03 FFL C&R Massachusetts

[milktree]

Here is the part of C&R qualification that gets ignored by many:

"Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event."

Many people get stuck on the 50 years old qualifier and seem to not understand that brand new guns are also qualified if they fall under section 3.

I fully understand that, and I wouldn’t treat a new gun as a C&R unless it was explicitly listed in the C&R book published by the ATF.

50 years is always valid, so it’s really easy to evaluate.

 

[LuvDog]

Here is the part of C&R qualification that gets ignored by many:

"Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event."

Many people get stuck on the 50 years old qualifier and seem to not understand that brand new guns are also qualified if they fall under section 3.

Yup. So far, I've never had anyone willing to follow this part of the qualification

 

[paul73]

50 years old now is 1974, and it will keep opening up a TON of inventory.
i would speculate that ATF will throw a monkey wrench to adjust this req to be a 100 years old soon.

 

[Wickedcoolname]

Yup. So far, I've never had anyone willing to follow this part of the qualification

I did. Eentually. I was trying to buy a Bill Ruger NRA endowment, special edition, etc, Ruger Mark one or two or whatever it was.
I think I was rejected by 3 or 4 FFLs before I found one who would ship one to me.

 

[Wickedcoolname]

I fully understand that, and I wouldn’t treat a new gun as a C&R unless it was explicitly listed in the C&R book published by the ATF.

50 years is always valid, so it’s really easy to evaluate.

See, that right there is the problem. There are three qualifiers that constitute a C&R and many dealers only recognize two.
We are voluntarily nullifying a third of the reasons to have the license.

 

[MGnoob]

Here is the part of C&R qualification that gets ignored by many:

"Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event."

Many people get stuck on the 50 years old qualifier and seem to not understand that brand new guns are also qualified if they fall under section 3.

That’s why I’m pretty sure I could own a cane gun or any other novelty. You just can’t carry it.

 

[milktree]

See, that right there is the problem. There are three qualifiers that constitute a C&R and many dealers only recognize two.
We are voluntarily nullifying a third of the reasons to have the license.

My memory of the rules when I got my C&R was that a gun had to be more than 50 years old, or in the book. You couldn't just say, "I'm spending more than I should for this because it's weird", it had to be designated at a C&R by the ATF.

 

[KBCraig]

Here is the part of C&R qualification that gets ignored by many:

"Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event."

Many people get stuck on the 50 years old qualifier and seem to not understand that brand new guns are also qualified if they fall under section 3.

Only upon determination by FATD, or with a certification letter from a museum that specializes in such.

 

[Wickedcoolname]

My memory of the rules when I got my C&R was that a gun had to be more than 50 years old, or in the book. You couldn't just say, "I'm spending more than I should for this because it's weird", it had to be designated at a C&R by the ATF.

Your memory is incorrect.
This is the exact wording.
"Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event."

 

[milktree]

Your memory is incorrect.
This is the exact wording.
"Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event."

Huh.

It goes on:

Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

Reading this as regular English reads you can’t just declare it, some sort of proof is required, and provides a way to do so.

All those words to say, “you can provide proof if you want to, but it’s not required” would be a strange reading.

27 CFR § 478.11 | eRegulations

regulations.atf.gov

Further, this:

However, if you wish for a classification of your particular firearm under categories 2 or 3 above and wish your item to be listed, you may submit the weapon to the Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division (FATD) for a formal classification.

Also implies that a firearm must be classified before you can treat it as a C&R.

Curios & Relics | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

A regulation implementing federal firearms laws, 27 CFR § 478.11, defines curio or relic (C&R) firearms as those which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons.

www.atf.gov

Yes, “if you wish…” can mean, “you don’t have to for it to qualify as a C&R”, but it could also mean, “there’s no requirement to register all C&R guns, but if you want C&R treatment for your less than 50 year old gun, there’s an option.”

I couldn’t find anywhere that says a <50 year old gun must be in the published list of C&R guns to qualify as a C&R, but I didn’t look too hard. (Typing on my phone)

 

[mac1911]

Hey all,

New member here, was looking for some info pertaining to the C&R FFL. I was wondering what benefits it brings as an LTC holder. I know some of the Colt Sporter SP1’s are over 50 years old so they qualify but I was wondering if there are any other terms for the firearm to qualify other than what’s on the atf website.

Also can this weapon still fire? Or does it have to be neutered?

Thanks guys!

I get the C&R as it still gets defent discounts from vendors. Reminds me have to up date some accounts as I just got my renewal.

 

[BigGreen2000]

Yes.

ATF is clear that receivers are not C&R, but if that stripped 1903 is restored to "original military configuration", it can be transferred as C&R.

So since the start of this post, I emailed ATF re: stripped receivers and restoring to C&R status. They would have to be restored with all-original, period-correct parts. In other words, ‘as-issued’ condition. No after-market barrels allowed, even if original caliber. Swapping a Garand barrel from .30-06 to 308 voids the C&R status. Drill rifles, even if complete, are not C&R because they are not ‘in original condition.’