in the use of firearms. I ask because many colleges choose to keep their police unarmed, but they do still go through the full firearms qualification at the SSPA, at least I'm pretty sure they do.

 

[securityboy]

Does the LEOSA require that the officers be armed pursuant to their duties, or just that they be qualified, presumably through official training, in the use of firearms. I ask because many colleges choose to keep their police unarmed, but they do still go through the full firearms qualification at the SSPA, at least I'm pretty sure they do.

I stole this off WIKI with regard to LEOSA:

In order to be covered as a "qualified law enforcement officer," a person must meet each and every one of the following criteria: He or she must be
(1) "an employee of a governmental agency";
(2) "authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law";
(3) have "statutory powers of arrest";
(4) "authorized by the agency to carry a firearm";
(5) "not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency";
(6) "meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm"; and
(7) "not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm." In addition, the privilege conferred by the law applies only when the individual "is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance.

In order to exercise the privilege, the LEOSA-qualified individual must carry "the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer."

As such assuming this Wiki is correct and I beleive it is, #4 & #6 would seem to be probelematic for un-armed state college police officers...

 

[ochmude]

I stole this off WIKI with regard to LEOSA:

In order to be covered as a "qualified law enforcement officer," a person must meet each and every one of the following criteria: He or she must be
(1) "an employee of a governmental agency";
(2) "authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law";
(3) have "statutory powers of arrest";
(4) "authorized by the agency to carry a firearm";
(5) "not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency";
(6) "meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm"; and
(7) "not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm." In addition, the privilege conferred by the law applies only when the individual "is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance.

In order to exercise the privilege, the LEOSA-qualified individual must carry "the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer."

As such assuming this Wiki is correct and I beleive it is, #4 & #6 would seem to be probelematic for un-armed state college police officers...

So it would seem. Bummer for them. Thanks for posting that, I was unfamiliar with all the requirements.

 

[Jeff the Dad]

Several Community Colleges that I know of have Police in their "title" and they're unarmed and not really trained well. (I'm not talking about the Colleges that send their officers to academies and arm and train them well) I've been lucky enough to live up and down the East Coast so I know that Sheriff's Depts in other states have more police powers than Local LEOs. Not so much here. I've been Military LEO, Sheriff's Dept and now Local. At least now I can carry anywhere in the country.

IIRC, while a student at one of our illustrious UMASS campuses, I had many opportunities to talk with the campus police on many occasions through my job (Student Union Operations Manager). Through those conversations, I became aware that they are trained at the state police academy, and have state trooper authority while on the campus grounds (This may only apply to UMASS campuses, not community colleges). While I don't recall them carrying side arms, they were carrying battons, and pepper spray, and could arrest students. I believe in instances where events got out of hand, the local State Troopers baracks were notified/called in, but worked in unison with the local campus police. I also think all 'arrests' were temporarily processed at the campus office, but serious lockup was at the local Trooper barracks. All investigations for student related matters were out of the campus PD as well.

Just some more fuel....

 

[Len-2A Training]

Item 1 above is also a problem for non-state run colleges (most colleges in MA), so even if they meet all the other criteria, they do NOT qualify under LEOSA.

Proper photo ID issued by the "governmental agency" is another problem that even some municipal departments haven't all addressed adequately . . . but many chiefs don't want their troops carrying off-duty anyway so there is little/no incentive to "do the right thing"!

 

[Len-2A Training]

Jeff, your quote above is NOT what I wrote. It was what someone else in the "foodchain" wrote. The give-away is that I have only lived in two states, never been in the Military or Sheriff's Dept. - I think that was Mini-Glock's words, but not certain.

 

[securityboy]

Item 1 above is also a problem for non-state run colleges (most colleges in MA), so even if they meet all the other criteria, they do NOT qualify under LEOSA.

Thats probably why I said:

...I will just add that in the above sitaution in spite being employed as Police Officers by a government entity...

As for this, more or less correct but some "fine point issues" :

IIRC, while a student at one of our illustrious UMASS campuses, I had many opportunities to talk with the campus police on many occasions through my job (Student Union Operations Manager). Through those conversations, I became aware that they are trained at the state police academy, and have state trooper authority while on the campus grounds (This may only apply to UMASS campuses, not community colleges). While I don't recall them carrying side arms, they were carrying battons, and pepper spray, and could arrest students. I believe in instances where events got out of hand, the local State Troopers baracks were notified/called in, but worked in unison with the local campus police. I also think all 'arrests' were temporarily processed at the campus office, but serious lockup was at the local Trooper barracks. All investigations for student related matters were out of the campus PD as well.

Just some more fuel....

Authority is the same at ALL STATE SCHOOLS (University, colleges, & Community colleges), for whatever reasons some choose not to go armed etc, but the powers are the same.

I gues its a name issue but they have state police powers, not state trooper powers (ie what I am getting at is the campus police departments are a seperate entities, not a division(s) of the state police). Many schools do not have the facilities to hold arrestees for any length of time, and may have agreements with the local state polcie barracks or local PD for "courtousy" holdings.

 

[GSG]

Does the LEOSA require that the officers be armed pursuant to their duties, or just that they be qualified, presumably through official training, in the use of firearms.

It doesn't. Federal Bureau of Prisons staff can carry under LEOSA (although the higher ups apparently frown on any kind of off-duty carry), but the vast majority of BOP guys are unarmed when on duty at the prisons. Some in the towers, outside patrols or transport duty carry, but that's a very small percentage of the staff, and for many it's not regular to be armed at all.

 

[Talon3]

To further the can of worms thing,
the courts have a really interesting view on who is a LEO
even the feds have to beg permission, while in state agencies are denied out right.
Reminds me of a suitability thing I've heard about somewhere........

