Alcohol at the club?

Executive

Executive

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I am a member of a local (to me) club. There is a controversy going on right now regarding alcohol consumption at the club. The club rules state that there is to be no alcohol consumed while a range is open. This goes for indoor/outdoor rifle and pistol, trap, skeet, primitive, and archery. Apparently this rule is being violated. Because of this there is a movement to ban all alcohol at the club at all times with the exception of holiday/special parties when the ranges would be closed anyway. I am 100% in favor of banning alcohol at the club. Some members feel that, like gun laws, more laws are not needed, just enforce the existing laws (in this case the no alcohol while range is open policy). I understand and respect this but feel that no good can come from having alcohol on the premises. I'm interested in other NES guys' opinions and please share the policies at your club. Thanks for reading.


Chris
 
Executive said:
I am a member of a local (to me) club. There is a controversy going on right now regarding alcohol consumption at the club. The club rules state that there is to be no alcohol consumed while a range is open. This goes for indoor/outdoor rifle and pistol, trap, skeet, primitive, and archery. Apparently this rule is being violated. Because of this there is a movement to ban all alcohol at the club at all times with the exception of holiday/special parties when the ranges would be closed anyway. I am 100% in favor of banning alcohol at the club. Some members feel that, like gun laws, more laws are not needed, just enforce the existing laws (in this case the no alcohol while range is open policy). I understand and respect this but feel that no good can come from having alcohol on the premises. I'm interested in other NES guys' opinions and please share the policies at your club. Thanks for reading.


Chris
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I have to agree with the other members, just enforce the existing rules...
 
I recently went to a local gun club on an early Sunday afternoon to inquire about joining. There were 4-5 guys at the bar in the club house loaded and were complete pricks. I sure as hell wasn't interested in joining anymore. I wouldn't believe they never went shooting after drinking at this small club and for that alone I wouldn't want to shoot there. If the good ol' boys hold the key to the liquor cabinet and are the rule enforcers than what will stop them and how would you know?
 
My club (Ames rifle and pistol) has a no alcohol policy period. I have no issues with it and the club has no issues with alcohol bc of it. Guns and booze do not mix and there are people that will abuse it if it's allowed as you have seen for yourself.

Now about the "enforce existing laws" thought... I'm sorry guys, but there are few instances were I firmly believe zero tolerance is the best policy and this is one of them. All it takes is one dumbass to do something dumb, and then the club would be held responsible for the actions of the member due to the allowance of alcohol and apparent "inability to enforce the existing rules of the club" I just don't' think it's a good idea.
 
Ban the people who broke the rules. Why wouldn't they break the new rules if you didn't enforce the ones you already had?
 
Hmmm... I'm ambivalent. My club has a rule of no drinking before or during shooting, but people meet and have beers (BYOB- no bar) after shooting. I don't have any because it's a 40 minute drive for me and I don't ever want to risk being pulled over by a cop and reek of beer with guns in the car, but I don't care what other people do after they shoot. It's been made very clear if you drink then shoot, you're kicked out of the club, no 2nd chances. I've never seen anyone do it. The peer pressure not to is great.

On a related note- how can you be sure people didn't stop and have a few at a bar or at home before they even set foot on club property? You can't.
 
When I belonged at Riverside, a few friends and I would shoot (either indoor/outdoor/or archery) and then go inside to the bar and have a beer.

The rule was no drinking before or during shooting. . . and no loaded guns at the bar ( i assume that's still the rule). I see no problem with this. We would have gone somewhere else for a drink when we were done, this was cheaper and safer (didn't have to lock guns in the trunk in a parking lot where they could have been stolen
 
same

the rules have not changed... if you have a drink at the bar, you will not
be given a key to the indoor range.

there are two levels of membership at RGC, one is a full membership
entitling you to use all of the facilities, the other is a social membership
which limits you to the club house. You need a full membership card
to access the indoor and outdoor range. Could be the drunks were
social members. ????

JimB
 
Existing rules seem fine to me. Ban anyone touching a gun after touching a beer unless it's openly made safe, such as field-stripped.
 
Gun clubs have a hard enough time these days, what with neighbors complaining about noise, neighbors making up escaped round incidents, the Westfield catastrophe, etc., without adding alcohol to the mix. If someone gets drunk and stupid, or drinks at the club and then gets into trouble on the drive home, it will reflect badly on the club. So I come down on the no alcohol side of this argument.
 
JoeT said:
When I belonged at Riverside, a few friends and I would shoot (either indoor/outdoor/or archery) and then go inside to the bar and have a beer.

The rule was no drinking before or during shooting. . . and no loaded guns at the bar ( i assume that's still the rule). I see no problem with this. We would have gone somewhere else for a drink when we were done, this was cheaper and safer (didn't have to lock guns in the trunk in a parking lot where they could have been stolen
Click to expand...

+1
 
M1911 said:
Gun clubs have a hard enough time these days, what with neighbors complaining about noise, neighbors making up escaped round incidents, the Westfield catastrophe, etc., without adding alcohol to the mix. If someone gets drunk and stupid, or drinks at the club and then gets into trouble on the drive home, it will reflect badly on the club. So I come down on the no alcohol side of this argument.
Click to expand...

Again ban it because of a bad or few bad apples? Punish everyone instead of the idiots who are idiots?

It amazes me how much hypocrisy I see in here.
 
