AR to familiarize with M16

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BrianK

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My son will be attending "grad school" at Parris Island in the not too distant future.

I'm thinking of getting an AR (there's currently none in the safe) to, among other things, allow him to get used to the manual of arms, cleaning and maintenance procedures, etc., while he has the luxury of not being totally sleep deprived. (Hey, it's as good an excuse as any to buy another gun.)

Are they all the same in this regard? Any suggestions to the purpose (please, no general "this is the best AR" responses - I'm trying to confine this to "fitness for purpose," and recognize that the likely answer is they're all the same in this regard).

Thanks folks. - BrianK
 
AR's are pretty much the same as the M4's issued to members of the military. If he can operate and clean an AR he should do fine with the M4
 
Shaggy0131 said:
AR's are pretty much the same as the M4's issued to members of the military. If he can operate and clean an AR he should do fine with the M4
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Marine recruits don't get M4s. These days they get an M16A4 with an ACOG.

To the OP: The DIs and PMIs will teach him everything he needs to know.
 
jasons said:
Marine recruits don't get M4s. These days they get an M16A4 with an ACOG.
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Twas an M16A-1 in my day (and a quill pen to write home with..!)

Any suggestions on an appropriate rifle Jason? You may have the most relevant/recent experience.

Note, I'm not looking to ingrain bad habits he'll struggle with during grass week. I'm just thinking a basic familiarity with the weapon can't hurt. Along with starting on the rest of the knowledge (he's had my Handbook for Marines since he was in kneepants, so to speak - not sure he read it! - but insignia, etc. - a leg up doesn't hurt)
 
BrianK said:
Twas an M16A-1 in my day (and a quill pen to write home with..!)

Any suggestions on an appropriate rifle Jason? You may have the most relevant/recent experience.

Note, I'm not looking to ingrain bad habits he'll struggle with during grass week. I'm just thinking a basic familiarity with the weapon can't hurt. Along with starting on the rest of the knowledge (he's had my Handbook for Marines since he was in kneepants, so to speak - not sure he read it! - but insignia, etc. - a leg up doesn't hurt)
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It was A2s in my day. Boot camp was the better part of two decades ago for me.

The closest thing would be any lower with an A2 stock and pistol grip, an A4 style upper with a 20" barrel, a Knight's Armament rail (at least I think that's what they use these days,) and a Trijicon TA31RCO-A4CP ACOG. The ACOG alone goes for $1,500 bucks.

Honestly the rifle stuff is easy. He'd be better off memorizing the general orders and other knowledge.
 
Yup, that's my mantra. Start memorizing the classroom stuff they teach while you'll be standing in the back of the room trying not to sleep on your feet. Thanks Jason.
 
PS - they use optics during basic now? Do they at least teach the iron sights too? Man, I am out of it.
 
BrianK said:
PS - they use optics during basic now? Do they at least teach the iron sights too? Man, I am out of it.
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Tell me about it. Not quite sure when 1995 became "old Corps."

From what I've heard they switched to optics sometime in the summer of 2011.
 
I know nothing of what's issued these days but you can watch these videos YouTube to familiarize.....I never served but something tells me almost anything you know going in will be wrong even its right...I recently talked to a recent recruit who told me he qualified on an electronic gun inside a building? I don't know how much truth there is to this.
I do know one of my friends son went into the marines a few years ago and his father( ret usmc) was disappointed with his marskman ship when the son came home...
I do agree its a great reason if one is needed to buy a gun.
 
A few of my really close friends are Marines and have joined with in the past 3 years.
The most recent went through basic last year I believe. My math could be off but I want to say he was one of the last groups to go through with iron sights?

Either way one went in with some firearms handling and knowledge and 2 didn't. The one who did said he was almost better off going in blind because you'll most likely bring a bad habit in with you. They're so thorough with you that people with no firearms experience are qualifying as experts.
Like other people have said imaybe focus on the classroom stuff more than the rifle part of it.

I've never served so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.
 
JCV said:
A few of my really close friends are Marines and have joined with in the past 3 years.
The most recent went through basic last year I believe. My math could be off but I want to say he was one of the last groups to go through with iron sights?

Either way one went in with some firearms handling and knowledge and 2 didn't. The one who did said he was almost better off going in blind because you'll most likely bring a bad habit in with you. They're so thorough with you that people with no firearms experience are qualifying as experts.
Like other people have said imaybe focus on the classroom stuff more than the rifle part of it.

I've never served so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.
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You dry fire for 8 hours a day for 6 straight days before you ever fire a single live round. I'd never fired a rifle in my life prior to Parris Island, and I ended up shooting 6 points shy of a perfect score.
 
road work and the weight room before the bus ride will be a big advantage, the rest will work itself out.
 
I never so much as handled an AR in a gun store prior to boot camp. I did fine. Having said that, it certainly wouldn't hurt for your son to be able to disassemble and re-assemble a BCG. In the same respect as being in good physical shape before hand, do what you can to blend in to the crowd. If this is a good excuse for you to buy an AR - you have already made up your mind. Go for it.
 
Probably better off not teaching him anything. That way he won't have to unlearn bad habits when he gets there.

 
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Well I will differ a bit. I say more trigger time the better. You usually get some crappy A2 with some beat iron sites. Actual trigger time is very nil, maybe a week if that. The military is not looking to make snipers out of you, just push as many bodies through training to plus up the troops overseas. So if you pass marksmenship, they spend most of their time with the knuckleheads that cannot shoot (sometimes taping their heads to the stocks-seriously). Lots of late nights for those kids.
I spent a lot of time at the range before I joined and I crushed marksmenship. All the time at the range paid off since once I could shoot, I could focus on the little tricks that really helped me increase my score. Not have some Drill Sergeant chewing me out while trying to figure out how to get a round on paper. But people are right, the gym, running, and I would say the range. I also felt more comfortable stepping into Haji-Land knowing I could part someones hair out to 300 meters. And a lot of that had to do with going to the range before Uncle Sam got me.

