a 22lr ammo comparison for cz457 mtr varmint

[paul73]

so, as i do not have a vudoo yet that shoots any shitty loads through a same hole at a klick distance simultaneously spurring rainbows from its buttstock - i need to confirrm my baseline from time to time. mostly because i got 2 cases of newish norma tac22 in red boxes and wanted to confirm if it is still kosher.

gun is the cz 457 mtr varmint 20" wooden stock with a 3-18x PA scope, MRAD Athena reticle. zeroed for 50yds on tac-22, shot at 100yds at 1.8 mrad.

pictures should be self-evident.
as of comments:
all shots were groups of 10, all shot with a bipod and stock bag. only exception was a group 1 on the second picture - 7 or 8 there.

i was quite appalled by results from (4) - norma match22. dunno what is wrong with it. it sucked.
i was quite surprised, as i recall it to be fine before. so, after that group 4 on the first picture i shot a test group 1 on the second picture, to confirm it was not a gun or higher powers.
then after all the shots were done on pictures 1-2 i got other box of it and retried it as shown on the 3rd picture - but it is still remained what it was, a stringy sucky odd stuff with POI way down to the left. on a box it says same speed as tac-22, go figure.

aguila se is not subsonic, but shot as expected - sorta there, but, not always quite. 6 were together very tight, while 4 went scouting around, typical for it.

of new tryouts the SK loads were merely there, the biathlon notably better than a standard plus, but, at the 20c per round - norma still rules.
sk standard plus kinda sucked, as can be seen, both POI wise and grouping wise.

my to go round there remains good old norma tac-22, new (1) and old (6). right now it is still available online at 7.2c and 7.4c per round.
old (6) still seems to be better than a new (1). also while claimed to be same on the box, the speed of (6) seems to be lower than (1).

 

[DW357]

Nice.
Sounds like you're ready for a rimfire PRS match

 

[paul73]

Nice.
Sounds like you're ready for a rimfire PRS match

rifle is for sure capable, as of me shooting it from the barricade with no supports - is a different story. if time permits, of course, will see how will fall go.
i was mostly curious to see how will SK ammo perform in that gun, and now i`ve seen it.

i also was thinking about getting a harrell barrel tuner for it, but looking at groups 1 and 6 not sure now if it would be of any significant improvement over what it is now. plus their web site is still broken.

 

[MC56]

did you clean the barrel between brands? can't really say the SK didn't shoot well if you put a bunch of avg Norma and copper plated Aguila through it first...

 

[paul73]

did you clean the barrel between brands? can't really say the SK didn't shoot well if you put a bunch of avg Norma and copper plated Aguila through it first...

i did clean it before picture 2. in the beginning it was also clean, and 10 shots through the clean gun do not make it dirty.
in real life i am not going to clean that gun neither between brands nor in the middle of the shoot. i do not need to say anything about SK - the results speak for themselves.

and as i NEVER saw anybody to actually prove that SK hype - for me it is now a settled fact.

 

[LuvDog]

wow. your rifle definitely doesn't like that norma match.

What about CCI SV and Aquila SV

 

[paul73]

What about CCI SV and Aquila SV

they were way inferior, i went over that before. neither subsonic cci nor 1200fps never grouped great there, it would be inferior to aguila se, so i did not bother to do it now.

i plink cci minimags through the 22lr ar i have.

i regretfully forgot at home 3 packs of eley i had, but they historically were a bit better than norma for me, so, i would expect them to keep working well.

dunno where the heck i got that match22 from nor when. odd stuff, but thankfully i only had 6 or 8 of them. i may have bought them at MFS.

SK biathlon was interesting, as first 3 shots went through same hole both times, but then it deviated and i was very steady shooting it. then POI returned back at the end of the groups, somewhat. still, meh. and it was really slimy, the rounds, i can see how it will work in winter, perhaps.
the proper POI is visible well on a picture 2, group 2 - a 3/4 moa higher than the POA straight up. but 4 shots still stringed to the right.

 

[KMM696]

I've had better results in my Savage MkII with the SK Rifle Match and Long Range Match than I ever got with their Standard Plus or Biathlon. Not notably better than your rifle gets with the Tac-22, though - that cartridge is a keeper!! I should probably find some and try it in mine, never shot Norma's stuff before. Good to see that the Tac-22 liked your rifle through multiple production runs. I've tried a couple that had big deviations from lot to lot, don't like that. I've had very good results with Wolf, but I believe they switched from SK to Eley recently to make their 22LR, so once I shoot through what I have of the SK production, they go back to the untried list.

