Who's looking to buy the 365?

42! - you hit the nail on the head. Both of your primary handguns are the SAME.

The fact that you are consistent is good. Like the joke says "Beware the man with only one gun".

To extend on your situation. If you suddenly started shooting a Glock regularly, I'd tell you to either stop shooting the Glock or get yourself a striker fired carry gun. The problem is the changing.

Its also the lack of practice. I hope you practice swiping the safety off when you come up mutlple times every time you shoot it. Preferably every time the gun comes up from the table or out of the holster. Conversely, the safety should come on INSTINCTIVELYwhen it comes off target.
 
Don, how long did the mistakes delay your shooting?

I think that people choose manual safeties because they think the reduced risk of an ND is of greater value than the reduced risk of a half to one second delay making a deadly difference in a combat situation. The former is a risk every day you carry, while the latter is a risk in the one in a million chance you not only need to shoot, but the delay makes a difference.

It does happen - the guys in the Texas church seemed delayed (2-3 seconds?) by something, and it cost one his life, and it might have caused the 2nd victim his life. But this event probably shows that manual or no manual matters less than (1) did you practice your draw from under clothing enough, and (2) are you in shape, so that you can move when you need to.

The mistake delays myfirst shot longer than you would think. Squeeze the trigger, stop, squeeze again, recognize what the problem is, swipe the safety off, squeeze again. I'd say between 1.5 and 2 seconds. As a point of reference, a reasonably proficient shooter who has been trained in point/instinctive shooting should be able to draw and put 3 shots into a target in under 2 seconds.

I agree with you about how there is a trade off between risk of a ND and reliability. (a manual safety is no slower, provided you know how to use it) The reliability issue is a human one, that really mainly exists if you shoot both guns with and without safeties.

Good technique will reduce but never eliminate the chance of a ND. But that's why we have multiple layers of safety in our behavior.
1) don't point the gun at anything you don't want to kill.
2) keep your trigger finger out of the trigger guard until you intend to shoot.
3) and yes, the extra layer of a manual safety - don't swipe the safety off until you are on target.

In order to shoot someone you have to break all 3 of those rules. Break 1 and nobody gets hurt. Even if its a ND. Because you weren't pointing the gun at anyone. Every year, lots of people squeeze the trigger on an "empty" gun but nobody gets hurt because they thankfully pointed it at the ground when they squeezed the trrigger.

Don
 
I suppose you could always just opt not to use the manual safety...
NOOOOO. What happens if the manual safety is bumped on but you have never practiced using it??

You come out of the holster and squeeze the trigger and NOTHING. But because you have alsways just left it off, you don't instinctively know how to respond.

That is about the worst thing you could do.
 
I suppose you could always just opt not to use the manual safety...
NOOOOO. What happens if the manual safety is bumped on but you have never practiced using it??

You come out of the holster and squeeze the trigger and NOTHING. But because you have alsways just left it off, you don't instinctively know how to respond.

That is about the worst thing you could do.
Your not going to bump on the safety of a 365. It’s too small and too hard to engage to accidentally do so.
 
Your not going to bump on the safety of a 365. It’s too small and too hard to engage to accidentally do so.

if you check it's off when you put it in the holster it's not likely to get switched on, but in the chaos of an actual shoot where you're fumbling to draw your gun, it's possible. Or you might forget to check when you put it in the holster. Murphy's law says that'll be the day the shit goes down. :)

we're talking small odds that any of this matters, it's the piece of mind that matters. That means different things to different people.
 
if you check it's off when you put it in the holster it's not likely to get switched on, but in the chaos of an actual shoot where you're fumbling to draw your gun, it's possible. Or you might forget to check when you put it in the holster. Murphy's law says that'll be the day the shit goes down. :)

we're talking small odds that any of this matters, it's the piece of mind that matters. That means different things to different people.
Nope. Disagree. I don’t worry about accidentally bumping mag release either.
 
Well I have two striker fired 9mm pistols with safeties. I carry them with the safety off. I specifically bought them with safeties because for me the most likely time for a ND is reholstering. I apply the safety when reholstering and flip it off just before the pistol is fully seated in the holster. The point is to avoid the likelihood of catching the trigger on something unintentionally while reholstering. The LC9s and the P365 both have smooth easy triggers compared to many striker fired guns lending itself to my meat hooks pushing them down on something which could set them off. The safety gives me peace of mind.
 
