http://www.centerfiresystems.com/ar15m16gaspistonconversionkitpartar-gaspiston.aspx
Did anybody try this yet?
Did anybody try this yet?
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AR15/M16 Gas Piston Conversion Kit
- Thread starter JackO
- Start date
There's always a debate about these things - some thinking they are a $300.00 solution in search of a problem and for others, the next great invention for the AR-15 - a must have. I fall more toward group 1, but don't see the harm if it trips your trigger. I see it as adding more moving parts to the weapon. My M4 runs like a top, (and I have yet to clean it) and I'd rather spend the money on ammo, or another build...
SemiAutoSam
Banned
It looks a little better constructed than the ares kit but I just phoned them and they dont make it for a 20 inch barreled upper.
WAHHHHH
Oh well maybe Ill just up convert it or build my own for a 20 inch.
I do like the way the gas cylinder part attaches to the barrel it looks more secure than the Ares setup.
I found the Ares website but it does not look like they build the gas piston conversion any longer.
http://www.aresdefense.com/index.html
ETA: I would like to know why the std AR15 cannot use the same system as the AR57 uses.
IE no gas system only blowback.
WAHHHHH
Oh well maybe Ill just up convert it or build my own for a 20 inch.
I do like the way the gas cylinder part attaches to the barrel it looks more secure than the Ares setup.
I found the Ares website but it does not look like they build the gas piston conversion any longer.
http://www.aresdefense.com/index.html
ETA: I would like to know why the std AR15 cannot use the same system as the AR57 uses.
IE no gas system only blowback.
I don't think you can do straight blowback on a locking bolt.
I just gave you rep points for your avatar though.
I like it too.
SemiAutoSam
Banned
Why would it have to be a locking bolt ?
Is the chamber pressure of the .223 cartridge too much for blowback ?
I realise the 5.7x28 is a smaller cartridge but it doesn't use a locking bolt.
I guess I should call the MFG and ask.
Thanks for the rep.
Is there a post that explains the current rep levels ?
Is the chamber pressure of the .223 cartridge too much for blowback ?
I realise the 5.7x28 is a smaller cartridge but it doesn't use a locking bolt.
I guess I should call the MFG and ask.
Thanks for the rep.
Is there a post that explains the current rep levels ?
I think so. The buffer spring would have to be strong to the point where you couldn't operate the charging handle.
ETA: I could be full of shit though.
I haven't seen one.
It seems to me there really is something to a gas piston system. Afterall, every other combat rifle (AK47, M14, FAL, Sig 556, etc, etc) uses one.
I'd like one for my AR just so it stays cleaner but I don't think I will get one until they're standardized.
I'd like one for my AR just so it stays cleaner but I don't think I will get one until they're standardized.
And the bolts on those rifles run on rails, preventing bolt tilt. This is the problem with conversions on the AR. Plus the DI pushes the bolt forward, floating it while it unlocks so you have less wear while unlocking.
ranger4-7
Army Veteran
I don't think anyone would argue that the gas piston isn't a fine system. However, I would argue that so too is the direct impingement system. For proof, I offer 40 plus years of outstanding service from the AR platform. For those that would bring up the initial issues experienced in Vietnam, I believe you'll find that those were related more to changes made in the propellant of the round, lack of chrome bore, and a foolish approach taken where troops were told the weapon didn't need any cleaning.
They use basically the same BCG with a different Gas key (solid). The bolts may have anti-tilt tabs on them, which tries to prevent the end of the bolt from tipping when entering the buffer tube.
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Yeah, my only real complaint is that I'd like it to run cleaner. My AR (an M&P15FT) has been very reliable for me. It seems like a gas piston system might be a bit less accurate also due to reciprocating mass.
I think you're correct. Just like in pistols where the line between blowback and some sort of locked breech is usually between 9x18 and 9x19 in power level. The other option is making the bolt heavier. Blowback 9x19 pistols are rare, but IIRC most 9x19 carbines are blowback operated. I wonder if a depleted uranium bolt would be heavy enough for a blowback AR in 223.
The Tommy gun is a blowback design, and it weighs half a ton and takes two men and a boy to operate the charging handle.
The HK USC is blowback also. You wouldn't want that bolt landing on your toe, big old chuck of metal. you could feel it cycling. Other than .22 I think blowback designs just proves the engineers were to lazy to design something better.
I don't remember an issue with the charging handle, but the only one I've fired is an open bolt full auto, so the semi versions may be different. It does weigh a ton though. The weight makes it great for a first FA experience (it was mine). The semi-auto versions aren't good for much more than looking really cool imo.
Check out this PDF, it might just convince you on the gas piston system, and also sheds a little light on the 40 years of service.
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Schatz.pdf
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Schatz.pdf
While it is true that the recoil spring (buffer or otherwise) would have to be on the order of one that operates a garage door, the real problem is timing, and technically, it is not the recoil spring that times a blowback but the mass of the breech bolt.
For what it is worth, while I haven't studied the design of the Five-Seven, I sort of doubt that it is a true blowback.
SemiAutoSam
Banned
If this is the case then how does the Port Firing Weapon work ?
As it it has no gas system from what I remember.
Wheres the gas system in this one?
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=9087366
As it it has no gas system from what I remember.
Wheres the gas system in this one?
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=9087366
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If this is the case then how does the Port Firing Weapon work ?
As it it has no gas system from what I remember.
Wheres the gas system in this one?
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=9087366
It's under the handguard, like all AR's
On the other hand, once upon a time all combat rifles used a bolt action...
IMO, a gas piston, while reliable in many systems, is just one more moving part that can fail, especially in aftermarket kits of dubious quality. Until these AR piston systems are tested extensively under combat conditions... why bother?
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Yup, and I doubt there's room for a bolt massive enough - depleted Uranium notwithstanding.
It could be. People that own them hate to hear this, but ballistically speaking, the 5.7 is nothing more than a very expensive .22 WMR. Check it out:
CCI Maxi Mag .22 WMR
Bullet Weight: 30gr
Velocity: 2200 fps
Energy: 322 ft/lbs
Cost per 2000 rounds: $436
FN SS197SR 5.7x28mm
Bullet Weight: 40gr
Velocity: 2034 fps
Energy: 256 ft/lbs
Cost per 2000 rounds: $720
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SemiAutoSam
Banned
Here is some decent info on the AR57, Maybe this will tell you if its a true blowback or you can tell me what such a design would look like.
The info below from the AR57 website calls it a recoil driven action.
I own 2 of them.
ETA: I sold one.
Want one ?
The info below from the AR57 website calls it a recoil driven action.
I own 2 of them.
ETA: I sold one.
Want one ?
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Thanks anyway. I'm all set.
