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Be sure to enter the NES/Pioneer Valley Arms February Giveaway ***Smith & Wesson SD9VE 9MM***
.45 GAP , your opinion on the round.
- Thread starter Queen Bee
- Start date
Well, that only took 4 pages
Kevin,
Actually, probably more people were shot and killed by the 9mm than any other handgun round in WWII. Don't forget that 9mm was an extremely popular SMG round with both the British and the Germans, both sides used the same ammunition while the .45 ACP saw some use by other Allied Nations through Lend-Lease, the .45 ACP was primarily a US pistol and SMG round and with the exception of perhaps some South American countries such as Brazil in the 1930's and 40's for certain periods of time and briefly Norway, has remained so. 1911 Pistols and THompson and M3 SMGs have been part of military aid packages in the past, but certainly not in large quantities. The M1 carbine and its round has probably seen greater distribution in US military aid programs.
I understand your point that in terms of lethality, the .45 ACP in hardball configuration, is more effective than 9mm military ball. Marshal, Sanow and Ayoob claim, however that in military configuration the effectiveness of 9mm and .45 ACP in terms of stopping power are about the same. This, of course is controversial and people like to go back to the experience of US Forces during the Philippine Insurrection, but the round compared there, was the .38 Long Colt, ballistically a much weaker round than the 9mm. Personally, I would be a lot more comfortable with .45 ACP hardball which I believe has the edge over 9mm hardball, although neither would be my first choice for civilian defense, preferring a hollowpoint round which is much less likely to overpenetrate the target.
I think if it were possible to tally the total number of persons killed by both the 9mm and .45ACP, the 9mm would come out ahead, simply because it was adopted as a standard caliber by much of the world's armies and has been used in virtually every armed conflict, major and minor since 1908.
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Yes it does. But IIRC in an earlier thread, you stated that a .45 pistol hurt your hands. If that is true, then skip the Glocks and go for a heavier 1911.
Yup, when i tried out Aaron's m&p 45 that thing felt like i was hitting my palm, tried out an xd 45. No such recoil smash. I shot 50 rounds nicely. Maybe because of bore axis i can only guess? I know glocks have a low bore axis as well but want to try them all. And i will retest with another M&P as well.
TY43215
NES Member
Yup, some use it in USPSA. Not legal for IDPA/ESR unless you can find a gun that came from the factory in .45 GAP.![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
I really liked the 45 GAP round................................... As a moon clip revolver load. Reloads better, same loading as APC and no one wants your brass
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Still have some brass around somewhere.Other than that, it is a totally useless cartridge.
TY43215
NES Member
Playing with recoil springs can also calm down excessive "Recoil smash". Finding something that fits your hand and the style of shooting you want is first. Then you customize it to you further and make it yours.
Not really that hard. People sit on them for awhile because nobody wants the damned things.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
In free states they laugh at you when you bring a GAP anything in on a trade in. -Mike
- Joined
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I agree with this orginal quote. I would carry more rounds of 9mm before less of .45. Personally I go for .357 sig because its more devistating than both, holds more roudns than .45, and the barrel can be swapped with a .40 barrel which is cheaper to shoot than .45 and has relatively the same energy. One gun, 2 major hard hitting calibers, why not?
NYS police still use .45 GAP, I dont know why. I own an M&P .45 compact thats been great, very comfortable and easy in the hand. I carry it occasionally because I can only carry 10 rds of .40 / .357 / 9mm anyway.
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I am a massive Glock fan. Owned them for over 15 years. Never will get a .45 GAP. Ammo is just not common enough. That is the only reason.
dcmdon
NES Member
Thats so totally wrong. The question was "Gee, why can't I have a .45 ACP glock thats the same size and width as a 9mm glock. "
If you've never handled or shot a .45 glock it won't seem obvious, but the slide on the .45 glocks are HUGE, SQUARE, thick, and ugly. The grip is fat and has a long reach. The GAP brings a .45 cal glock down into the G17 size range.
If you reload, the GAP is a breeze, since dimensionally, its just a short .45 ACP. If you don't reload, then consider ammunition costs seriously. Unless you are getting it as a companion gun to the equivalent 9mm Glock.