Damn...the XL zero is tempting. I just got my first red dot pistol (TP9SFX) and i can now understand the appeal of it. I find myself being slower to acquire target, but my god are they accurate.
 
Need a Sig but have been gaga for
Glocks lately. The P320 would be a solid carry piece but I’ve heard great things about the P365 and that it’s a good summer carry piece so I’m undecided at the moment, because there’s also the old school P226 to consider.
 
Need a Sig but have been gaga for
Glocks lately. The P320 would be a solid carry piece but I’ve heard great things about the P365 and that it’s a good summer carry piece so I’m undecided at the moment, because there’s also the old school P226 to consider.

If you want to try either in the south shore, let me know.
 
Need a Sig but have been gaga for
Glocks lately. The P320 would be a solid carry piece but I’ve heard great things about the P365 and that it’s a good summer carry piece so I’m undecided at the moment, because there’s also the old school P226 to consider.

I have alot of experience with the 320c. It's for sure a carry gun, but yesterday I was able to compare the 2 side by side (365 and 320)...It's incredible how sig made such a good, yet small, firearm. If I start to CC I think it will be the 365...The size difference is pretty remarkable. (thats what she said)
 
But isn't all this a reason for more proper practice? Taking a risk of an ND over proper practice seems a little out of balance to me.

For the record, I like having a manual safety, I can't remember ever hearing about an ND where the gun had a manual safety that failed to keep the gun "safe". Of course I've been shooting for decades, and my reason for practicing was CC not competition (sure I enjoy some amiture stuff, but the reason is CC). I do acknowledge your point about practice. Depending on range rules, I include draw or low ready with the safety on, to 1 DA and 2 SA, or 3 SA depending on the gun (first 2 center mass then 1 head), rinse and repeat. While I start with the safety on, it's gotten to the point where I don't even notice when I flip it off.

So ultimately my opinion is (for whatever it's worth) manual safety or DA/SA (carried hammer down), and an absolute ton of practice. Not mag dumps or tight groups (maybe some tight groups), but the first 3 shots over and over and over, until you don't have to think about it, leaving your mind to deal with the "should I shoot" question, and you body "how to shoot". Those first shots are what will matter. And before someone says it, you also need to practice clearing failures and mag changes as separate routines, you don't need to draw, dump 15 rounds, change mags, and dump 15 more. If you think you're going to get into a 30 round gunfight, I'm going to start questioning your judgement, you need to know when getting the F out of there is the way to go.

This is different for a competition shooter, they practice to fit the competition.

But - do you practice correctly with your manual safety handgun?? Do you sweep it off repeatedly as you come up at EVERY practice session?? Do you also practice sweeping it on when you come off target??

I am not saying manual safeties are bad. You seem tomistaking what I'm saying.

I'm saying that if you want to carry a semi-auto with a manual safety

1)you must practice repeatedly with it until it is 110% instinctive.

2) you should only shoot semi-autos with manual safeties - or you risk not taking it of when it matters most.
 
Don, how long did the mistakes delay your shooting?

I think that people choose manual safeties because they think the reduced risk of an ND is of greater value than the reduced risk of a half to one second delay making a deadly difference in a combat situation. The former is a risk every day you carry, while the latter is a risk in the one in a million chance you not only need to shoot, but the delay makes a difference.

It does happen - the guys in the Texas church seemed delayed (2-3 seconds?) by something, and it cost one his life, and it might have caused the 2nd victim his life. But this event probably shows that manual or no manual matters less than (1) did you practice your draw from under clothing enough, and (2) are you in shape, so that you can move when you need to.

I would say the guy in the texas church was a reasonable representation of the problem.

If you squeeze the trigger and nothing happens, you will squeeze it again. Then you will pause and sort things out.

Under the stress of competition with my mind already prepared for the fact that I am about to be shooting a gun, it takes me roughly 2 seconds to recover.

Underthe stress of a real world encounger going from condition green to red in 1/2 second, I'd bet it takes much much longer to 1) squeeze the trigger twice 2) analyze the situation 3) swipe the safety off 4) squeeze the trigger again.

When I was learning to be a pilot, we always took 10 - 15 seconds into account for recognizing a problem before we took corrective action.






So again. Either carry only guns with manual safeties, or don't carry them at all. IMHO





View: https://youtu.be/N1fVL4AQEW8?t=36
 
But - do you practice correctly with your manual safety handgun?? Do you sweep it off repeatedly as you come up at EVERY practice session?? Do you also practice sweeping it on when you come off target??