This is a te-type of a faxed memo we received a month ago from the Court Security Dept

To: Regional Asst Directors of Security
Chief Court Officers

From: Thomas J. Connolly, Director of Security

Date: Novemebr 18, 2009


RE: Weapons Access

Based on our meeting last week, I wanted to clarify our weapons policy and emphasize those departments whose personnel are allowed to enter out courthouses with their wepons on duty:

Allowed to Enter:

Massachusetts State Police
Local City or Town Police Departments within the courts jurisdiction
Deputy Sheriffs
Transit (MBTA) Police
Massachusetts Department of Corrections transportation teams
DYS transportation teams
Federal LE agencies (with approval from Security Director)

Not Allowed:

University or campus police
Massachusetts Environmental Police
Harbormasters
Constables
Police Officers on perosnal buisness
Municipal / housing Police


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

End memo

 

[securityboy]

To further the can of worms thing,
the courts have a really interesting view on who is a LEO.

Umm No, that in no way says who is or who is not a LEO, that is a list of who and under what cricumstances someone is allowed to carry a firearm into a Massachussetts court house...

 

[ryan81986]

I can think of one college police department in particular that has an unarmed "campus police" force. They are strongly, strongly encouraged not to make arrests (because it reflects negatively on the college when the annual crime reports are published; if no one's charged, then officially, no crimes were committed, not even big famous ones that make all the local newspapers). They have little to no training, and many carry no equipment whatsoever.

North Shore CC?

 

[Half Cocked]

YOU ARE A COP IF ....

1) You have the bladder capacity of five people.

2) You have ever restrained someone and it was not a sexual experience.

3) You believe that 50% of people are a waste of good air.

4) Your idea of a good time is a gun run or a car chase. hehe

5) You conduct a criminal record check on anyone who seems friendly towards you.

6) You believe in the aerial spraying of Prozac and birth control pills.

7) You disbelieve 90% of what you hear and 75% of what you see.

8) You have your weekends off planned for a year.

9) You believe the government should require a permit to reproduce.

10 ) You refer to your favorite restaurant by the intersection at which it's located.

11) You have ever wanted to hold a seminar entitled: "Suicide...getting it right the first time."

12) You ever had to put the phone on hold before you begin laughing uncontrollably.

13) You think caffeine should be available in IV form.

14) You believe anyone who says, "I only had two beers" is going to blow more than a .15

15) You find out a lot about paranoia just by following people around.

16) Anyone has ever said to you, "There are people killing other people out there and you are here messing with me."

17) People flag you down on the street and ask you directions to strange places...and you know where it's located.

18) You can discuss where you are going to eat with your partner while standing over a dead body.

19) You are the only person introduced at social gatherings by profession. (ISN'T THIS THE TRUTH!)

20) You walk into places and people think it's high comedy to seize their buddy and shout, "They've come to get you, Bill."

21) You do not see daylight from November until May.

22) People shout, "I didn't do it!" when you walk into a room and think they're being hugely funny and original.

23) A week's worth of laundry consists of 5 T-shirts, 5 pairs of socks, and 5 pairs of underwear.

24) You've ever referred to Tuesday as "my weekend", or "this is my Friday".

25) You've ever written off guns and ammunition as a business deduction.

26) You believe that unspeakable evils will befall you if anyone says, "Boy, it sure is quiet tonight." always!!!

27) Discussing dismemberment over a meal seems perfectly normal to you.

28) You find humor in other people's stupidity. (CONSTANTLY)

29) You have left more meals on the restaurant table than you've eaten.

 

[GSG]

North Shore CC?

No that's not it, but it's sad that there's more than one in Mass.

PM sent.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

I'm not too familiar with LEO's so I wanted to get the scoop/education.

Who exactly is considered a LEO? I.e Local Police, University Police, MBTA Police, State Police, etc...but where does the "part time cop" and security guard fit in?

Pends who you ask.

I was thinking on taking a part time police academy course to get the training and see what opportunities were out there other than a local PD...more or less a "part time cop" type of position, bud don't know where to start or if this even exists as a LEO?

Any info would be greatly appreciated...school me.

I know of a town that had (has?) Auxiliary, Special, Regular Part-Time, Regular Full-Time. The reg PT and FT were armed, academy trained, powers of arrest, etc. Not so much with the aux and specials.

 

[ztp]

To further the can of worms thing,
the courts have a really interesting view on who is a LEO
even the feds have to beg permission, while in state agencies are denied out right.
Reminds me of a suitability thing I've heard about somewhere........

This is a te-type of a faxed memo we received a month ago from the Court Security Dept

To: Regional Asst Directors of Security
Chief Court Officers

From: Thomas J. Connolly, Director of Security

Date: Novemebr 18, 2009


RE: Weapons Access

Based on our meeting last week, I wanted to clarify our weapons policy and emphasize those departments whose personnel are allowed to enter out courthouses with their wepons on duty:

Allowed to Enter:

Massachusetts State Police
Local City or Town Police Departments within the courts jurisdiction
Deputy Sheriffs
Transit (MBTA) Police
Massachusetts Department of Corrections transportation teams
DYS transportation teams
Federal LE agencies (with approval from Security Director)

Not Allowed:

University or campus police
Massachusetts Environmental Police
Harbormasters
Constables
Police Officers on perosnal buisness
Municipal / housing Police


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

End memo

This is interesting. What about university or campus police who are also Deputy Sheriffs?

 

[securityboy]

This is interesting. What about university or campus police who are also Deputy Sheriffs?

Is that really that hard of a question? It would depend on "what" they are right then, is the purpose of thier "visit" as a Deputy Sheriff or as a Campus Police Officer...