 

[Mountain]

Interesting how well the Tac-22 shot.

 

[paul73]

Interesting how well the Tac-22 shot.

yep. it is why i run such tests once in a while, to see how barrel deteriorates and where it is groups wise. this is a 3 yr old rifle now, and so far - so good. i will try to not forget eley next time, but all the eley i got is pretty old now, so, probably not a lot of sense to even bother.

with all those 22lr games i just try to establish the reasonable enough point of sufficiency, as there is always a way to spend way more money and get even bettier and grandier stuff, but, it`s good to know what is it you`ve got that is just 'good enough'.

also quite an interesting topic to read on shiperhide about those 22lr barrel tuners - some folks seem to be getting some level of the improvement, while some do not seem to see any gains at all. there is a whole math theorem there as well as how to set those tuners up, seems a bit too much effort to me, at this point.

 

[Mountain]

yep. it is why i run such tests once in a while, to see how barrel deteriorates and where it is groups wise. this is a 3 yr old rifle now, and so far - so good. i will try to not forget eley next time, but all the eley i got is pretty old now, so, probably not a lot of sense to even bother.

with all those 22lr games i just try to establish the reasonable enough point of sufficiency, as there is always a way to spend way more money and get even bettier and grandier stuff, but, it`s good to know what is it you`ve got that is just 'good enough'.

also quite an interesting topic to read on shiperhide about those 22lr barrel tuners - some folks seem to be getting some level of the improvement, while some do not seem to see any gains at all. there is a whole math theorem there as well as how to set those tuners up, seems a bit too much effort to me, at this point.

Honestly, I don't think 22LR really deteriorates barrels assuming decent maintenance. I have an old 513T that is maybe half a century old? Shoots great, excepting the shitty trigger which is what you get with a 513T.

Probably rough cleaning / steel cleaning rods is what wears out a 22LR barrel.

 

[RankAmateur]

yep. it is why i run such tests once in a while, to see how barrel deteriorates and where it is groups wise. this is a 3 yr old rifle now, and so far - so good. i will try to not forget eley next time, but all the eley i got is pretty old now, so, probably not a lot of sense to even bother.

with all those 22lr games i just try to establish the reasonable enough point of sufficiency, as there is always a way to spend way more money and get even bettier and grandier stuff, but, it`s good to know what is it you`ve got that is just 'good enough'.

also quite an interesting topic to read on shiperhide about those 22lr barrel tuners - some folks seem to be getting some level of the improvement, while some do not seem to see any gains at all. there is a whole math theorem there as well as how to set those tuners up, seems a bit too much effort to me, at this point.

Thanks for the results. I have the 457 varmint (non-MTR) version in a chassis. I also found that the SK brand didn't group well for me (3 different kinds). I tried Wolf Match Target, Wolf Match Extra, Aguila Super Extra, CCI Minimags, CCI SV, Blazer, and Federal. All were 40gr round nose. My rifle liked the Federal 40gr LRN best. Welcome result for me as I bought this in the 800 round range packs at ~$65 (8¢) and have thousands and thousands stocked. Not sure why, but I've found .22LR rifles/pistols to be more ammo-specific than any of my other firearms. Each just "likes" a specific one, and I haven't found a .22LR round that works for all.

 

[paul73]

Probably rough cleaning / steel cleaning rods is what wears out a 22LR barrel.

true, but, absolutely everything deteriorates with time. it is just a damn fact. i am very gentle with the precisions guns i have, i usually clean with with brass brushes only, and put a hoppe 9 copper dissolver wet patch on top of the designated brass brush to get copper off, and never ever from the crown side. carbon fiber rods also, only, with brass ends.

that cz specifically is not liking it to be bone dry and clean, though, the groups stabilize as that group 6 on the test after 20-30 rounds shot. and after 300-400 shots it starts getting progressively worse and wants some cleaning.

 

[paul73]

the 457 varmint (non-MTR) version in a chassis.

i still go round and around the idea of pulling that 457 mtr out of wood and placing it into a chassis, but after an every time i shoot it - i kinda feel again of how much i like that wooden stock the cz made for it. it is really damn nice.
not if it would be a big deal to pull it out of chassis and drop back into the original wooden stock, i moved it in and out several time already - but, kinda feels like a futile effort, mostly. may be if i will find a good chassis on a really good sale. but, kinda doubt it. the way it is now is balanced very well and is a pleasure to handle.