I am not saying manual safeties are bad. You seem tomistaking what I'm saying.

I'm saying that if you want to carry a semi-auto with a manual safety

1)you must practice repeatedly with it until it is 110% instinctive.

2) you should only shoot semi-autos with manual safeties - or you risk not taking it of when it matters most.
Actually yes I do. It's the point of the routine to make the predictable part into pure habit. Draw, safety off, shoot, that much is going to happen. I practice other posabilities, weak hand etc., but basics come first. The big reason I haven't switched to CC my P365 is that at last practice I did 200 rounds 2 at a time, and slipped when pushing the safety once. That's once too often. Can't remember last time I missed the safety on my Walther or S&W. But I'll get there.

And the need for practice applies whether you have a manual safety or not.
 
I like the p225, it's like a small version of the single stack p220, I guess it didn't sell well
The P225 has been around a long time. Is a compact version of the P220. Originally used by German Police as the P6 It was discontinued then re-issued and now gone again. It is very close in size to the P239 which is also now discontinued. I carried one years ago. Passed it on to my son-in-law then switched to a P239 and now the P365.
 
I would say the guy in the texas church was a reasonable representation of the problem.

If you squeeze the trigger and nothing happens, you will squeeze it again. Then you will pause and sort things out.

Under the stress of competition with my mind already prepared for the fact that I am about to be shooting a gun, it takes me roughly 2 seconds to recover.

Underthe stress of a real world encounger going from condition green to red in 1/2 second, I'd bet it takes much much longer to 1) squeeze the trigger twice 2) analyze the situation 3) swipe the safety off 4) squeeze the trigger again.

When I was learning to be a pilot, we always took 10 - 15 seconds into account for recognizing a problem before we took corrective action.






So again. Either carry only guns with manual safeties, or don't carry them at all. IMHO





View: https://youtu.be/N1fVL4AQEW8?t=36

What guy?
 
Need a Sig but have been gaga for
Glocks lately. The P320 would be a solid carry piece but I’ve heard great things about the P365 and that it’s a good summer carry piece so I’m undecided at the moment, because there’s also the old school P226 to consider.
I have all three, and a 229 and a 220. Have been carrying the 365 for about 6 months now. It is obviously very concealable in an IWB holster. In general, I hate IWB but the 365 is small enough to be comfortable enough, for all day carry, even when very active. I carry a spare mag with the pinky extension, in a horizontal mag carrier, and with 21 rounds of ammo, I never feel like I don't have enough gun.
But it's the performance of the 365 that keeps it on my hip. It is easy to shoot quickly and accurately. The grip is just large enough in my large hands to draw and control well.

Do I prefer to carry a larger gun when I can? Hells yeah. But sometimes it is just not practical.
 
I have all three, and a 229 and a 220. Have been carrying the 365 for about 6 months now. It is obviously very concealable in an IWB holster. In general, I hate IWB but the 365 is small enough to be comfortable enough, for all day carry, even when very active. I carry a spare mag with the pinky extension, in a horizontal mag carrier, and with 21 rounds of ammo, I never feel like I don't have enough gun.
But it's the performance of the 365 that keeps it on my hip. It is easy to shoot quickly and accurately. The grip is just large enough in my large hands to draw and control well.

Do I prefer to carry a larger gun when I can? Hells yeah. But sometimes it is just not practical.
You are indeed the wise Saucrates whom I have read about in my college texts. I actually traded my Beretta 92FS for a Sig P938, and I am extremely happy with the mini 1911 as some have put it. Steel frame, great trigger, easy to draw and successive shots produce tight groupings. The 365 is definitely still on my list because I believe the grip is actually slightly larger than the P938. However, I have to stick with the P938 for the time being.
 
You are indeed the wise Saucrates whom I have read about in my college texts. I actually traded my Beretta 92FS for a Sig P938, and I am extremely happy with the mini 1911 as some have put it. Steel frame, great trigger, easy to draw and successive shots produce tight groupings. The 365 is definitely still on my list because I believe the grip is actually slightly larger than the P938. However, I have to stick with the P938 for the time being.

I have a P238 and P365, but would really like a day or two with a P938 just to see where it stands between the two I have.
 
I have a P238 and P365, but would really like a day or two with a P938 just to see where it stands between the two I have.
We could meet up at the range sometime and swap for a couple targets. The P238 would be a nice cross between the BG380 and P938, but more of a BG380 on steroids. I had the option to trade for it but chose the P938. I am definitely interested in trying the P365.
 
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