Woke Wall St. - how to kill industries - ESG

One could argue that ESG companies are set to benefit from their cozy relationships with the Democrat party in the form of federal contracts and subsidies. But it's a weak argument considering that even with all the subsidies, these companies have an overwhelming track record of financial failure.

BTW, I was involved in the creation of the first leveraged syndicated loan sold to institutional investors other than banks, about 20 years ago.


That's pretty cool. are/were you and i-banker?
 
Sounds like a continuation/expansion of the anti-South Africa (aka. anti-apartheid) and anti-Israel (aka. anti-Zionist) movements.

WRT to investing in private prison companies, and some other industries, I can easily see them being highly risky investments given the politically charged nature of the businesses (ex. Biden's recent EO banning private prisons from the federal system), without even considering their morality.
 
ESG is the latest craze. It reminds me of the exotic instrument craze of the mid-2000s that resulted in the 2008 financial fiasco. Similar to the early 2000's hedge fund craze. Back then there was something like 45,000 hedge funds. They were completely unregulated and all but 3000-4000 survived. I remember some hedge funds were nothing but a fella betting on horses or some craziness like that.
..or the carbon trading craze.
Point is, ESG is a fad that will go away as soon as the next "big thing" which I think the GameStop situation might be. You see, everyone has figured out how to "shake a tree" on the way down. Now, there aren't that many methodologies to "shake the tree" on the way up. So far, the only trick guaranteed to work when market is going up is illegal(look up the definition of "Ponzi scheme").

I am a data scientist. I work with ESG data. What makes ESG more evil than everything that came before it is the fact that there is NO regulation as to what attributes to assign to entities(stocks, countries, or companies). For example, who do you think assigns to every Israeli company an attribute "supporting apartheid"? Not the bankers! They BUY the data from data firms that are not regulated in any way or using any form of a common methodology. For example, I just spent a week trying to combine ESG data from 4 data provider companies so I could have a full picture. Today, I found out that next week we are getting two more "ESG data providers". I wouldn't be surprised if one of these "data providers" is a Kremlin entity.
 
ESG is the latest craze. It reminds me of the exotic instrument craze of the mid-2000s that resulted in the 2008 financial fiasco. Similar to the early 2000's hedge fund craze. Back then there was something like 45,000 hedge funds. They were completely unregulated and all but 3000-4000 survived. I remember some hedge funds were nothing but a fella betting on horses or some craziness like that.
..or the carbon trading craze.
Point is, ESG is a fad that will go away as soon as the next "big thing" which I think the GameStop situation might be. You see, everyone has figured out how to "shake a tree" on the way down. Now, there aren't that many methodologies to "shake the tree" on the way up. So far, the only trick guaranteed to work when market is going up is illegal(look up the definition of "Ponzi scheme").

I am a data scientist. I work with ESG data. What makes ESG more evil than everything that came before it is the fact that there is NO regulation as to what attributes to assign to entities(stocks, countries, or companies). For example, who do you think assigns to every Israeli company an attribute "supporting apartheid"? Not the bankers! They BUY the data from data firms that are not regulated in any way or using any form of a common methodology. For example, I just spent a week trying to combine ESG data from 4 data provider companies so I could have a full picture. Today, I found out that next week we are getting two more "ESG data providers". I wouldn't be surprised if one of these "data providers" is a Kremlin entity.

Hedge funds were something else. I know a guy who when he wrapped up his career in special forces, he joined a company 100% made of similar vets, who sold hedge funds. It was cool, basically day 1 he had a nice apartment setup by them, nice car, made tons of $$, and I mean tons. The funny thing was this particular person, although he seriously was like a real life Rocky personified, he wasn't qualified (be it due to lack of interest or otherwise) to balance a checkbook. Maybe the other guys were, I don't know, but with him it was a really strange gig.
 
SO what I don't get is, if it's a free market, why wouldn't other investors jump in to provide this credit or whatever that the woke investors are
declining to invest in, and get the value that has been left on the table so to speak?
 
The companies would rather pay lip service and draft a few policies and processes then suffer the hit to their stock price.
 