Why would the slide on a .45GAP Glock be any different in width or height than the slide on a .45ACP Glock, given that the two rounds are the same diameter and therefore the barrels are the same diameter? Or am I missing something?
I do reload, and I would hate even having GAP brass around, because if any of that crap ever got mixed in with the real .45 ACP brass, I'd be pissed. And no, it's not a breeze because it uses small pistol primers and you have to readjust your dies (or get another toolhead) to reload for it. So now you have to swap the whole press over to small primer AND you need a whole separate toolhead or at least a set of dies preset in order to quickly change over to it. Talk about a pain in the ass.
The only thing that's compatible is the bullets.
I have hands the size of child/girl, and I have a G21SF, a G21 4th gen, and a G30SF... and I can shoot all of them comfortably.
IMHO .45 GAP is still a terrible idea, any way you slice it. The only thing dumber is the jump to conclusions mat, or maybe .25 ACP.
Tom Symkowski talks about buying a .45 GAP.....
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
(well, not really, but might as well be). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlA9bNk3b5Q
-Mike
It is actually bigger, because the GAP guns basically ride on narrow frames the same dimensions as the 9mm/.40 cal glocks... so they just use similar sized slides with bigger holes and breechfaces in them.
The part I don't get is how they can get away with the lower slide mass, but on the other hand the G36 also has a "narrow" slide, with less mass, and it still works. The GAP also runs at higher pressure (most GAP std pressure loads are almost as hot as .45 ACP +P loads out of the box) so maybe it also generates more recoil energy as well, and the slightly shorter OAL would probably aid in feeding, so that might mitigate any slide mass issues.
-Mike
One of the nice things about 45 ACP is that it runs at relatively low pressure. It is a forgiving cartridge to reload. Brass lasts a long time, and you really have to work to blow up a gun.
That is very true. Out of like 5000 pieces of .45 ACP brass, I think I've only had to throw away a dozen cases that had neck splits or splits in the side. Most of the time these were Fioccis. Many of the cases are probaby on their 2nd or 3rd firing, some of the early ones I've probably fired 5 times, and most don't have any significant wear.
That said, .45 GAP is still at relatively low pressure compared to things like .40 S+W, etc. Chamberings like the .45 ACP/GAP have a fair amount of headroom before things start getting hairy.
-Mike
dcmdon
NES Member
My mistake. Here is how it works out:
1.18" is the maximum width of a medium frame(9mm/.40/.357). Their slides are slimmer than the frame.
1.18" is the maximum width of both the frame and the slide on GAP models, which are approximately equal. Also the reason why GAP models are shipped with extended slide stop levers.
1.27" is the maximum width of a large frame(.45ACP/10mm). I would bet the slide of large frame is approximately equal to the GAP models. Most likely to increase the weight of the slide for hotter loads.
Another comparison
Glock 21 .45 ACP Glock 37 .45 GAP
Magazine Thickness 1.15 inch 0.904 inch
Grip Circumference 7.75 inches 7.375 inches
Grip Thickness 1.292 inches 1.182 inches
Grip Front to Back 2.155 inches 2.08 inches
Trigger Reach 2.938 inches 2.793 inches
Barrel Length 4.605 inches 4.59 inches
My 5'1" wife shoots my G34 just fine. She could not get a good grip on my old G20.
Don
1.18" is the maximum width of a medium frame(9mm/.40/.357). Their slides are slimmer than the frame.
1.18" is the maximum width of both the frame and the slide on GAP models, which are approximately equal. Also the reason why GAP models are shipped with extended slide stop levers.
1.27" is the maximum width of a large frame(.45ACP/10mm). I would bet the slide of large frame is approximately equal to the GAP models. Most likely to increase the weight of the slide for hotter loads.
Another comparison
Glock 21 .45 ACP Glock 37 .45 GAP
Magazine Thickness 1.15 inch 0.904 inch
Grip Circumference 7.75 inches 7.375 inches
Grip Thickness 1.292 inches 1.182 inches
Grip Front to Back 2.155 inches 2.08 inches
Trigger Reach 2.938 inches 2.793 inches
Barrel Length 4.605 inches 4.59 inches
My 5'1" wife shoots my G34 just fine. She could not get a good grip on my old G20.
Don