OIF
OEF
TBD
 
goodlife30 said:
Well I will differ a bit. I say more trigger time the better. You usually get some crappy A2 with some beat iron sites. Actual trigger time is very nil, maybe a week if that. The military is not looking to make snipers out of you, just push as many bodies through training to plus up the troops overseas. So if you pass marksmenship, they spend most of their time with the knuckleheads that cannot shoot (sometimes taping their heads to the stocks-seriously). Lots of late nights for those kids.
I spent a lot of time at the range before I joined and I crushed marksmenship. All the time at the range paid off since once I could shoot, I could focus on the little tricks that really helped me increase my score. Not have some Drill Sergeant chewing me out while trying to figure out how to get a round on paper. But people are right, the gym, running, and I would say the range. I also felt more comfortable stepping into Haji-Land knowing I could part someones hair out to 300 meters. And a lot of that had to do with going to the range before Uncle Sam got me.

OIF
OEF
TBD
Click to expand...

I'm assuming, because you mentioned drill sergeants, that you're talking about Army basic training. Actual trigger time aboard Parris Island is a bit more intensive than what you experienced. You have to be able to part someone's hair out to 500 meters in order to leave the island.
 
travis said:
The onyl real difference you need to be aware of is on the m16 you have to make sure you never close the upper when the selector in the FA position.
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Recruits don't get to play with burst anyway. If he ever flipped that switch he'd be doing mountain climbers until his balls fell off.
 
Weigh my opinion in light of my never having been in the military, but it seems to me that if you want a leg up on accurately firing a rifle, an Appleseed with a 10/22 would be the best way to go.

Or an Appleseed with a M&P 15/22 for that matter.
 
Garys said:
Weigh my opinion in light of my never having been in the military, but it seems to me that if you want a leg up on accurately firing a rifle, an Appleseed with a 10/22 would be the best way to go.

Or an Appleseed with a M&P 15/22 for that matter.
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Sorry, but that's not a very good idea. When he gets to the island the PMIs will teach him the Marine Corps way to shoot. Getting Appleseed stuff into his head will just start bad habits.
 
An "A2" variant full size AR is pointless these days IMO. Let the professionals do their thing and when he gets back you two can build an m4 clone or something.

If they went to ACOGs for the KD range than the last vestige of true marksmanship instruction in the basic military has died, and its a sad day.

Mike


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
 
BrianK said:
PS - they use optics during basic now? Do they at least teach the iron sights too? Man, I am out of it.
Click to expand...
Can't speak for marines bt the army uses an acog or red dot cco.....but on the qual range the procedure is

1. zero iron sites with optic removed
2. install optic...."lollipop" it to the front site post and check zero using optic
3. qualify on the pop up range with optic

So the Soldier is required to zero the iron sites in case the optic fails for some reason but yes the main site used for qual is an optic....eithr cco or acog
 
crazymjb said:
An "A2" variant full size AR is pointless these days IMO. Let the professionals do their thing and when he gets back you two can build an m4 clone or something.

If they went to ACOGs for the KD range than the last vestige of true marksmanship instruction in the basic military has died, and its a sad day.

Mike


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

I can't say that I agree totally with this. Weapon systems have evolved over the 300+years of the armed forces especially in America. THe USA prides itself on providing its soldiers with the most modern technology available and that is how I see the move to the use of optics. Qualification rates have increased dramatically with the use of cco for range qual in the Army and to me that means our soldiers are better for it not worse......meaning they are more lethal to the enemy in combat. I think hanging on to iron sites for qualification would be a detriment to our Soldiers if better technology is available. Just my humble opinion......but remember the SOldier still has to zero the iron site
 
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inerlogic said:
DA FUQ?!?!?
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I'm not sure what your question is.......are you questioning as to if the procedure I outlined is correct because I can guarantee you that it is. Or are you questioning why a Soldier is required to zereo the iron sites in case the optic fails? Or are you questioning how iron sites are used if the optic fails......because if that is the case the M4 still has a pop up rear site apeture and a front site (the military M4 is not a "flat top" POS like I've seen on the civilian market)......when using the optic the shooter drops the rear apeture and sees the red dot of the cco or the v shaped aim point of the acog sitting just at the tip of the front site post......if the optic fails due to low battery in the case of the cco or combat breakage to an acog (Soldiers put them through hell in combat) the shooter simply pops up the rear apeture and looks through the sites normally (through the cco with no red dot). Capiche?
 
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whacko said:
I can't say that I agree totally with this. Weapon systems have evolved over the 300+years of the armed forces especially in America. THe USA prides itself on providing its soldiers with the most modern technology available and that is how I see the move to the use of optics. Qualification rates have increased dramatically with the use of cco for range qual in the Army and to me that means our soldiers are better for it not worse......meaning they are more lethal to the enemy in combat. I think hanging on to iron sites for qualification would be a detriment to our Soldiers if better technology is available. Just my humble opinion......but remember the SOldier still has to zero the iron site
Click to expand...

You have plenty of time to use your acog in training. Im not saying never do it. I am saying for the Marine Corps known distance qualification which is supposed to test the fundamenrals of marksmanship, I think it was a bad call to allow a requalification with an ACOG. If the USMC has in fact done away with teaching Irons at all, even in boot camp, than its a sad day. One of my best friends leaves foe PI pretty soon so Ill know soon enough.

Mike

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
 

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