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AR15 - can't hit the broadside if a barn
- Thread starter Rim Job
- Start date
F
Finalygotabeltfed
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Dude at 500 yards your velocity is down somewhere like under 500 ft/s carrying like 25 ft-lbs of energy. distance is not a linear function. Most stories of shooting a 22lr at 500 yards are complete BS. The round is slow, light and has crappy ballistic coefficient.
i have stretched it to 300 yards but even a fart of wind or minor miscalculation and forget about it. Way off.
shoot 22lr at distance is just fun....try it. the key after 50-100yards is actually seeing your target.
snuck out today with the old Remington 513T with target sights , in the afternoon rain and wind.....I tossed out the worst shots(there are 7 shots L and R out side the ten ring) and factored them as weather related. 100 yards SR1 target. using sling and elbows on the bench. Im sure this rifle can do better...
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what is your barrel size where you would clamp the sight base....they are out there although you will most likely get one with the "gas system" and just not use it? I have a JP clamp on front base on my TacSol 22 LR upper for use with iro sights....looks odd but works.
So what bullets where you using with your reloads why do you think your reloads where so bad.
I think a few things happened.... 1. you where discouraged once you had seen your reloads didn't perform well from the getgo. Then you tried zeroing your scope while testing reloads. All no good and can only lead to bad out comes.
I use a large piece of masking paper.... wide 32" roll found at HomeDepot and such. I put 4 6" bulls on it. Then as long as I am some where on that paper I shoot for groups only. once you find a load zero to that load and forget it. or keep track of your ZEROs and return the settings back to the ammo you use the most.
At an Appleseed KD event, we shot steel (or tried to) out to 400 with .22's. It was interesting, and some of us made hits, but I wouldn't call it consistent.
Just a note even up close wind will toss 22lr standard velocity of 1100-1200fps your talking about 1.5" drift with a 15mph crosswind at 100 yards.. So wind and elevation are a huge part in shooting 22lr 200 yards and beyond.
Also depends on target size...
22lr is,not like 223 ......22lr has a point blank range of about 80 yards vs 223 to about 250yd.
With my 100 yard zero 22lr is going to drop around 28' at 500 yards. You would need 264 clicks of 1/4 moa elevation to zero your scope/sight!
Just a example with my target sights on my 513 from my 100 yard zero I have to come up 16moa just to be on paper at 200 (on paper= to inside 8 ring of SR target)
If you want to see more on 300 plus yard 22lr go over to rimfirecentral
Sorry for off topic
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=328
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I'll get this out of the way first: Yes, i know about EddieCoyle's classes. Bad timing and too far away.
Now with that taken care of, I measured the OAL of a factory ammo and compared it to what I have and I'm way too long. Yes I know that my powder will have different pressure spikes vs the factory ammo @ the same depths, but I think this is a good place to start
Don't expect much from 62grain 2nds. They are a 3 piece bullet construction and you have to ask yourself why are they 2nds.
I wish I had the time and money I wasted on pulls and 2nds. For 223 and 30-06.
Nosler cosmetic bless do well by me. Also the hornady bulk 55 grain fmj are some of the best sub 10 cent bullets.
They can't be much longer than 2.260" and still fit in the mag.
It's your bullets.
It's your bullets.
I ran the last of my 62 grain M855 bullets through my AR looking to see how low I could charge H4895 and still function the action....in preparation for my cast loads for my AR.
I didn't mind the M855 pulls for blasting especially when I bought them they where cheaper than factory new.
Now if and when you find them they are only a pennies or two less than much better choices
I didn't mind the M855 pulls for blasting especially when I bought them they where cheaper than factory new.
Now if and when you find them they are only a pennies or two less than much better choices
F
Finalygotabeltfed
If the contact point of the bullet seating die is on the ogive of the bullet, then inconsistent ogive shapes will give you inconsistent seating depths and therefore inconsistent OALs.
Here's the explanation: http://www.larrywillis.com/bullet-shape.html
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Threads like this interest me. You certainly have a mixed bag of people here at NES. From people that complain that they can't get under 1" groups at 200 yards to posts like this and everything in between. I know with factory loads the M855 @100 yards isn't the most accurate yet it will group at least 3 inches if not less that that.
