Witness to Bank Robbery

[Stellar05]

Ok, so today my wife and I pull in to the bank parking lot and head for the area that takes you around back to the drive up window...
While making our way to the drive up... 3 men with hooded sweatshirts and hoods up were heading for the front door of the bank...

It looked like the 3 men were going in to rob the bank... sure enough,
as we pull around the the driveup... the man in the truck in front of us, who had a clear view of the robbery through the driveup window, confirmed that the bank was being robbed, he had already called 911 and we heard the sirens, and also screams coming from inside the bank from the tellers microphone... it was an unsettling experience... the assailants made it out the front door and down the street on foot before being apprehended by local police...

My question... what if we had been inside the bank...??\
I usually carry concealed...
What would you do in a situation like that>?

We were safe in the car outside, however it made me think about how easily I could have been inside... and again, I usually carry into the bank even though I know we aren't supposed to... It's not like I was about to run into the bank and be a hero, or run after them etc... but had I been inside I wonder what the right thing to do is, or what I would have done...

It turns out the men, were 3 young black men and were according to early reports "un armed"..

Please post your thoughts!

 

[Bruce for NH State Rep]

I usually carry concealed even though I am by law supposed to lock the firearm in the car?

Are banks off-limits in MA? I've been away long enough now for me to forget all that crap.

Needless to say, I carry every time I go the __________.

 

[Bruce for NH State Rep]

"I swear, officer, I never saw them coming. I was just making my way through the drive-up ATM, when...POW...these three guys bounce right off my grill!"

 

[Stellar05]

From reading... I am under the impression there is a list of places that are off limits... I am not even sure locking in the car is ok, I think some of them consider possesion on premisses a no-go... like banks, post office, any other federal property, state parks, oh and the most important... schools... however it wouldnt be a bad idea to allow teachers to open carry...

 

[PSS]

as far as i know bamks are ok to carry in.as long as it's conceled.unless it's a federal reserve.that's off limits

 

[Big_Red]

As far as I know banks are not "gun free" zones so there is nothing prohibiting you from CCW while inside. The only one I would be weary of is the Federal Reserve bank, although I am not sure if it is an actual bank accessible to the public.

*** I see I am late on the trigger and usp45nut beat me to it ***

 

[Stellar05]

So what if you were IN the bank?
What action is legal to take?
If unarmed.... probably none... right?
If armed and shooting... would you be in your right pull a Jack Bauer on them?

 

[PSS]

i think it's only cool to do the jack bauer if yours or someone elses life is in danger.if they just rob the bank you are not supposed to draw down on them.

 

[pipmaster1971]

Speaking personally unless your life (or someone else's) is threatened I wouldn't do a thing. The bank is insured for all losses, and probably wouldn't thank you if you did help.

Plus in MA you'd probably be in a world of legal hurt. It's sad you have to be like that, but that's 21st century MA for you.

 

[Bruce for NH State Rep]

would you be in your right pull a Jack Bauer on them?

As in, shooting unarmed individuals?

Never recommended. Most bank robberies are "Here's a note. Fill the bag."

If there was no weapon displayed, you'd have a hard time convincing the authorities they posed an imminent threat to cause death or grievous bodily harm - or however that's worded in the law.

Even drawing your weapon to detain them in a citizen's arrest would likely land you in deep doo-doo. Especially in the Criminal-Coddling Comfort Zone of Massachusetts. Remember, the word "right" takes on a whole new meaning in Kennedy Kountry.

OK, never mind. I just re-read the previous post. If the BG's are armed and shooting, and you have a clear shot, take it. F*** whatever some idiot CoP might do to your LTC. If they revoke it, revoke your residency and move up here.

 

[Big_Red]

if they just rob the bank you are not supposed to draw down on them.

Unless they are waving guns around and you feel your in an immediate dange of grave bodily harm or death.

 

[PSS]

that is what i meant to say.red.you are right

 

[Big Daddy 45acp]

If they are robbing the bank and not putting you or your wife in immediate jeopardy, let them go.

The money is insured and we'd rather have you in one piece. Unless you have extensive training in addressing multiple armed assailants, play it cool.

Now, if they make you lay on the floor and start taking wallets or licenses, then you have to make a decision. This is done in a lot of small robberies, usually not a bank job.