 

[KMM696]

I put my Mk II in an on-sale chassis, which has created some internal conflict. It does shoot better in the chassis, but I don't like it as much as when it was wearing it's wood. What I should do is put the work in on the wood stock to get it closer to the chassis accuracy. Or maybe CZ will drop another batch of 457 Varmint lefties on the market, and I can start playing with that. Or fix the 452 that's pressing the barrel against one side of the channel, then maybe that will shoot.

 

[ronrob]

A few years ago Norma Match did not shoot as well as Tac22 out of my Kidd either ,I had pretty good results with Tac in a number of guns too

 

[ronrob]

Also Im not absolutely positive but I would double check about the wisdom of using the Strong copper solvent in your 22 That stuff is pretty strong & may lead to premature wear of barrel and do not think its necessary for the copper deposits from 22 Aquila which has a light copper wash coating , pretty sure its really meant for centerfire Copper Jacketed ,which is totally different from Copper Wash 22 fouling
If you want some real expert opinions go to rimfirecentral forum and you will have the experts opinion

 

[paul73]

Also Im not absolutely positive but I would double check about the wisdom of using the Strong copper solvent in your 22 That stuff is pretty strong & may lead to premature wear of barrel and do not think its necessary for the copper deposits from 22 Aquila which has a light copper wash coating , pretty sure its really meant for centerfire Copper Jacketed ,which is totally different from Copper Wash 22 fouling
If you want some real expert opinions go to rimfirecentral forum and you will have the experts opinion

i kinda agree on that, actually, but, i clean it rarely enough for that to be a factor. after the solvent i run brush and then patches to dry it up, then run a last patch with oil. so it is not getting much (or any) of it left in there.
i think, including this time before this test i cleaned it 3 or 4 times only. so far barrel looks pretty decent.

 

[PatMcD]

The only thing I'd run through a 22 barrel, other than bullets, would be a boresnake. From the chamber end.

My old Anschutz has had probably 50,000 rds through it. I've never "cleaned" the barrel other than snaking it once a year before the season starts. And that's just to clear out powder residue. If changing ammo brands, it may take 10-20 shots before it settles down and shoots as well as it can.
I wouldn't bother with any copper-plated bullets if accuracy is your goal.

Edit: my Anschutz probably has over 100,000 rds through it now that I think about it.

 

[Mountain]

The only thing I'd run through a 22 barrel, other than bullets, would be a boresnake. From the chamber end.

My old Anschutz has had probably 50,000 rds through it. I've never "cleaned" the barrel other than snaking it once a year before the season starts. And that's just to clear out powder residue. If changing ammo brands, it may take 10-20 shots before it settles down and shoots as well as it can.
I wouldn't bother with any copper-plated bullets if accuracy is your goal.

Edit: my Anschutz probably has over 100,000 rds through it now that I think about it.

That's basically how I clean mine, though the 10/22 might need to be snaked a little more often because the Volquartsen barrel jas a tight chamber and it's a semi auto.

 

[RankAmateur]

i still go round and around the idea of pulling that 457 mtr out of wood and placing it into a chassis, but after an every time i shoot it - i kinda feel again of how much i like that wooden stock the cz made for it. it is really damn nice.
not if it would be a big deal to pull it out of chassis and drop back into the original wooden stock, i moved it in and out several time already - but, kinda feels like a futile effort, mostly. may be if i will find a good chassis on a really good sale. but, kinda doubt it. the way it is now is balanced very well and is a pleasure to handle.

The CZ wood of the Varmint (non-MTR) felt "small". Felt like a kid's rifle (to me). Found a Bravo chassis on sale, and it's worked out very well. Of course, I sometimes wish I had found an MTR up front as I would prefer the match chamber, but for casual target shooting out to 200 yds in MA it was plenty adequate. Now living in the hill country of TX, where I find the demands on the rifle at that range and longer to be a bit stiffer. Almost always variable winds on the range here

 

[DW357]

The CZ wood of the Varmint (non-MTR) felt "small". Felt like a kid's rifle (to me). Found a Bravo chassis on sale, and it's worked out very well. Of course, I sometimes wish I had found an MTR up front as I would prefer the match chamber, but for casual target shooting out to 200 yds in MA it was plenty adequate. Now living in the hill country of TX, where I find the demands on the rifle at that range and longer to be a bit stiffer. Almost always variable winds on the range here

Congrats on escaping to TX

 

[RankAmateur]

Congrats on escaping to TX

Thanks! It really IS a whole different world down here.

 

[SJan]

Groups look great, now come shoot a match!