Any History Dectectives Out There? Comm2A Wants to Know

[Comm2A]

We have a little historical sleuthing mission for one or two motivated folks who have time to dig through old news archives. If you have some time and the aptitude to dig through the news of a century ago we'd love to hear from you. What we have is a series of gun related legislation enacted in the early part of the last century. What we want to know is: why? What was going on in times that resulted in the enactment of these laws. We have some hints, but we need folks to run down original source material.

Interested? Email me.

 

[Billsail]

Narrowing down the time frame would help. 1900-1930+/-?

 

[MisterHappy]

The war on [STRIKE=undefined]drugs [/STRIKE]alcohol.

There's a reason the NFA 1934 came about when it did, IMO....

 

[theGringo]

A review of the Sullivan Act might prove illuminating.

 

[strangenh]

That is interesting. In Clayton Cramer's book on CCW laws (Concealed Weapon Laws of the Early Republic), he notes as an aside that MA did not regulate concealed carry until much later than many southern and central US states (where it was - super short version - spurred by a perceived transition from dueling to flat out assassination, combined with anti Scots-Irish sentiment). It does sound like something happened between the Civil War and the 1920s, huh?

Maybe Comm2A could see if Cramer's interested in taking the plunge? He's a phenomenal scholar and that's his bailiwick.

 

[Billsail]

There was legislation in various jurisdictions crafted to keep firearms out of the hands of blacks. There were also laws passed specifically targeting Mexicans, including the banning of possession and use of Marijuana. That's right, that's where it started. I know that has nothing to do with firearms (or does it?).

Just giving some possible leads to the 'detectives'.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Narrowing down the time frame would help. 1900-1930+/-?

That would be the era. The hints include things like Boston's first Irish Mayor, Sacco & Vanzetti, etc.

 

[OfficerObie59]

We have a little historical sleuthing mission for one or two motivated folks who have time to dig through old news archives. If you have some time and the aptitude to dig through the news of a century ago we'd love to hear from you. What we have is a series of gun related legislation enacted in the early part of the last century. What we want to know is: why? What was going on in times that resulted in the enactment of these laws. We have some hints, but we need folks to run down original source material.

Interested? Email me.

If you guys have West/Lexis access, I would strongly recommend looking up law review articles on the topic. You're likely to find exact historical references that have been verified a multitude of times.

If I can help, I definitely will. Shoot me a PM.

 

[bandaid bandit]

I often have plenty of free time during the day, and I am a bit of a history buff, so I'd be happy to help in whatever capacity needed. Especially if it helps in forming arguments against Marsha's 'list' and the bovine excrement that is the discretionary licensing system here in MA

 

[Len-2A Training]

If you guys have West/Lexis access, I would strongly recommend looking up law review articles on the topic. You're likely to find exact historical references that have been verified a multitude of times.

To add to this . . .

Every county in MA has a Law Library (usually located in a court house) which is open to the public and allows unlimited access to West/Lexis information. There is also a publicly accessible Law Library in the Statehouse (I remember using it way back probably in the 1970s-80s).

County Law Libraries locations can be found here:
Massachusetts Trial Court Law Libraries Locations and Contact Information

 

[That Guy]

That would be the era. The hints include things like Boston's first Irish Mayor, Sacco & Vanzetti, etc.

I would imagine this combined with Volstead account for the majority of shitty laws we have in the Commonwealth regarding guns. I'm not a good researcher beyond using the Google machine, but I do enjoy reading what comes of it, so I can't wait to see the final product.

 

[strangenh]

I would imagine this combined with Volstead account for the majority of shitty laws we have in the Commonwealth regarding guns. I'm not a good researcher beyond using the Google machine, but I do enjoy reading what comes of it, so I can't wait to see the final product.

Could be in part, but they were killed over (their politics and) a 1920 crime and MA had already enacted a license requirement to buy guns in 1916. Complicated. MASS. GEN. LAWS (1916) c. 395, § 2 (cited in a Virginia Law Review article quoted at SAF - THE UNIFORM FIREARMS ACT ).

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

It appears the the very first law regulating the carrying of guns in Massachusetts dates to 1906, five years before the Sullivan Act in New York. Chapter 172 of the Acts of 1906 (approved 3/16/1906) Provided for the issuance of licenses to carry loaded a loaded pistol or revolver if it appears the applicant has "good reason to fear injury to his person or property, and that he is a suitable person to be so licensed". Section 2 of the act provides penalties for carry a firearm (among other things) without authorization or a license.

