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Anyone see this? It will make me even more careful.
- Thread starter BillO
- Start date
J
JellyFish
Wow. Definitely motivation to refresh basic gun safety skills for sure. Thank goodness he is okay.
What kind of BULLSHIT reasoning is this?! NO, it is absolutely not a matter of "when!" Your number didn't come up...You were a f*&king careless idiot!
And to top this all off, the retard is a U.S. Marshal! I have no sympathy for the ignorance and carelessness of this fool.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
Actually, no, he's not, Dave. Read the whole thing and you'll see this at the bottom of the page:
Note to self: Keep up practice of checking chambers EVERY time you pick up a gun!!
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Sooo true.
- Joined
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I have gotten into a habit of checking the chamber three times. It looks a little stupid, but now it's a habit. I open the action, check it, close it, open again, check with finger , close it, open again, check barrel.
With my lever action or pump shotgun, if I am expecting the magazine to be empty, I cycle the action each time I open it.
With my lever action or pump shotgun, if I am expecting the magazine to be empty, I cycle the action each time I open it.
He's pretty up front about that. I think the point is that you can get away with doing stupid, dangerous things for a long time without suffering the consequences. Nobody gets shot or shoots someone else the first time he or she violates one of the basic rules. That's why people get lulled into complacency. That's why I make such a point of it in my classes. I check the chamber every time I pick up a gun. Maybe it's the 15th time I've picked up that particular gun during the class, but it still gets checked each and every time. After a few times I comment on the seeming silliness of it to the students. It follows nicely on the discussion of the difference between knowledge and skills. If you have to stop and think about it, it isn't really a skill yet. It has to be absolutely automatic and thoughtless. If you stop to think about it, you'll start making exceptions and eventually a visit by Murphy, or even Darwin.
Ken
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Why the F*** would you pull the trigger with it pointed at you!! (or anything else for that matter)
Sometimes I feel like I'm being paranoid, but I'd rather be over zealous about safety than be shot all to hell...
Murphy is alive and well
I was at a crowed local gun shop when someone came in looking to place his 1911A1 on consignment. Since I was next in line, I stayed close to the counter and paid some attention as the 45 was being handled. I’m always interested in new consignment arrivals and was trying to get a glimpse of it during the appraisal process. I did notice no mag in the 45. Upon being handed to the appraiser, he pointed the 45 in a safe direction, racked the slide, and ejected a live round. That hardball 45 dancing across the glass counter echoed through the shop and got everyone’s immediate attention. The guy then babbled on and on how this had never happened before, how long he had owned firearms, how careful he was, ect ect, and that he thought he had checked the chamber. Accidents DO happen, and I think it somewhat arrogant when I run into the “It can’t happen to me” attitude. The message here is that it can happen to ANYONE.
I was at a crowed local gun shop when someone came in looking to place his 1911A1 on consignment. Since I was next in line, I stayed close to the counter and paid some attention as the 45 was being handled. I’m always interested in new consignment arrivals and was trying to get a glimpse of it during the appraisal process. I did notice no mag in the 45. Upon being handed to the appraiser, he pointed the 45 in a safe direction, racked the slide, and ejected a live round. That hardball 45 dancing across the glass counter echoed through the shop and got everyone’s immediate attention. The guy then babbled on and on how this had never happened before, how long he had owned firearms, how careful he was, ect ect, and that he thought he had checked the chamber. Accidents DO happen, and I think it somewhat arrogant when I run into the “It can’t happen to me” attitude. The message here is that it can happen to ANYONE.
When Alan was checking out his unit before he signed, the CO brought us into the arms room. He grabbed one of the M-16's off the rack, never cleared it, handed it to Alan, who since we beat it into his head since he was small, automatically cleared it, made the CO look bad, the the armorer was trying not to bust a gut. The CO after Alan handed it back to him then decided to clear it.
Chris
NES Member
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OK, I KNOW you should always check and double check, but has anyone else always thought the "Pull the Trigger" before disassembly of a Glock was a BAD idea? I still can't picture how he was holding the gun so that he shot himself like that. I've always held a Glock from underneath, operated the takedown and pulled the slide off.
Seems to me he violated TWO major rules.
1) Always leave a gun unloaded until you are ready to use it
2) Always point a gun in a safe direction.
Nope, don't care what he says, he's an IDIOT.
Seems to me he violated TWO major rules.
1) Always leave a gun unloaded until you are ready to use it
2) Always point a gun in a safe direction.
Nope, don't care what he says, he's an IDIOT.
D
daceman63
you can't "hope" it will never happen to you. You have to "make" it not happen to you by doing everything everyone here has said....safety, safety, safety......check....double check....triple check......and then when you're done checking.....check again.
In order to take a Glock apart (and possibly other brands of striker
fired guns) you MUST pull the trigger before disassembly.
While this sounds dangerous, it really isn't, if you-
A- clear the firearm properly;
B- point the firearm in a safe direction before pulling the trigger.
-Mike
Even if he had obeyed proper muzzle discipline, worst case
would have been some ringing ears and a hole in his floor... instead
he shoots himself in the hand.
