AR15 - can't hit the broadside if a barn

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Rim Job

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So I loaded up a ladder of H4895 using a 62gr bullet and finally got to the range today. Could not zero for shit @ 100 yards, no matter how many adjustments I made. I would shoot 5 rounds, mark them on the target, adjust the scope (Nikon P223) and shoot 5-10 more. Wash, rinse, repeat. All over the place. It's one of several things:

bad shooter
bad barrel (Palmetto State 1/7 16" MP CHF barrel)
bad scope (Nikon P223 held down with Nikon P series mount)
Bad ammo

I'm more accurate with my Ruger 10/22 with a Green Mountain 20" barrel @ 100 yards vs my AR


Started like this
rHyTCl.jpg


And kept going like this
jMhdWz.jpg


Ended up at this
zKj5oj.jpg


I eventually ended up at "**** it" and just shot at the steel target @ 300 and 500 yards
 
After pissing away ammo I've learned to start at 50 yards (works for me, don't know what real shooters would recommend). Sounds like you aren't sure of the gun, have you tried it with the iron sights?
 
1. Make sure everything is tight
2. benchrest the gun and cheat as much as possible and see if it will group on a fairly close target (only shoot for group)
3. If it doesn't group don't bother screwing with your scope adjustments.
4. Let someone else shoot it (the wing nut behind the trigger might be lose).
 
Mike-Mike said:
1. Make sure everything is tight
2. benchrest the gun and cheat as much as possible and see if it will group on a fairly close target (only shoot for group)
3. If it doesn't group don't bother screwing with your scope adjustments.
4. Let someone else shoot it (the wing nut behind the trigger might be lose).
Click to expand...

Checked when I got home, everything is tight

Already using a Caldwell Handy Rest NXT

Will have to wait until next time @ range

Nobody else was @ range today when I was there. The wing nut behind the trigger was definitely loose today. To many hours worked in too few days



rep308 said:
One variable at a time, start with factory ammo and 50 yards iron sites
Click to expand...

Time to stop @ Walmart. And no iron sights. I do have a 4x scope on the other AR I've never used.
 
If the gun has irons, I'd check that. I am suspicious of the scope or mount. But to be methodical, I'd do this.

Find a friend who is a known good shooter.
Have him shoot it as is.

If still inaccurate, have him shoot it with irons.

If still inaccurate, change ammo to a batch known to shoot well in other guns. Or factory ammo.

If still inaccurate, sell the gun. Just not on NES.
 
check to ensure the barrel itself is tight. i had a similar issue and it turned out to be that the barrel was not tightened down enough.

to check, i'd grab the front sight post with one hand, the completed rifle in the other and twist back and forth (not with hulk strenght). See if there's any play between the upper and the barrel.
 
daddysuperfly said:
check to ensure the barrel itself is tight. i had a similar issue and it turned out to be that the barrel was not tightened down enough.

to check, i'd grab the front sight post with one hand, the completed rifle in the other and twist back and forth (not with hulk strenght). See if there's any play between the upper and the barrel.
Click to expand...

Agree with this. That group is huge.

Like others said start at 25yds using the target above, use a laser site tool if you have one. Make sure all hardware is tight and scope mounts loctited if in doubt.

- - - Updated - - -

looks like my bumpfire groups... [rofl]
 
Sounds like accumulated issues from each factor.
Trying to zero a scope while testing loads is futile.
62 grain bullets are these 62 m855 pulled ? They kinda of suck.
Scope and mount....over tight can be just as bad as to loose.
PSA barrel, well there are PSA fans and not fans
No need for loctite on scope/mount screws....maybe after you get things zeroed.
Toss in tired and things get even worse.

Are you sure your mount is correct for your scope? 1" vs 30mm
 
Last edited:
slap shot said:
Agree with this. That group is huge.

Like others said start at 25yds using the target above, use a laser site tool if you have one. Make sure all hardware is tight and scope mounts loctited if in doubt.

- - - Updated - - -

looks like my bumpfire groups... [rofl]
Click to expand...

I'll also add that when i had my issue, it wouldn't group on a paper plate at 50 yds. so yes, bring it in a lot closer to start with
 
The first AR I built had a Mossberg melonite finish barrel in ~7" twist if I recall correctly. Sprayed 55 grain ammo of various makes all over the target and off target as well. I went through everything- barrel torque, sights, scope- whatever could be checked was. I had basically written it off as a bad barrel, worth less than the $99 I paid. Sometime later I tried heavier, better quality bullets. First time with the 69 grain bullets it shot a one hole group at 25 yards and a nice tight group at 50 yards.

You can reload for way cheaper, but to test the theory I'd try a box of factory match ammo or a hunting load if something 69 grain or heavier is available. Worth a shot, if you'll pardon the pun...
 
The idea that reloads are better than factory ammunition is only true if they are. Always start with factory ammunition to get a benchmark. After all in the AR
we're usually talking way south of $10 a box.
 
Some great advice. Definitely starting at 25 yards with iron's is where you need to go back too. I had a similar incident where barrel nut was not tight and guy I was with kept blaming the scope, right up to where I took scope off that is. You can go to Nikon's Spot On Program to see where you would need to impact at 25 or 50 yards for a 100 yard zero if all wroks out the second time around. Good luck and keep us posted.
 
Does anybody have a suggestion for a clamp style front sight that does not have the gas block built into it?

The rifle is Mass compliant so the muzzle brake gets in the way of removing the stock gas block.

I did sneak out of work to check and the barrel is tight to the upper. And I found some XM193 55grn in the safe, so I have that to start with.
 
Rim Job said:
So I loaded up a ladder of H4895 using a 62gr bullet and finally got to the range today. Could not zero for shit @ 100 yards, no matter how many adjustments I made. I would shoot 5 rounds, mark them on the target, adjust the scope (Nikon P223) and shoot 5-10 more. Wash, rinse, repeat. All over the place. It's one of several things:

bad shooter
bad barrel (Palmetto State 1/7 16" MP CHF barrel)
bad scope (Nikon P223 held down with Nikon P series mount)
Bad ammo

I'm more accurate with my Ruger 10/22 with a Green Mountain 20" barrel @ 100 yards vs my AR


Started like this
rHyTCl.jpg


And kept going like this
jMhdWz.jpg


Ended up at this
zKj5oj.jpg


I eventually ended up at "**** it" and just shot at the steel target @ 300 and 500 yards
Click to expand...

Take a shooting class.
 
Well good news is it is not the scope, barrel, or shooter.

Just the loads I made. And I can live with that. It's the cheapest issue to fix
 
Rim Job said:
Well good news is it is not the scope, barrel, or shooter.

Just the loads I made. And I can live with that. It's the cheapest issue to fix
Click to expand...

thx for update. always appreciated when the OP follows up with their results. far too often we just hear some unusual issue and no followup!

did you try some other factory ammo types? once you find a load that works would make sense to consolidate to it. i've done this with XM193. only real hang-up i've found are the long barrels with tight twist that really need a 69 or higher grain projectile. in which case the XM193 is usually not a good match. i'm willing to live with that.
 
I shot 20 rounds of XM193 55grn and with 5 rounds I knew my reloads were the issue. I also had a box of ae223 to use as a backup to verify everything.

And why is shooting a steel target @ 300yds with a ruger 10/22 so much fun?
 
Rim Job said:
And why is shooting a steel target @ 300yds with a ruger 10/22 so much fun?
Click to expand...

BANG...wait for it......<ting> BANG........... BANG......... BANG...wait for it......<ting>


My kind of fun, too. The delay cracks me up, instant feedback and it's difficult enough without being impossible.
 

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