Army Aviators told that they owe another three years??

Rat187 said:
Jesus even @vcman is laughing.... šŸ˜‚
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man , at least the pentagon dont treat it troops that bad,you guys got it easy,you could alway go awol,

here what the communist did to my father in law back during the 3rd indochina war, they told him that they need to send his ass to cambodia for a few weeks to help out the cambodian people. as soon as myfatherinlaw got to his base camp in cambodia the base commader told him that :" comrades ,even though you was told that you only gona be here for a few weeks there a war right here, we will need to stay here for a few years to fight em ". my father in law was like ....."shit,i will never made it home".

then he walk around the camp, he found a few bodies, he took a closer look , he found his friend . first thing my fatherinlaw did in cambodia is to volunteer to buried his friend.
 
Rat187 said:
Eff him...a boomer
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Dad was born only a couple years ahead of the 'boomer' generation. He had already been born before SSG Gramps shipped out to the Pacific with the 32nd Infantry Division, aka Red Arrow Brigade, which had more days in combat (654) than any other American division. Gramps didn't come home until 1946 when he finished some occupation duty in Fukuoka. I guess he had some catching up to do as my aunts were born fairly close together after that. So Dad's sisters were officially boomers. Anyway, I don't think it is anywhere near as difficult now for service members to have a family and don't get all the complaining as if it is some great injustice.

No doubt contingency for war with China is a part of this. If anything, mandating longer service commitments for Army aviators will be another message sent to China. There is some global sentiment that war with China is likely by 2025.
 
not new guy said:
Reinterpreting an existing contract and taking 3 more years of their lives sounds like a great way to address retention and recruiting issues. [thinking]
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Yep. There are so many things now that I don't blame anyone who just bounces after their first contract. And that's many right now. After my day today, with the shear lunacy of everything, I felt like I was in a simulation. Nothing resembled what I understand as reality.

Now that I think about it, maybe all this nonsense with good people leaving is only leaving two groups of people. The truly dedicated and the incompetent.

On the plus side, I learned a new term, that I'm probably going to start using a lot. Referring to people as 'strawberries', because they bruise easily.
 
vcman said:
man , at least the pentagon dont treat it troops that bad,you guys got it easy,you could alway go awol,

here what the communist did to my father in law back during the 3rd indochina war, they told him that they need to send his ass to cambodia for a few weeks to help out the cambodian people. as soon as myfatherinlaw got to his base camp in cambodia the base commader told him that :" comrades ,even though you was told that you only gona be here for a few weeks there a war right here, we will need to stay here for a few years to fight em ". my father in law was like ....."shit,i will never made it home".

then he walk around the camp, he found a few bodies, he took a closer look , he found his friend . first thing my fatherinlaw did in cambodia is to volunteer to buried his friend.
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I will say this, without an ounce of shame what your father in law did was commendable, they went in for 18 months and got the eff out. At the same time, the Americans supported Pol Pot how do you square that circle?
 
richc said:
When I see this I wonder if the powers making this decision know something we don't about near term conflict.
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The retention rates are killing all the services. Poor leadership, woke decisions and a decent private economy just make them walk away.
Uzi2 said:
A shit battalion commander or company/battery commander will make or break the morale of people under them.
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Truth!
 
I can see a lot of grounded aircraft in the futureā€¦ā€¦.all sorts of mechanical and electrical problems that will take forever to fix.
 
Rat187 said:
I will say this, without an ounce of shame what your father in law did was commendable, they went in for 18 months and got the eff out. At the same time, the Americans supported Pol Pot how do you square that circle?
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square that circle? not sure wut you mean. back when i was dating my wife my father in law told me a few stories, i only go by what he said , all i know is that all goverments are a**h***s, and wars are on the way, best try to stay out of it.
 
Mountain said:
Didn't stop my parents from having me pop out just prior to Dad shipping out to Vietnam. Dad flew 3 tours and over 200 combat missions for the Marines while Mom did her best back home. I knew a kid my age whose USMC pilot dad didn't come home. Not to make light of helicopter crew's service over the last 10 years, but how many were shot down and/or KIA? Not that I have a right to do so, but I think @Skysoldier is perfectly justified in breaking out that tiny violin.
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What did your Dad fly?
My Father in Law flew A4s.
My Wife and her Brother shared your experience.
FIL retired out of NAS South Weymouth.
 
Cap'n Mike said:
What did your Dad fly?
My Father in Law flew A4s.
My Wife and her Brother shared your experience.
FIL retired out of NAS South Weymouth.
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Dad started flying A4's a little but they needed helicopter pilots in combat so that's where he had nearly all his hours. As was typical for the USMC, they first entered the war with equipment from the last war and were flying UH-34's. The UH-34's could really take a beating and look like Swiss cheese yet still fly. However, they were made with so much magnesium that if they ever caught fire it was critical to ditch as quickly as possible. Dad saw a couple take hits and catch fire. One crew made it to the ground in time but unfortunately the other did not. Magnesium fires burn so intensely they cannot be extinguished via most methods. I have read a report of one downed 34 with no recoverable remains due to the fire intensity. Sadly, I read another report of a crew jumping out rather than be burned to death.

