.22 Long vs. .22 Long Rifle

milktree

milktree

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I just picked up a 1926 Pieper Bayard Herstal semi-semi-auto rifle[1], in what I think is .22 Long.

It's marked ".22L", but the 'net says it's either 22 short; or .22 short, long, or long rifle, depending on .... I have no idea.

How terrible an idea is it to use .22LR in it?


[1] or maybe it's full auto bolt action. Or Half-automatic. It's a semi-auto with last round bolt-hold-open, and no magazine. Or a single shot blowback. Each shot will eject the case and lock the bolt open, you press a button on the left side and the bolt closes and you can fire again. But no magazine.
 
i don't believe a 22LR will chamber in a rifle marked .22Long. kinda like trying to chamber a .357 in a .38. not 100% sure on this though.
 
If it says 22L and not 22short,long and LR it will shoot
Shorts and longs fine.
22 LONG has a different bullet profile. Your rifle might chamber a LR but the bullet might be hard pressed into the rifling giving potential of elevated chamber pressure.

If it's a semi auto it may cycle shorts it may not.
Pics of the rifle, is it semi auto or just a self ejecting self cocking single shot? Strange o!d guns those peppers
 
mac1911 said:
If it says 22L and not 22short,long and LR it will shoot
Shorts and longs fine.
22 LONG has a different bullet profile. Your rifle might chamber a LR but the bullet might be hard pressed into the rifling giving potential of elevated chamber pressure.

If it's a semi auto it may cycle shorts it may not.
Pics of the rifle, is it semi auto or just a self ejecting self cocking single shot? Strange o!d guns those peppers
Click to expand...
I saw a video demo on an old rifle like this forgot the model. It was a "single shot" with a blow back design that just ejected the fired shell and locked the bolt to the rear......then you insert another single carteridge and release the bolt to chamber it......rinse and repeat. Very strange design.
 
The case is the same on the long and the long rifle.

The bullet on a 22 Long is typically a 29-grain bullet and usually these barels are a 1 in 25” twist. Whereas the LR uses a 40-grain bullet with typical barrel twist of 1 in 16”.

And YES, some 22L chambers will chamber a 22LR bullet.

I have a Schuetzen 22 Long by Harry Pope and use 22 Shorts, whenever I can’t get longs. But this is a single shot 1885 high wall, so a repeating shot is not possible/necessary, haha! Unless manually done fast!
 
.22 long has got to be pricey. Where the Hell do you buy .22 long ammo?
Shorts and LR I can find all day long...

Also, can a .22 long chamber be reamed to accept .22LR? (on non-collector guns, of course)
 
Since .22 short, .22 long, and .22 LR are all heeled bullets, how do the chambers differ?
 
Last edited:
The 22 Long and 22 Long Rifle may share the same length case, and many 22 Longs may chamber a 22LR round, but there are some major differences to be aware of.

BULLET - The typical bullet weight for the 22 Long is 29-grains, whereas the typical bullet on the 22LR is 40-grains. In some tight Long chambers, the bigger bullet may not enter or will engrave the rifling if you forced it in (many 22 Longs are single shots).

BARREL TWIST - Barrels of 22 Long caliber usually have the same slow twist as 22 Short barrels, e.g., 1 turn in 22 to 25” or so. Long Rifles use a much faster 1 in 16” twist.

Sometimes you can use a LR in a Long chamber, but I would ONLY use standard velocity loads if doing this, would not advise it for an antique or collectible arm and this may not work for semi-autos. It may be fine for plinking or accuracy to 50’ or 25-yards, but you will see accuracy degrade at longer distances, even less than 50-yards ... due to the slower twist barrel just cannot stabilize the heavier bullet. And there’s no way the slower twist will stabilize high velocity 22LR loads.

FWIW, I use 22 match ‘shorts’ in my 22 Long Schuetzen 1885 high wall, wearing a barrel by the famed Harry Pope. They work well!
 
whacko said:
I saw a video demo on an old rifle like this forgot the model. It was a "single shot" with a blow back design that just ejected the fired shell and locked the bolt to the rear......then you insert another single carteridge and release the bolt to chamber it......rinse and repeat. Very strange design.
Click to expand...

There was a Winchester 55 that was like this - pretty neat gun. I had it for years and eventually got rid of it because I never used it. But it was fun telling people about my automatic single shot.
 
milktree said:
er... that SAAMI link shows the .22 Long and .22 Long Rifle chambers as identical.
Click to expand...
correct the chambers are but often if you stuff a 22lr into a 22 long the bullet will engage the rifling before it chambers.
OAL of a 22long is .888 LR is 1.00

on a old well work rifle may not matter much. the barrel twist will be something along the lines of 1:20 for a dedicated 22 long vs 1:14 1:16 for the lr.

chamber one and see if you get and hard chambering or extraction issues then look for marks on the bullet?
 