If they start shooting people at random, well a small chance is better than no chance.

The best you can do, is be a good witness. Get a good description and provide it to authorities.

 

[vellnueve]

From reading... I am under the impression there is a list of places that are off limits... I am not even sure locking in the car is ok, I think some of them consider possesion on premisses a no-go... like banks, post office, any other federal property, state parks, oh and the most important... schools... however it wouldnt be a bad idea to allow teachers to open carry...

The only public places that are prohibited by statute in MA are school grounds.

Federal and state buildings may have their own rules.

 

[Stellar05]

Yeah I suppose unless a shot was fired I probably would not do anything, but as soon as someone started shooting, that would be it... I saw a video on utube where a guy came in to rob a conveinient store and a patron drew his weapon and demanded the man drop the gun, he just bucked up to the guy guns drawn at each other and kept yelling drop the gun... and the guy did... situation resolved without ever firing... wow... best result you can hope for...

 

[BOBKATT]

If theyre not endangering anyones life with a weapon, keep yours holstered. But as soon as one of them points a gun at someone its time to protect yourself and the innocent lives around you. I'd rather live with the regret of killing a thug who wasn't planning on shooting anyone than with the regret of waiting until little suzies brains are all over the floor for me to use mine. Let the judge say what he wants, but I just saved one of your sons/daughters lives.

 

[depicts]

Stellar05, while your comment may have been innocent, you make a huge mistake posting that you do something you think you shouldn't do on a public forum.

While you can carry in a bank, someone might get the impression you carry when you shouldn't. If you innocently reveal such a thing here, illegal carry, we can't help you and we don't want to know. You should always follow the law, but first you must KNOW the law.

I'd edit my post if I were you. Correct that wrong impression.

 

[dwarven1]

From reading... I am under the impression there is a list of places that are off limits... I am not even sure locking in the car is ok, I think some of them consider possesion on premisses a no-go... like banks, post office, any other federal property, state parks, oh and the most important... schools... however it wouldnt be a bad idea to allow teachers to open carry...

Stellar05, sounds like you've been listening to gun dealers and cops for advice on where to carry.

The only places in MA that are off limits are Schools and any place you have to pass a metal detector run by the state (courts, airport security zones, etc). Banks? No problem. (I would make sure you're not printing, though!) Post Offices? there's some discussion about that due to the way the law is worded, and it's never been tested in a court of law - you can read up in the Mass gun law forum for particulars.

Spend some time reading that forum; this has been hashed out repeatedly there and you'll find references to the exact laws, excerpts from various laws and discussion on how they're applied.

As for shooting up the three young opportunists... Well, that depends. Were you in fear of your life of great bodily harm? Were you afraid for your wife's life or that she was in danger of harm? if you can say yes, then you would be justified. Since you were in the car, you would NOT be justified in going in and shooting - leave that for the police; your sidearm is for your defense.

You may want to consider taking GOAL's Art of Concealed Carry - it's a one evening course taught by our own JGreen (GOAL's Director of Education) and our own Cross-X (noted firearms attorney Darius Arbabi). It's only about $60 or so for GOAL members (you ARE a GOAL member, right? If not, why not?) and worth every penny - they'll answer all the questions you posed in your post, for starters.

Welcome to NES, BTW, and thanks for going green. Hope to meet you at a shoot or a meet & greet someday.

 

[Stellar05]

Exactly, I guess I'm not doing anything wrong then...

Even if it was wrong to carry into a bank, I don't have a problem doing it...
and I don't have a problem with anyone knowing either...

 

[Stellar05]

10-4 on the GOAL's Art of Concealed Carry
- Mr. Green is a very dedicated and knowledgable individual, can't say enought good things about GOAL either!
Thanks for the tip!
How about the IDPA>?

 

[dwarven1]

Even if it was wrong to carry into a bank, I don't have a problem doing it...
and I don't have a problem with anyone knowing either...

BZZZT!! That is the WRONG ANSWER. And liable to get you A) arrested and B)denied from ever owning a gun again.

Trust me, you do NOT want anyone to find out that you're carrying in this state - there are people who've lost their LTCs for allowing a coat to swing open and reveal to the world that they're armed.