So the question we're asking is: "Why did the legislature feel compelled to enact this legislation at this time?" There are several other important milestones since that time and we want to know the motivation for those changes as well.

 

[Billsail]

It appears the the very first law regulating the carrying of guns in Massachusetts dates to 1906, five years before the Sullivan Act in New York. Chapter 172 of the Acts of 1906 (approved 3/16/1906) Provided for the issuance of licenses to carry loaded a loaded pistol or revolver if it appears the applicant has "good reason to fear injury to his person or property, and that he is a suitable person to be so licensed". Section 2 of the act provides penalties for carry a firearm (among other things) without authorization or a license.

So the question we're asking is: "Why did the legislature feel compelled to enact this legislation at this time?" There are several other important milestones since that time and we want to know the motivation for those changes as well.

How about newspaper archives 1900-1906? Are they easy to access?

 

[That Guy]

I have a question: Do you already feel like you know the answer and you are looking for independent research to back that up? Or do you feel like you just have a general idea and you're looking for help shoring that idea up? Just curious.

 

[That Guy]

Could be in part, but they were killed over (their politics and) a 1920 crime and MA had already enacted a license requirement to buy guns in 1916. Complicated. MASS. GEN. LAWS (1916) c. 395, § 2 (cited in a Virginia Law Review article quoted at SAF - THE UNIFORM FIREARMS ACT ).

True, Volstead unfortunately followed on the heels of the anarchist movement which helped with NFA more than Mass. laws. Sacco and Vanzetti's crime in 1920 was not the beginning of the anarchist movement around Boston - they are merely the most famous case (I still can't really figure out why). Anarchists bombed the Salutation Street police station in, what, 1917? In 1918 or 1919 they mailed almost 50 bombs to people at one time and in 1919 exploded a bomb on Wall Street. Galleani and his followers were active around Boston for about 6 years - beginning in 1914. Closer inspection might indicate the anarchist movement was much more of the catalyst for these laws than Volstead, I suppose.

Much like today when we pass sweeping laws to try to change the behavior of a few that won't actually follow the new laws any more than they follow the old ones, the government was probably passing laws to put it to the public that they were "doing something."

 

[Boghog1]

look in the time frame of prohibition, it was then we saw an increase in a black market for booze and the use of guns to protect that market, maybe get a sit down with the Kennedy family as I hear they may know a thing or two about it

 

[squatch413]

From what I have read it seems that there was a rash of armed robberies at stores attributed to eastern and southern european immigrants at the 1906 time period. That and copying other states enacting jim crow laws.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

How about newspaper archives 1900-1906? Are they easy to access?

I have no idea, that's why we're asking for help.

I have a question: Do you already feel like you know the answer and you are looking for independent research to back that up? Or do you feel like you just have a general idea and you're looking for help shoring that idea up? Just curious.

We think we have an idea of the types of things that may have caused the enactment of these laws, but we haven't made any cause and effect conclusions. We're not looking for someone to write the footnotes, we need the facts.

From what I have read it seems that there was a rash of armed robberies at stores attributed to eastern and southern european immigrants at the 1906 time period. That and copying other states enacting jim crow laws.

And that's where we'd like to find the 'smoking guns'.

The key years for early gun control in MA were 1906, 1911, 1919, 1922, 1925 & 1927.

 

[Boris]

this is a most meritorious endeavor

 

[squatch413]

By smoking guns do you mean actual cases or specific mentions of this type of crime?

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

By smoking guns do you mean actual cases or specific mentions of this type of crime?

I'm looking for anything that connects the dots. Let's say that we were historians in the year 2113 and we wanted to figure out why, in 2013 Massachusetts banned possession of magazine that could hold more than 7 rounds. We couldn't tell that by looking at the law or the bills that were filed. But if we started to look through the newspapers or other historical sources from 2013 we might be able to associate certain events in the news with the passage of this legislation.

Do newspapers or other sources from 1906, 1911, 1919, 1922, 1925 & 1927 talk about pending legislation. Are their anti-immigrant stories from that time that talk about the need to limit access to guns? Does coverage about Sacco and Vanzetti include comments about how easily immigrants can access guns? Those are the things that help put together the picture of why these bills were introduced and passes when they were.

 

[squatch413]

List of school shootings in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia- 1906 George Dewolfe

Gun Violence in America: The Struggle for Control - Alexander DeConde - Google Books- repeating pistols a "menace" says mass jurors

Commonwealth v Murphy 1896 seems to have set the precedent although honestly I dont understand all the legal speak.

I will post anything else I find as I find it. Hope some of this helps.