Alcohol at the club?

[Executive]

Let me clarify here, there is NO BAR AT MY CLUB. Any drinking is BYOB. This, unfortunately allows transportation of alcohol to range areas. It is not restricted to a clubhouse or bar.



Chris

 

[richc]

Well 50ft is a long ways.

Jeez... for us new shooters 50ft is considered a margin or error!

 

[BaldAssCat]

My club has a no alcohol in or on you at the range rule. If you get busted you’re gone. We do have a bar. We just expect people responsible enough to own guns to be responsible with guns. As far as I know there haven’t been any issues.

 

[BaldAssCat]

Some clubs are just a bar with the range attached. You never see anyone shooting but the bar is always full. I tend to avoid such places.

You’re missing out. You always have the range to yourself at those places.

 

[richc]

Dumb question... if a club is sued for a terrible accident or transgression... does that open up the board of directors to any liability? Or does it open up litigation potential individual members who are not part of the incident?

My gut reaction is no for individual members not involved in the incident, but I've gotta tell ya that in these days and times nothing would surprise me.

Thoughts?

Rich

 

[M1911]

Dumb question... if a club is sued for a terrible accident or transgression... does that open up the board of directors to any liability? Or does it open up litigation potential individual members who are not part of the incident?

My gut reaction is no for individual members not involved in the incident, but I've gotta tell ya that in these days and times nothing would surprise me.

I don't think that is a dumb question.

IANAL, so take my comments with a grain of salt. I would expect that if such an incident occurs that the board and officers would be sued. If other members were there at the time, it would not surprise me if those members were sued as well.

It is my impression that the usual practice in a personal injury lawsuit is to sue everybody. The judge may excuse some of the parties in the suit, but it is harder to add parties to the lawsuit later. But, as I said, I'm not a lawyer so I may be overly paranoid in this respect. Perhaps Cross-X or one of the other attorneys on the board could comment.

 

[terraformer]

Let me clarify here, there is NO BAR AT MY CLUB. Any drinking is BYOB. This, unfortunately allows transportation of alcohol to range areas. It is not restricted to a clubhouse or bar.

Assuming I know which club you are referring to where the ranges all have different operating hours, is the drinking occurring on the range itself (or in the club house for that particular range) after the range closes but while others are open and is this the issue? Or is it that people are drinking on the particular range when that range itself is open. ie; drinking at the trap range when the rifle range is still open or drinking at the rifle range when the rifle range is open?

BTW: I still stand behind what I said earlier. Forget about what rules you want to put in place, if people clearly violated the existing ones (and there is no way it was from confusion, etc) it is imperative you dump them first, then worry about the new rules after. Because if they knowingly violated the original rules, the new rules will suffer the same fate.

 

[toga]

FWIW, if you have issues with any club having a bar, find a different one. There are a metric ton of clubs in MA that don't have full time bars on the premises. Many even ban alcohol on the grounds entirely, or only allow it during special events where all ranges are closed.

-Mike

I totally agree with this point.

I don't agree with other posts that compare rules at a gun club to state or federal laws. Statements like, "enforce the rules we have," are great for laws, because laws are--quite frankly--imposed upon the populace. However, whether or not you join a gun club and which club you join are individual choices, and you can opt-out at any time.

If a gun club that formerly allowed alcohol on the premises changes its rules and forbids alcohol, you can voluntarily leave and join another club. If a preponderance of members want to change a rule, then they should do it; if that rule change tanks the club, then it should serve as an example for other clubs.

 

[KMaurer]

Idiots don't need to drink to be idiots. Toss out idiots, leave the law/rule abiders alone.

+1 trillion

Everybody wants to point their fingers at the guns, or the booze or the blow or at anything but the idiots who aren't simply responsible for the problem, but are the problem. You can restrict, regulate or ban the guns, the booze and the drugs, but the problem will still be there. Deal with the idiots; solve the problem.

Ken

 

[38supermatt]

Alcohol issue adds risk for the club itself, not just for the bad apples. Your club may have large enough financial assets to successfully defend itself from legal issues, or to pay for a judgment if not successful. My club simply does not.

I'm not against alcohol at gun clubs due to some moral issue. Frankly, I don't have a problem if someone is carrying and has a beer. My concern is simply one of liability for the club.

how much are your clubs dues?
I would certainly imagine your club has the kind financial ability to purchase a liquor liability policy in addition to their general liability policy, along with a directors and officers policy, if it doesn't, your club's finances are likely being seriously mismanaged

the fear of everyone being sued in a typical drunk driving accident is overblown.
the majority of cases settle within the policy limits of the operator. it isn't until you run into the really serious injury cases that you end up seeing the deeper pockets getting exposed.
Your typical adult who is a member of a gun club tends to also be a home owner. If you've got a home, you've got higher than the state minimum liability limits on your car.

if you're a gun club with a bar, you ought to have a million dollar policy on liquor liability. they dont cost much, and they'd provide you with a defense should suit be filed.

I dont know of any clubs in this area with bars that allow you to shoot and drink at the same time. I've been to an awful lot of clubs with bars all over this country, and haven't seen one of them where it's ok to drink and shoot. Typical rule is, first drink, you're done shooting.

 

[Gammon]

how much are your clubs dues?
I would certainly imagine your club has the kind financial ability to purchase a liquor liability policy in addition to their general liability policy, along with a directors and officers policy, if it doesn't, your club's finances are likely being seriously mismanaged

the fear of everyone being sued in a typical drunk driving accident is overblown.
the majority of cases settle within the policy limits of the operator. it isn't until you run into the really serious injury cases that you end up seeing the deeper pockets getting exposed.
Your typical adult who is a member of a gun club tends to also be a home owner. If you've got a home, you've got higher than the state minimum liability limits on your car.

if you're a gun club with a bar, you ought to have a million dollar policy on liquor liability. they dont cost much, and they'd provide you with a defense should suit be filed.

I dont know of any clubs in this area with bars that allow you to shoot and drink at the same time. I've been to an awful lot of clubs with bars all over this country, and haven't seen one of them where it's ok to drink and shoot. Typical rule is, first drink, you're done shooting.

The liability problem as I see it isn't financial, as insurance can solve that issue. Our problem is image, our relations with the community, and the constant threat of the anti-gun movement. Any problem with alcohol that can be associated with a gun club is a huge PR disaster. Face it people, despite the Heller decision, we are on the defensive. Our worst enemies occupy the White House and control both the House and the Senate. We simply cannot afford to give these people anything to use against us.

I have visited clubs that allowed alcohol consumption and was impressed with the measures taken to separate the drinking from the shooting. The general solution was to make the lounge or bar available to members on their way home, often to the extent of placing these facilities as far away from the ranges as possible, literally your last stop on the way off of the premises. Other clubs allowed alcohol consumption only on special occasions and only after all of the ranges were closed.

Even with strict controls in place, I don't think alcohol has any place in our gun clubs. As I mentioned earlier, the chance for a PR disaster is just too great. The question is rather simple; do you want to drink or shoot? There are a lot more bars out there than gun clubs. Let's do everything we can to protect these clubs and our second amendment rights.

I submit this opinion as a veteran of fifteen years experience in the restaurant/bar business.