It seems as if the reloads were the issue but there is something more going on here than that. Have you put the rifle in a rest to eliminate as much of the human element as possible?
It seems as if the reloads were the issue but there is something more going on here than that. Have you put the rifle in a rest to eliminate as much of the human element as possible?
No, it was the reloads I made up that was the issue. When I went to the range last week to check with factory ammo, I put the front end on the Caldwell sandbag and was getting accurate shots from the factory ammo.
That is some good reading and definitely gives me something else to measure
Since variable seating depth has been brought into this thread.....In the 80's, I shot High Power Rifle. As I reloaded my rounds, I used to weigh, measure and cull for all kinds of reasons. The one thing I couldn't get right was OAL. WTF? I started separating rounds by OAL and using similar rounds in a match. I was complaining about such when one of those REAL GOOD shooters explained how the Sierra 168's were made on at least 3 machines and mixed together. A light bulb appeared over my head. I took a ring gage and calipers and proceeded to sort those 168's into 3 groups that varied .030" on the ogive. I picked up a couple of points per match. Almost certainly because that was one thing less to worry about.
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If you bought surplus m855/s109 bullets they will vary in weight , length, diameter quality
EVEN new production M855 are a mess... good for plinking....
You say accuracy is better with factory ammo....how much better.
I have been posting a few comparisons pictures here now and again.
https://www.northeastshooters.com/v...-A-quick-comparison-of-different-bullets-ammo
Also the ocw testing has really helped me find a decent range of powder charges to dial in the accuracy.
If your looking to save some money the hornady 55fmj are about as cheap and good can go together. Recently you could pick them up for .07 cents each in bulk.
I have not had time to test any more loads.
I want to work up a 60 grain varmint load in my 18" CLE bull barrel just not the time to load up the test batch or shoot them.
https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/278036-OCW-revisited
On one of the AR forums there is a post showing just how inconsistent s109/m855
Between poor steel tip inconsistent lead base and even how badly deformed the bullet gets with cannelure.
Think it like this mil spec on M855 is tested from a accuracy barrel test jig.
The Mean average determines the acceptance of the accuracy.
Mean average doesn't test group size but rather the average distance of each shot from the center of the group. ....so don't get all bothered if bulk mil spec bullets don't shoot much better than 3moa.
I believe the median average shouldn't exceed 2.77" ? I had the mil spec data sheet on my old computer , it's out there.
One of the ret Armors at my club said the down and dirty test for accuracy for the AR and mil spec ammo has not changed. .1.77" group at 1000" (INCHES) is good enough for GI.
He got a hold of some blackhills M855a1 with the 77 grain OT ammo and he says it's consistently under 2" but he thinks the heavy crimp ruins the accuracy ?
EVEN new production M855 are a mess... good for plinking....
You say accuracy is better with factory ammo....how much better.
I have been posting a few comparisons pictures here now and again.
https://www.northeastshooters.com/v...-A-quick-comparison-of-different-bullets-ammo
Also the ocw testing has really helped me find a decent range of powder charges to dial in the accuracy.
If your looking to save some money the hornady 55fmj are about as cheap and good can go together. Recently you could pick them up for .07 cents each in bulk.
I have not had time to test any more loads.
I want to work up a 60 grain varmint load in my 18" CLE bull barrel just not the time to load up the test batch or shoot them.
https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/278036-OCW-revisited
On one of the AR forums there is a post showing just how inconsistent s109/m855
Between poor steel tip inconsistent lead base and even how badly deformed the bullet gets with cannelure.
Think it like this mil spec on M855 is tested from a accuracy barrel test jig.
The Mean average determines the acceptance of the accuracy.
Mean average doesn't test group size but rather the average distance of each shot from the center of the group. ....so don't get all bothered if bulk mil spec bullets don't shoot much better than 3moa.
I believe the median average shouldn't exceed 2.77" ? I had the mil spec data sheet on my old computer , it's out there.
One of the ret Armors at my club said the down and dirty test for accuracy for the AR and mil spec ammo has not changed. .1.77" group at 1000" (INCHES) is good enough for GI.
He got a hold of some blackhills M855a1 with the 77 grain OT ammo and he says it's consistently under 2" but he thinks the heavy crimp ruins the accuracy ?
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