AR15 - Primer Popping Out of Spent Case

P-14

P-14

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I just got some Silver State 77gr. OTM ammo for NES-027. Fired one round and the primer wasn't in the spent case when I picked it up after the shot. As far as I can tell, it's not in the lower.

  • How many have had a problem with primers leaving the case and falling into the lower?
  • Will this cause problems with FTF?
  • How often does this occur?
  • How do you remove a primer in the lower when in the field?
  • What can be done to protect the lower from popped primers?

I'm not paranoid about it, but I want the rifle to be verrrrrrry reliable.

Any advice is appreciated. Thx.
 
P-14 said:
I just got some Silver State 77gr. OTM ammo for NES-027. Fired one round and the primer wasn't in the spent case when I picked it up after the shot. As far as I can tell, it's not in the lower.

  • How many have had a problem with primers leaving the case and falling into the lower?
  • Will this cause problems with FTF?
  • How often does this occur?
  • How do you remove a primer in the lower when in the field?
  • What can be done to protect the lower from popped primers?

I'm not paranoid about it, but I want the rifle to be verrrrrrry reliable.

Any advice is appreciated. Thx.
Click to expand...

Is your barrel chambered in .223 or 5.56? Is the ammo .223 or 5.56? I have had this happen from firing 5.56 ammo in a .223 chambered rifle, before I knew better. The primer ended up in the upper, jamming the bolt. The popped primer was from overpressure if I recall. I stopped using the 5.56 in the rifle, and the problem went away.
 
I bought it from White Oak Armament and it is a fine barrel. Description is as follows:

White Oak Armament SPECIAL PURPOSE RIFLE (SPR) Match Barrel

This SPR .223mm barrel is the product of the Army's Squad Designated Marksman Rifle Development Program, which was assigned the task of improving the accuracy of the standard issue rifle against targets out to 600 meters. This would allow the valued marksman or sniper the ability to stay concealed within the squad by carrying a weapon that looked similar to the rest. It was found that by carrying a dissimilar rifle, he had become an easily recognizable high-priority target. We offer this barrel to the tactical user or casual shooter interested in the ability hit distant targets with issued or mag length ammunition (emphasis mine).

· 18 inch 1-7 twist Match Grade Stainless Steel barrel
· Chambered to give excellent performance and reliability with a wide variety of ammo
· Light weight contour ( total weight of 41 ounces )
· 1/2x28 threaded muzzle to accept standard .223 flash hider or muzzle brake
· Choice of Rifle or Mid-Length gas system
· Choice of Standard or M-4 Ramped Barrel extensions
Click to expand...

Doesn't this mean that it'll shoot anything that will fit in the mag?
 
Good morning....
I was waiting to see if anyone mentioned that it could be a head-space issue with excessive pressures... I know that with my military rifles, I always check chamber with a field gauge (bolt/action should not close on field gauge) before I test fire....

- Does this "primer issue" happen with different ammo
- Upper official stamped for .223 or 5.56?
- Ammo you are shooting - nato or commercial?

Other thing that I would do is if you bought the upper new from a vendor, I would call them and explain and they will probably let you know if an exchange is necessary.

Just my questions/observations....
 
Last edited:
from reloading the ABC's of reloading:
1. It can be from an overpressurized load.
2. It can be a headspace issue

How do the rest of the rounds look? Do the spent primers look flattened out instead of rounded at the edges?
 
Ammo is commercial: http://www.ssarmory.com/556ammunition-2.aspx

Ammo is 5.56mm

Barrel is stainless steel and .223, but apparently will handle anything that will fit in the magazine. It should handle the pressures with no problem.

Go-no go chamber checks were good.

Only happened the first time I used this ammo. Did not try a second round after the primer popped out. Have shot other ammo with no issues.

Just seeing if this is a problem with people who shoot ARs a lot.
 
I got this from this site: http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html
I would suggest you call the manufacturer to see if you are interpreting their statements correctly.


"NATO chambers have a long leade1. SAAMI chambers are tighter and have a short leade. SAAMI chambers are designed for increased accuracy, but will yield dangerously high pressures in guns using military ammunition and/or which are subject to high volume shooting. Under such high pressures, a primer may back out completely, drop into the action and cause the firearm to stop working."

As it says in your earlier statement, your barrel is stamped .223, not 5.56. I would be certain of the chambering, as 5.56 has 60,000 cup pressure, 10,000 cup more than .223 and is not recommended in rifles chambered for .223.
 
Last edited:
Kenny474 said:
I got this from this site: http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html
I would suggest you call the manufacturer to see if you are interpreting their statements correctly.


"NATO chambers have a long leade1. SAAMI chambers are tighter and have a short leade. SAAMI chambers are designed for increased accuracy, but will yield dangerously high pressures in guns using military ammunition and/or which are subject to high volume shooting. Under such high pressures, a primer may back out completely, drop into the action and cause the firearm to stop working."