SO what I don't get is, if it's a free market, why wouldn't other investors jump in to provide this credit or whatever that the woke investors are
declining to invest in, and get the value that has been left on the table so to speak?

It's fear. What if they all band together? Then you're royally F'd.

I recall listening to a CEO series on a podcast a year or two ago. I was DUMBFOUNDED at how much time a CEO spends a day talking to large/activist investors/analysts. Good thing I'm not in charge. "Get bent. Buy my stock or not. I've got a company to run. I'll turn you over to a minion if you want or just hang up now. How about 40 guys like you call you every day so you can't get your F'ing job done!?"

And it's fear. Fear that somehow an activist will go ape-poopy or an analyst will reco selling the stock. Sorry. The bottom line of the success/failure of a CEO is net income. Period.

I'm betting Warren Buffett doesn't spend time every day talking to analysts and activists. He goes and runs his company, drives his 400 year old truck and naps.
 
ESG is a scam. Everyone has different beliefs. And it isn’t like little old me not buying GE stock is going to affect anything.
I worked at a Boston-based investment bank considered #1 or #2 in ESG. I was there when they were creating their ESG investment "product"(more like garbage). They used social scores from European companies that did not specify how they calculated the scores These were private companies that hid their ownership information. In other words, investment(or de-investment) decisions were abdicated entirely to some hidden puppet masters that dictated which companies to divest or invest. One can only imagine the way one can control world markets when you have full control investment money lever.
I quit that company having worked there for 28 years. I said goodbye to my career because I could not be part of the corrupt destruction of America. I now work for a startup that wants to wrestle control of small-medium business loan decisions from banks and give it to the people. Sorta like the Robin Hood app but for loans.
 
Best thing I see - funniest anyhow - is people who put SOME of their money in ESG because "they care about the world."

Bullshit. If you cared, you'd put ALL of your money in ESG. These same people drink water from those little bottles but they RECYCLE the little bottles so it's OK.

I called one client on it once. We sold her ESG and she never spoke of it again. My reasoning was, "Let's make as much $ as possible and use that to support the causes you care about." In 10 years, she's NEVER looked for more $ to support her liberal causes. 100% of the money is for her. (and her family - but not homeless biracial lesbians or anything.)
 
ESG investing is just another way to fleece the muppets and destroy their/our wealth. Equity invested in a failed business is destroyed. Misallocated capital is destroyed.

So-called Green Power is only possible with heavy and continuing subsidies. ESG is a way of subsidizing a set of uneconomic industries and businesses with your retirement savings so the Fedrah Gubmint doesn't have to do it directly.
 
If ESG is losing money, then someone else is making it. Hmmm, maybe I need to talk to my financial advisor regarding anti-ESG investing.
 
While I really like the concept of this fund, it appears to have lost less than the ESG's rather than posting a gain. Article says fossil fuels are a focus of the MAGA fund, so why isn't it up? We are killing it this year with oil stocks.
 
I am so tired of this ESG bullsh*t altrady.

Company made us watch some training video on why this stuff is awesome. So lame.
I would think fiduciary responsibility would trump any funds prioritizing environmental/social issues with investing people's money unless folks signed off on it. Fine for individual investors but public or private funds would be very problematic.
 
I am so tired of this ESG bullsh*t altrady.

Company made us watch some training video on why this stuff is awesome. So lame.

It ebbs and flows. Has done so for hte last 30 years. I recall when Calvert (I think) and. . . . . . . oh gosh. I can't think of the other big name in it back then. My brain keeps thinking SoGen but that isn't right. That was the firm run by the Frog. Smart Frog.

But ESG gets its' warm-fuzzies then goes away only to come back again later.

Best is this stupid ESG S&P500 "fund" you can create. I saw Schwab's model b/c I house my client assets at Schwab. "The client can customize which S&P500 stocks they own." Honestly. Like that is an investment strategy. In the end, when the client is getting their ass handed to them, they're going to blame YOU, not themselves for picking stupid companies.

Trying to succeed financially based on buying stocks on how you FEEL about the companies is trying to find the best present at a White Elephant type gift exchange based on the prettiest wrapping paper.
 
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