AR15 in 22LR

Karl

Karl

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I'm thinking about either buying a dedicated AR15 in 22LR or buying a conversion kit for an AR I already have. I wanted to get a general consensus on what people are doing. I found the CMMG conversion kit for just over $100 and dedicated AR's are running about $450. If the dedicated AR is the way to go, it seems like the S&W M&P is more popular but I like the looks of the Colt better.

What do you think?
 
Karl said:
I'm thinking about either buying a dedicated AR15 in 22LR or buying a conversion kit for an AR I already have. I wanted to get a general consensus on what people are doing. I found the CMMG conversion kit for just over $100 and dedicated AR's are running about $450. If the dedicated AR is the way to go, it seems like the S&W M&P is more popular but I like the looks of the Colt better.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
If you want an awesome .22lr upper, look at Nordic Components upper. Totally new engineered upper, bolt uses very readily available 10-22 extractors, free float handguard, 3 different barrel lengths, including a 20" bull barrel.
http://shop.nordiccomp.com/NC22-22LR-Upper-18-750-SST-Barrel-Rifle-Length-Hand-Guard-NC22UP183.htm
 
I'm not a big fan of the conversion kits, myself. I haven't heard better than 'acceptable' accuracy with them - common twist rates for 223/556 are way faster than what 22LR expects, barrel dimensions, who knows. If you can live with okay accuracy and really want to be able to practice cheap with your regular rifle, still the way to go.

I built an upper with a Spikes barrel and bolt. I couldn't find the exact configuration I wanted from any of the regular 22lr suspects, so I put it together. I love shooting it - accurate, reliable, cheap, fun. The only functional downside is the bolt hold open not working, which does make operating the Spike a bit different from an AR.

But, if I had to do it again, I'd just buy an S&W M&P15-22. What I gained from building the Spike upper wasn't, I think, worth the effort it took. Shooting the thing is a blast, though!
 
Karl said:
I'm thinking about either buying a dedicated AR15 in 22LR or buying a conversion kit for an AR I already have. I wanted to get a general consensus on what people are doing. I found the CMMG conversion kit for just over $100 and dedicated AR's are running about $450. If the dedicated AR is the way to go, it seems like the S&W M&P is more popular but I like the looks of the Colt better.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

The drop in conversion kits are crap IMHO. Go with a dedicated upper. (As it happens, I have one for sale.)
 
If you want a precision, target quality .22LR upper, Compass Lake Engineering is the way to go.

Otherwise, I have no knowledge.
 
I have to disagree with jasons's well-reasoned, and thoroughly documented opinion, but then, I'm not selling anything.

I went 'round and 'round on this when I was deciding. One day it was a conversion, and the next it was a complete .22LR upper.

It all depends on what your goal(s) is (are). Both avenues will get you cheap shooting, training on your AR-platform, the ability to introduce new shooters in a non-threatening environment, cheap shooting, and the ability to shoot indoors at almost all ranges. Did I mention cheap shooting?

If you intend to shoot .22LR High Power, then a conversion isn't going to get you there. The typical 1:9 twist and larger bore on an AR upper just isn't conducive to true long-range accuracy. But you better be willing to spend extra for that accuracy, i.e. it better be something you require and use, because you're paying for it. Quite a bit, in fact, as you've already seen.

If what you want is acceptable 50-yard accuracy, then a drop-in conversion will get you there. They swap out in literally seconds, and can give you minute-of-clay at 50 yards. It's not like they spew bullets in a random pattern. A conversion and a few mags these days will run you less than $200.

For me, I don't shoot High Power, and I figured if I wanted tack-driving accuracy out of a .22LR, I wouldn't choose an AR-platform gun. Even after buying a dedicated .22LR upper, I'd still have the stock trigger to deal with, the adjustable stock, etc. If that's what I wanted, then I'd go get a 10/22 for a lot less money than any dedicated AR-upper. I could trick it out with stock and trigger for less than even the cheapest AR-upper. What I wanted was cheap shooting on my primary platform, so I went with a conversion. I'm extremely happy with my choice, and it has paid for itself many times over in ammo savings. I can break clays at the 50 yard line all day long (if I do my part), and that's enough for me.

Notice I didn't mention .22LR "AR-15's" like the Colt/Umarex M4 or the S&W M&P 1522. The reason is because they weren't around when I was making this decision (well, the Colt/Umarex had just come out, but I didn't feel like being a beta-tester).