Seriously... go to www.goal.org and sign up for the next Art of Concealed Carry class. You will be glad you did. Here's the link: http://www.thegoalfoundation.org/courseschedule.htm and it looks like the next class is on August 28th.

Never took the IDPA class; just jumped in with both feet several years ago when Chris started the IDPA program at Riverside Gun Club.

 

[stinx]

the money is insured and will be replaced. Your life may be insured but it can never be replaced. Be a good witness for the Police. I would only resort to my firearm if the robbers where about cause seroius bodily harm/death to myself or someone else,If not then let em go

 

[gene]

Given the fact that they try to hang the police as often as they can for shooting someone who is unarmed in an apprehension situation even when they might think he or she is, what possible chance do you think you might have with a concealed weapon in a non life threatening guns a blazing situation. No guns showing! More than likely you would be in the cell right next to them. After they got through raping you with a civil suit. Very Sad!

 

[depicts]

where is the troll icon?

 

[BOBKATT]

While you can carry in a bank, someone might get the impression you carry when you shouldn't. If you innocently reveal such a thing here, illegal carry, we can't help you and we don't want to know. You should always follow the law, but first you must KNOW the law.

I'd edit my post if I were you. Correct that wrong impression.

I agree with you on this. It is our right, and is in my opinion in our best interest to decide not to give advice that encourages illegal behavior. Although, I do not believe we should edit the truth if the truth is that a law is being broken.

If you are carrying when you are not allowed to under MA law then that is a subject that should be discussed as is any other. However, if you are indeed allowed to carry under that law, and as is stated above you are giving the wrong impression you should address that.

For example: A woman that I work with has a restricted license. She carries upon occasion where she would be deemed in violation of the restrictions of her license. I do not advise her to do this as it is illegal. I can only advise her to seek a legal means of obtaining a non-restricted permit. I do however accept what she does as I accept what anyone else does who has an ALP license. In my opinion, and I believe Ted Nugent puts it best, "The second ammendment is my carry permit". Yes, I know hes crazy. But hes right.

 

[Stellar05]

Its scary to think that you even have to go through a question and answer in your own mind about what you could and more importantly would do... I know I would never draw my firearm or fire a shot, unless a shot was fired... that is just my decision, or breaking point... you know>?

 

[Bruce for NH State Rep]

But as soon as one of them points a gun at someone its time to protect yourself and the innocent lives around you.

Personally, I would revise that to read "...it's time to protect yourself and those under your care (spouse, children, etc.)".

As for the other customers in the bank, sure it would be nice to save them all and be a hero, but if lead starts flying and I'm backed up against an emergency exit, I'm grabbing the kids and GTFO.

The safety of the other customers is their individual responsibility. If they cede that responsibility to the state (i.e. adopt the "Lie down and wait to die" method of self-defense), that's not my problem.

 

[BOBKATT]

The safety of the other customers is their individual responsibility. If they cede that responsibility to the state (i.e. adopt the "Lie down and wait to die" method of self-defense), that's not my problem.

I suppose I haven't thought of it like that. You are right about that, and I do agree. I just feel that doing what is legally right in a life in death situation isn't as important to me as doing what is morally right. If the legality of the situation were to take priority over what I am to do morally than I truly have become one of the sheep. Albeit, a super sheep if you will, because I am after all atleast doing SOMETHING.

 

[Martlet]

I suppose I haven't thought of it like that. You are right about that, and I do agree. I just feel that doing what is legally right in a life in death situation isn't as important to me as doing what is morally right. If the legality of the situation were to take priority over what I am to do morally than I truly have become one of the sheep. Albeit, a super sheep if you will, because I am after all atleast doing SOMETHING.

Having family changes things. However, if the shooting starts and I have an opportunity, I'm putting the BG down. I couldn't live with anything else.

 

[BOBKATT]

If they cede that responsibility to the state (i.e. adopt the "Lie down and wait to die" method of self-defense), that's not my problem.

I am jealous of your freestate way of thinking, one day I hope that I too will be able to feel that way, because it is the right way. However, in this sorry excuse for a state the majority of the people have been forced to legaly forfeit their ownership of responsibility for their own lives and safety. It's called "may issue" and the cheif can, and in most cases will, restrict what you do and where you go with your CCW.