Lefty38-55 said:
The 22 Long and 22 Long Rifle may share the same length case, and many 22 Longs may chamber a 22LR round, but there are some major differences to be aware of.

BULLET - The typical bullet weight for the 22 Long is 29-grains, whereas the typical bullet on the 22LR is 40-grains. In some tight Long chambers, the bigger bullet may not enter or will engrave the rifling if you forced it in (many 22 Longs are single shots).

BARREL TWIST - Barrels of 22 Long caliber usually have the same slow twist as 22 Short barrels, e.g., 1 turn in 22 to 25” or so. Long Rifles use a much faster 1 in 16” twist.

Sometimes you can use a LR in a Long chamber, but I would ONLY use standard velocity loads if doing this, would not advise it for an antique or collectible arm and this may not work for semi-autos. It may be fine for plinking or accuracy to 50’ or 25-yards, but you will see accuracy degrade at longer distances, even less than 50-yards ... due to the slower twist barrel just cannot stabilize the heavier bullet. And there’s no way the slower twist will stabilize high velocity 22LR loads.

FWIW, I use 22 match ‘shorts’ in my 22 Long Schuetzen 1885 high wall, wearing a barrel by the famed Harry Pope. They work well!
Click to expand...
Used to hear people say you can run spit balls through a Pope barrel and still win
 
milktree said:
er... that SAAMI link shows the .22 Long and .22 Long Rifle chambers as identical.
Click to expand...
the chamber is not the issue. the barrel throat is the issue. If you stuff the longer bullet in a barrel lead that's too short for it, it increases pressure, which might result in a blown case rim and hot gases and brass fragments in your face/eyes. The slower twist of the .22long barrel will probably keyhole .22lr bullets, meaning no accuracy. You can get CCI long CB caps and fire them safely, but they wont work an auto's action.
 
bilra said:
the chamber is not the issue. the barrel throat is the issue.
Click to expand...

OK, let's try again:

Here's the SAAMI pages 13, 14, and 15 that show the chambers, including the throat, for .22 Long, .22 Long Rifle Match, and .22 Long Rifle Sporting.

I can't see *any* difference between Long, and Long Rifle Sporting. What am I missing?

 
that might be the case. They may well have stopped bothering to chamber the .22 long any differently. It probably depends upon how old his gun is. The chambering doesn't address the rifling twist problem, but I"ve turned in some very fine groups with CB's in a Winchester 52, but if it's got the slower twist rate for the long, then you might well get keyholing Some have reported such with the Subsonic 60 gr Aguila .22 ammo in normal 1 in 16" twist. Longer bullets require faster rates of rifling twists. Could always tie it to a tree, fire it with a string and then look carefull at the fired casing, to see if there's indications of excessive pressure.
 
I haven't seen a box of .22L at any local shops for a long time. I used to shoot them often out of my .22LR rifles while out in the woods, as they are somewhat quieter than .22LR. I think I still have a box of CCI .22L in one of my ammo crates. Now I have to go check tonight. ;)
 
milktree said:
OK, let's try again:

Here's the SAAMI pages 13, 14, and 15 that show the chambers, including the throat, for .22 Long, .22 Long Rifle Match, and .22 Long Rifle Sporting.

I can't see *any* difference between Long, and Long Rifle Sporting. What am I missing?

Click to expand...
this is why we say carefully chamber a round. Its been a very long time since any dedicated 22L rifle has been chambered.
Growing up we had a old win 1890 pump 22L, it would not work with the longer bullet on the LR.
 
mac1911 said:
this is why we say carefully chamber a round. Its been a very long time since any dedicated 22L rifle has been chambered.
Growing up we had a old win 1890 pump 22L, it would not work with the longer bullet on the LR.
Click to expand...

I still haven't fired it, I'm trying to get the bolt apart, but I've cleaned everything as well as I can without an ultrasonic cleaner.

A .22LR round drops right into the chamber without any resistance.

Is that an indicator that it's probably safe?
 
Oh, I thought you had a gun which specified .22L, and you were looking for some ammo to use in it. I was just pointing out that this ammo is readily available.

I didn't understand that you were asking if you could use .22LR ammo in a gun marked as .22L.

[scratcheshead]
 

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