Decide what your goals are, and choose accordingly. Both are good avenues for what they try to achieve.
 
ScottS said:
For me, I don't shoot High Power, and I figured if I wanted tack-driving accuracy out of a .22LR, I wouldn't choose an AR-platform gun. Even after buying a dedicated .22LR upper, I'd still have the stock trigger to deal with, the adjustable stock, etc. If that's what I wanted, then I'd go get a 10/22 for a lot less money than any dedicated AR-upper. I could trick it out with stock and trigger for less than even the cheapest AR-upper. What I wanted was cheap shooting on my primary platform, so I went with a conversion. I'm extremely happy with my choice, and it has paid for itself many times over in ammo savings. I can break clays at the 50 yard line all day long (if I do my part), and that's enough for me.

Notice I didn't mention .22LR "AR-15's" like the Colt/Umarex M4 or the S&W M&P 1522. The reason is because they weren't around when I was making this decision (well, the Colt/Umarex had just come out, but I didn't feel like being a beta-tester).

Decide what your goals are, and choose accordingly. Both are good avenues for what they try to achieve.
Click to expand...

Nicely put Scott. I'm looking for a fun gun not a MOA distance shooter. What conversion kit to you decide on?

Looking at dedicated rifles I'm partial to the Colt Ultramax. Does anyone know of a good head to head review of the Colt vs. the M&P?
 
I have both.

I would not go with either!!

Get a 22 rifle.

The conversion kits are easy to use but the powder left over from the 22's muck up your 223 chamber and when you go to shoot 223 with out cleaning the gun after shooting 22's the brass will not eject.

Fred
 
ScottS said:
If you intend to shoot .22LR High Power,
Click to expand...

WTF is .22LR High Power? [rofl]

Most people seem to want a .22LR AR so that they can practice shooting an AR without spending a ton on ammo. You could use a drop in kit, but if you use it a lot you'll eventually gum up your gas system. If you don't mind that more power to you, personally I think that's crap. You don't need to worry about that with a dedicated upper AND you get the right barrel so it will be more accurate.
 
flotter390 said:
The conversion kits are easy to use but the powder left over from the 22's muck up your 223 chamber and when you go to shoot 223 with out cleaning the gun after shooting 22's the brass will not eject.
Click to expand...

This has not been my experience, and I have put a stupidly large amount of .22LR through my AR. Having said that, I try to always shoot 2 or 3 full power (.223) rounds though the gun after a heavy .22LR session, but that's more to clear the gas tube than anything else.

Karl, I went with a USGI M261 conversion. I like the fact I can lock the bolt back and use the normal bolt release (small thing, I know), as well as the fact I can use the 10-round mag inserts in any pre-ban mag and not have to buy dedicated 10-round plastic mags. I sent Compass Lake Engineering (makers of excellent dedicated .22LR uppers that use the M261 exclusively) $15 for one of their improved, tool-steel, chisel-pointed firing pins. (The stock firing pin has a round, blunt point. The chisel point really smacks that rimfire primer). I got a couple "spare parts kits" from Sarco (here) and I'm all set to go, although I've never had to replace any parts.

The Atchisson/Ciener-based designs (Spike's, CMMG, etc) are excellent, as well. The CMMG kit comes in stainless steel, and the Spike's kit in a slippery electroless nickle finish, and the Spike's kit features an O-ring machined onto the chamber insert to better center it and seal gasses.

Comes down to personal preference, really.
 
jasons said:
WTF is .22LR High Power? [rofl]
Click to expand...

Sorry, make that ".22LR Service Rifle." Everything else remains the same.

jasons said:
Most people seem to want a .22LR AR so that they can practice shooting an AR without spending a ton on ammo. You could use a drop in kit, but if you use it a lot you'll eventually gum up your gas system. If you don't mind that more power to you, personally I think that's crap.
Click to expand...

As I said, that hasn't been my experience with a drop-in, and based on your comments, it hasn't been yours, either.

jasons said:
You don't need to worry about that with a dedicated upper AND you get the right barrel so it will be more accurate.
Click to expand...

And, you get to pay ~$450 for a .22LR. Whee.
 