I'm still trying to figure out how his hand ended up in front
of the muzzle during takedown. You don't even have to
bring the 2nd hand into play until you've already decocked the
gun by dry firing it. It's not rocket science.... it just requires
methodical, deliberate practices. Anyone can avoid hurting themselves
with a firearm, or any other tool for that matter, with a little bit of
forethought and practice.
The only consolation prize here is at least he didn't hurt anyone
else, and he learned a lesson the hard way, and can pass that on
to someone else that hasn't.
would have been some ringing ears and a hole in his floor... instead
he shoots himself in the hand.
I'm still trying to figure out how his hand ended up in front
of the muzzle during takedown. You don't even have to
bring the 2nd hand into play until you've already decocked the
gun by dry firing it. It's not rocket science.... it just requires
methodical, deliberate practices. Anyone can avoid hurting themselves
with a firearm, or any other tool for that matter, with a little bit of
forethought and practice.
The only consolation prize here is at least he didn't hurt anyone
else, and he learned a lesson the hard way, and can pass that on
to someone else that hasn't.
J
JellyFish
I agree that he behaved foolishly and tried to fob it off as "his number coming up" but I do think also that he had balls to write about it and it serves as a helpful reminder to all of us to be careful.
I agree.
In contrast, consider field stripping a Sig: 1) remove magazine. 2) lock slide open (thus clearing the chamber). 3) turn takedown lever. 4) pull back on the slide and push it off the frame. a) you start with the slide locked open and b) you never pull the trigger.
The downside of the Sig is the high bore axis. I suspect this may be related to the disassembly lever -- take a look at the room in the frame required for the disassembly lever.
I'm not saying that the Glock is unsafe. I am saying that the Sig is safer in this respect.
He violated those 2 rules plus a third which should be number 1
Don't use a Glock !
These types of "accident's" are almost always involving Glocks.
Glocks are Evil !
![[devil2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/017.gif "Devil2 [devil2]")
![[angry2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/019.gif "Angry2 [angry2]")
J
JellyFish
I never saw what was so great about glocks. I've tried a couple and they didn't do much for me. I'm sure they're fine guns but I don't see how they tower over what Smith and Wesson and other gun makers are putting out. Seems like glock is more of a name brand than anything else.
Mr. I Shot Myself said:
Ummm. Yeah. Maybe we need to redefine the meanings of "uber safe" and "always" here. My definitions wouldn't allow for shooting yourself and still counting it as always.
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
Well, I beg to differ. Frankly all a "safer" gun is going to do in this
regard is delay the inevitable, which is an ND by some other
means. You cannot use a mechanical device in this case to compensate
for an obvious mental deficiency on the part of the operator. The same
guy that fails to check his firearm or points it in an unsafe direction (when
it clearly didn't have to be) is typically going to be "that guy" that causes an
ND because his finger was on the trigger when it shouldn't have been
there.
I can admit that a Glock might expose negligence faster, but thats
about it. This percieved "improved safety" fetish about having to
pull the trigger to clean it though is pure nonsense.
I'm not a Glock fanboy, either. Condemning a glock for the way it
takes down is rather amusing, though. It's not much different than
bashing a car manufacturer because their headlights don't have windshield
wipers on them, and that it's such a huge safety feature when driving
on a muddy road.
-Mike
Like any gun, Glocks have advantages and disadvantages. IMHO, Glock advantages include:
- low cost (in a free state)
- very low bore axis, results in little muzzle rise
- short reset results in fast follow up shots
- reliable
- excellent coating on the slide
- parts easily swapped out
- DAO/safe-action operation (single, consistent trigger pull)
Disadvantages include:
- poopy trigger (that's a technical gunsmith term
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
)- large grip circumference
- poopy trigger
- stock sights are terrible (though easily replaced)
- the whole non-drop-free magazine stupidity (now fixed)
- for us 1911 guys, the Glock grip angle is wrong (bloody thing points too high -- I'm waiting for a CCF Raceframe to fix that).
- did I mention the poopy trigger?
As for S&W, until the M&P, I think nothing they had was very competitive. I'm just not a fan of DA/SA and slide-mounted decocker/safeties just plain suck horribly -- it's way, way too easy to mistakenly put the safety on while operating the slide. The Sigma was very problematic as well. The M&P is very new, so I suspect the bugs aren't quite out of it, but it looks quite competitive.
D
daceman63
He violated those 2 rules plus a third which should be number 1
Don't use a Glock !
These types of "accident's" are almost always involving Glocks.
Glocks are Evil !
Should all Glocks be confiscated and banned then?
Chris
NES Member
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Not condemning, just pointing out that having a requirement to pull the trigger to do anything more than shoot is, in my opinion, a poor design. Frankly, the guns are a pretty good product. Fairly cheap to make, easy to care for, and an absolute breeze to maintain and repair. However, if I had to pick ONE major design blunder, the trigger pull to field strip is it.
Of course, the most comical of all is that they call this a "Safe Action". (^_^)
Now, if I had to pick ONE major blunder from the person this thread is about is that he's a complete IDIOT. But I repeat myself.
Ouch..
While I didn't nearly blow off my hand, I have experienced the shame of ventilating my ex-wife's brand new leather coat through an ND.
![[sad]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/004.gif "Sad [sad]")
I'm not sure I agree with the absolute "when", but its a possibility we all face at some time.
RJ
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