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First let me state without exception I do not condone drinking and shooting nor do I condone drinking and carrying a gun. Not even a sip.

This is one of those threads that simply amazes me.
1)The club had a bar when the OP joined. If that's an issue then he either needs to find a new club or live with it.
2)Here we have NESers calling for a ban on alcohol at a gun club. The same NESers who walk in to their local PD and ask the Chief to give them a permit to carry for ALP. The Chief should trust you to do the right thing but you shouldn't trust other gun owners?
 
Guns and alcohol don't mix. Something needs to be done to ensure people aren't drinking and shooting. I don't know if banning it completely is right, but it is a GUN club not a bar. Tough call, but if rules are being broken, offenders need to be addressed.
Kenny
 
derek said:
Again ban it because of a bad or few bad apples? Punish everyone instead of the idiots who are idiots?

It amazes me how much hypocrisy I see in here.
Click to expand...
I understand your point of view on this. Unfortunately, our nation is such that when such incidents occur, it is not only the bad apples who are punished. When the boy died at Westfield, it wasn't just the instructors and organizers who became legal targets -- the club itself is facing criminal charges. If the father had decided to file civil charges, the club would have been sued as well and if they lost could have faced a judgment large enough to close the club.

If a patron at a bar gets drunk and kills someone driving home, these days the bar gets sued. The same thing could happen to a club if a member gets drunk before driving home.

Gun clubs in MA have a target on their back. Neighbors are looking for any reason to shut them down, and some are making up reasons. Look at the problems that Haverhill had a few years back with neighbors falsifying escaped round incidents. There was a supposed escaped round incident at a club in Metro West a year or two ago (Hopinkton?). Braintree's outdoor ranges have faced closures due to similar complaints.

Alcohol issue adds risk for the club itself, not just for the bad apples. Your club may have large enough financial assets to successfully defend itself from legal issues, or to pay for a judgment if not successful. My club simply does not.

I'm not against alcohol at gun clubs due to some moral issue. Frankly, I don't have a problem if someone is carrying and has a beer. My concern is simply one of liability for the club.
 
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derek said:
Again ban it because of a bad or few bad apples? Punish everyone instead of the idiots who are idiots?
Click to expand...

Agreed. Toss out the idiots. Two weeks ago I was talking to the RO at the range I shoot at up in mid-coast Maine and he told me a guy was shooting a .308 downrange at a 100 yd target while 2 people were downrange changing targets, just 50 feet to the right! The RO said he physically cuffed the guy in the head to stop him from firing when he didn't respond to the "CEASE FIRE!" screams. The RO said he screamed at the shooter "WHAT THE EFF ARE YOU DOING!??" and the guy said "What??? I'm not shooting anywhere near those guys!" He was permanently banned from the range. He hadn't been drinking. He was just an idiot.

Idiots don't need to drink to be idiots. Toss out idiots, leave the law/rule abiders alone.
 
JohnM said:
Agreed. Toss out the idiots. Two weeks ago I was talking to the RO at the range I shoot at up in mid-coast Maine and he told me a guy was shooting a .308 downrange at a 100 yd target while 2 people were downrange changing targets, just 50 feet to the right! The RO said he physically cuffed the guy in the head to stop him from firing when he didn't respond to the "CEASE FIRE!" screams. The RO said he screamed at the shooter "WHAT THE EFF ARE YOU DOING!??" and the guy said "What??? I'm not shooting anywhere near those guys!" He was permanently banned from the range. He hadn't been drinking. He was just an idiot.

Idiots don't need to drink to be idiots. Toss out idiots, leave the law/rule abiders alone.
Click to expand...

They stayed there changing targets with rounds hitting the berm 50 feet away? Doesn't sound like the shooter was the only knucklehead.

i refuse to join the club in my town as it's basically a bar/function hall that has ranges. Kind of scary.
 
snorider48 said:
They stayed there changing targets with rounds hitting the berm 50 feet away? Doesn't sound like the shooter was the only knucklehead.

i refuse to join the club in my town as it's basically a bar/function hall that has ranges. Kind of scary.
Click to expand...

I don't know what exactly transpired, I wasn't there, just heard about it from the RO. My understanding was the target changers were not very pleased and the shooter got the hell out of dodge (at the advice of the RO) before the target changers got back to the benches.
 
Enforce the existing rules of the club - That is the starting point. If you already have a rule in place for alcohol consumption at the club then just make it known throughtout the club that breaking this rule will be taken seriously and the consequence would be such and such. Make it known that this is the best way to handle a problem that is starting to arise and if they cannot self-police the policy the next step would have to be reconsidering any alcohol at the club. I figure you will see the problem go away pretty dam fast.
 
Some clubs are just a bar with the range attached. You never see anyone shooting but the bar is always full. I tend to avoid such places.
 
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If a club has a bar that is used heavily and gets revenue from it you can forget about closing the thing. Better off trying to weed out/punish the
idiots.

FWIW, if you have issues with any club having a bar, find a different one. There are a metric ton of clubs in MA that don't have full time bars on the
premises. Many even ban alcohol on the grounds entirely, or only allow it during special events where all ranges are closed.

-Mike
 
The club I belong to has a no drinking before or during shooting rule; I'm sure this is probably due to the fact that they have camp sites on the premises, but there is not a bar there.
 

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