I heard bad alot of things about the 15-22 but never handled one but I have a friend with a colt urmarex that i have put 100s of rounds through with him it does preform better then my gsg-5
 
ScottS said:
As I said, that hasn't been my experience with a drop-in, and based on your comments, it hasn't been yours, either.
Click to expand...

Dude, I have no idea who pissed in your cornflakes this morning but it sure wasn't me. You have no f-ing clue what my experience is. The first .22LR AR I had was just a regular AR upper with a drop-in kit. I didn't like it. I gave it away. If you like it, more power to you. Have fun cleaning it.
 
I just went through the same dilemma . I didnt want to junk up my .223 and I have seen too many convertion kits that have problems. After all the hoopla I decided to go with the M&P15-22 and havent had to regret it at all. I did have an extractor problem that I fixed in 30 seconds and have shot a bunch since. This is a very fun gun to shoot and helps when going to the big boy to shoot after. By the way $400 at four seasons a couple of weeks ago
 
Would the M&P 15-22 be a suitable gun to bring to an Appleseed? Seems like all anyone on this forum talks about using at one is the 10-22. I'm not a big Ruger fan so I'd be looking for an alternative.
 
The reason I'm leaning dedicated upper rather than considering is the M&P15-22 is that it doesn't weigh enough. It feels like a toy instead of a substitute for my 223 AR. If I just wanted a fun plinker, I'd go with the 15-22, but for cheap practice for action rifle / multigun, I'm thinking nordic upper.

I was gonna go conversion bolt, but I tried a friends in my AR and the reliability sucked.
 
jar said:
The reason I'm leaning dedicated upper rather than considering is the M&P15-22 is that it doesn't weigh enough. It feels like a toy instead of a substitute for my 223 AR. If I just wanted a fun plinker, I'd go with the 15-22, but for cheap practice for action rifle / multigun, I'm thinking nordic upper.

I was gonna go conversion bolt, but I tried a friends in my AR and the reliability sucked.
Click to expand...

Yep,for training you want a rifle that will transition and handle like you AR
 
jar said:
I was gonna go conversion bolt, but I tried a friends in my AR and the reliability sucked.
Click to expand...

For the record it did run flawlessly with a mil-spec (heavy, gritty, creepy, shitty) trigger. The timney trigger hits looked like my light striking 617.

I think it depends on your accuracy and budget requirements. I'll probably get a dedicated upper at some point but for 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of one I'm able to enjoy my current (and only) AR15 more often.
 
tacsol 22 AR upper

View attachment 13790I went with a Tactical solutions AR 22 upper added red dot and harris bi pod, orange range rats on the 100 yard burm dont stand a chance. I have so much fun with this I have not bothered to see what it can hold for groups @ 50 yards......why bother.

I purchased mine from gunkings.com on sale with free shipping.

http://www.gunkings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=105_81&products_id=583 currently with 2 mags...better now than last year.
I paid 289.00 shipped with one 10 round mag

I used the DelawareMachine lower group buy to build a dedicated lower for this also.
 
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I went with a Model 1 Sales dedicated upper (20 inch fluted ss barrel using the Ciener system) on a Stag lower that I built for 22 lr ammo and I am delighted with it. Reliability was a problem, but Blazers solved it (a lot or 22 LR conversions are ammunition sensitive). Weight is similar to my 223 and the Black Dog mags fit into 223 mag pouches. The new Black Dog mags even hold the bolt open on the last shot. They don't lock the bolt to the rear, but at least you won't drop the hammer on an empty chamber and hurt the firing pin.

The reason I built a dedicated 22LR lower is that many 223 match triggers won't ignite 22LR ammo. I went with an Accuracy Speaks trigger that gives you a crisp 4 lb trigger with the stock hammer spring. The final result cost about $1000 but was worth it in my opinion. I do almost all of my practice with it and figure that sooner or later it will pay for itself. Guns like this can last a lifetime so the initial expense is worth it. I went with a Ciener style conversion because they are the most common so that accessories (like the excellent Black Dog mags) and spare parts are plentiful. I started out with a DPMS dedicated 22 LR upper, but sold it because it was extremely light and didn't handle like my match gun. This unit used a sytem unique to DPMS and totally unlike the Ciener. DPMS has ceased production of this upper and parts are no longer available. Be careful when buying one of these uppers as some may not remain in production as long as the Ciener. Sooner or later some of the small parts are going to break.
 

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