As it says in your earlier statement, your barrel is stamped .223, not 5.56. I would be certain of the chambering, as 5.56 has 60,000 cup pressure, 10,000 cup more than .223 and is not recommended in rifles chambered for .223.
Click to expand...

Great advice! Thanks.
 
The primer is probably in the lower and sooner or later, it WILL cause a failure to fire due to messing with your trigger.

Those little buggers can hide in the unlikliest of places.
 
PatMcD said:
The primer is probably in the lower and sooner or later, it WILL cause a failure to fire due to messing with your trigger.

Those little buggers can hide in the unlikliest of places.
Click to expand...

I'm more in line with the theory that it was probably ejected with the casing.
 
PatMcD said:
I've seen too many alibis in matches resulting from primers in the lower to not assume that's where it landed.
If it were me, I'd yank the trigger to be sure.
Click to expand...

That's the kind of info that I need! +1

This is what Wiki says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15

The most common result of firing military 5.56x45mm ammunition in a .223 Remington chamber is that the primer can be forced out of the case by chamber pressure, often resulting in the primer becoming lodged somewhere in the action of the rifle, and disassembly of the rifle is often necessary to remove the jammed primer. Military specification chambers typically have a more open throat area producing less pressure and can handle both types of ammunition.
Click to expand...

  • Isn't there a gizmo to put in the lower to keep primers from jamming them?
  • Anybody use one successfully?
 
I was told by my dad, "If it don't say, it aint" .223 it reads there for it is. My lowers both S&W and stag both say 5.56/.223 I know its only the lowers. My stag barrel says 5.56 also S&W lower is awaiting arrival of upper!
I have also wondered this about the saiga line of guns. My friend bought one in .223?
is this not safe for 5.56?? I know he shot a good amount of UMC through it??? I would try the ammo in 5.56 chamber and see.
 
I would think that P-14's White Oak is chambered Wylde - that means it's designed to digest just about anything - 5.56 or .223. I also seem to remember a "receiver rug" available somewhere, that keeps stuff from falling into the trigger group. Frankly, I'd give the ammo another go and see what's what, but that's just me....[wink]
 
MassMark said:
Frankly, I'd give the ammo another go and see what's what, but that's just me....[wink]
Click to expand...

I was going to give it another go, but not before digesting whatever wisdom I received from NESland.

I do not think it is a Wylde chamber. They were more money. I'm going to talk to White Oak on Monday and see what they think too.

I am sure that the SS barrel will take the 5.56 pressure with no problem. But, if I keep blowing primers out, I may have to BUY ANOTHER White Oak BARREL with a Wylde chamber. [smile]
 
I thought everything Hollinger put out was with a Wylde chamber, but I could be wrong.
I don't think it's an issue with the chamber; I think it's ammo related. Try other brands/handloads. Try the rest of the problem ammo. It might have been just that one round.
 
P-14 said:
I just got some Silver State 77gr. OTM ammo for NES-027. Fired one round and the primer wasn't in the spent case when I picked it up after the shot. As far as I can tell, it's not in the lower.

  • How many have had a problem with primers leaving the case and falling into the lower?
  • Will this cause problems with FTF?
  • How often does this occur?
  • How do you remove a primer in the lower when in the field?
  • What can be done to protect the lower from popped primers?

I'm not paranoid about it, but I want the rifle to be verrrrrrry reliable.

Any advice is appreciated. Thx.
Click to expand...

Primers can back out of the case due to over pressure, headspace, or just plain loose primer pockets. It should not happen and if it does for different types of ammo, it is most likely the weapon although seeing the brand, I doubt it. White Oak does a fine job but everyone can make a mistake once in a while. What chamber does your rifle have? Most of the stuff I've seen from them have Wilde chambers, somewhat generous in diameters but short in the throat, not that that is a bad thing. If your ammo fits in the mag, the throat shouldn't be a problem. Try a quality brand of ammo and take it from there.

Primers can fall into the trigger group and keep the weapon from firing. Some triggers are worse than others, what do you have? If you blow a primer, usually you just need to swing open the upper from the lower and turn the rifle upside down and give it a shake. Unless it's stuck in the trigger, it should fall out. With my Jewel triggers, the primers always seem to find their way into a bad place, expecially in rapid fire:)

Bob
 
According to the SSA website, all their 5.56mm ammo is re-manufactured with LC cases. Hard to know what the pedigree of each case is. It could have been fired in a SAW at one point or who knows what. I'd just shoot the stuff and see if you have some more pop.

B
 
I don't remember what site I saw it on, but I have seen a polymer piece that you install in the receiver to keep primers and other crap from jamming up your AR. I will search for it and give you a link if I can find it. It's worth a shot.
Kenny
 

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