Thankfully for him the airlines would recognize helicopter hours so after the war he flew out of LAX for one of the majors.
 
Mountain said:
Dad started flying A4's a little but they needed helicopter pilots in combat so that's where he had nearly all his hours. As was typical for the USMC, they first entered the war with equipment from the last war and were flying UH-34's. The UH-34's could really take a beating and look like Swiss cheese yet still fly. However, they were made with so much magnesium that if they ever caught fire it was critical to ditch as quickly as possible. Dad saw a couple take hits and catch fire. One crew made it to the ground in time but unfortunately the other did not. Magnesium fires burn so intensely they cannot be extinguished via most methods. I have read a report of one downed 34 with no recoverable remains due to the fire intensity. Sadly, I read another report of a crew jumping out rather than be burned to death.

Thankfully for him the airlines would recognize helicopter hours so after the war he flew out of LAX for one of the majors.
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My FIL flew Skyhawks out of Chu Lai during the war. He got a Distinguished flying cross for something and a USMC Ground Combat Ribbon? (How does an aviator get that? Shot down maybe?), as well as many other awards. He passed before I met my Wife, so I never had the honor of meeting him.
 
Cap'n Mike said:
My FIL flew Skyhawks out of Chu Lai during the war. He got a Distinguished flying cross for something and a USMC Ground Combat Ribbon? (How does an aviator get that? Shot down maybe?), as well as many other awards. He passed before I met my Wife, so I never had the honor of meeting him.
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I bet he was a FAC for awhile. Can you find out? I'd be curious about that also.

I wasn't a Marine, but my understanding of the CAR implies that the shoot-down scenario is unlikely. He'd have very likely been captured in that case, and wound up with a POW Medal also.
 
Cap'n Mike said:
My FIL flew Skyhawks out of Chu Lai during the war. He got a Distinguished flying cross for something and a USMC Ground Combat Ribbon? (How does an aviator get that? Shot down maybe?), as well as many other awards. He passed before I met my Wife, so I never had the honor of meeting him.
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Besides the frequent smaller attacks by sappers, there were a couple bigger attacks on Chu Lai. I'd guess that the ground ribbon was awarded for fighting one of those attacks.
 
Commissioned officers can always resign their commissions. They donā€™t have the same kinds of contracts that enlisted do and serve at the pleasure of the President.

Suck it up butter cup.
 
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PappyM3 said:
Commissioned officers can always resign their commissions. They donā€™t have the same kinds of contracts that enlisted do and serve at the pleasure of the President.

Suck it up butter cup.
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Well... they can always request to resign. It's the Army's choice to allow that. That used to be a formality at certain career points: your S1 knew what they were, and would tell you what to put in the request memo and what orders not to accept. Want to get out after two years? Just decline a promotion to 1LT. Want to get out after 3.5-4? Decline promotion to captain. Want to get out after 4.5 or so? Decline orders to the Advanced Course.

If you incur an ADSO, you very well could have a contractual obligation depending on the orders you accepted and the policies of the school you graduated from. It's ALWAYS up to the needs of the Army at any point up to your eighth anniversary of accepting your commission, technically.
 
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Cap'n Mike said:
He got a Distinguished flying cross for something and a USMC Ground Combat Ribbon? (How does an aviator get that?
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Reminds me of a story about a Phantom pilot that was dressed down by his CO because of reports that he was not flying low enough during close air support. The next day he returned to the field and his CO was waiting for him. The pilot got out, walked to the rear wheel and pulled a bunch of tree debris from the wheel well and held it out to the CO saying, "Is THIS close enough?"
 
smokey-seven said:
Reminds me of a story about a Phantom pilot that was dressed down by his CO because of reports that he was not flying low enough during close air support. The next day he returned to the field and his CO was waiting for him. The pilot got out, walked to the rear wheel and pulled a bunch of tree debris from the wheel well and held it out to the CO saying, "Is THIS close enough?"
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Here's a typical Phantom run during the heavy TET-68 fighting, the jets run is about right pulling up about 1500'-2000' juxtaposed to a Huey gunship still diving at 400'. I doubt very the Phantom pilots brush in the wheel-well story, I suspect too much liquid courage at the O-Club. Hey if the CO was happy...šŸ¤© Photo by grateful grunts of 'C' 3/22nd, 25th Infantry Division 2/68. RSPFE6637.jpeg
 
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smokey-seven said:
Reminds me of a story about a Phantom pilot that was dressed down by his CO because of reports that he was not flying low enough during close air support. The next day he returned to the field and his CO was waiting for him. The pilot got out, walked to the rear wheel and pulled a bunch of tree debris from the wheel well and held it out to the CO saying, "Is THIS close enough?"
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That story is crap. First, Phantoms don't have tailwheels. Second, except on approach to the carrier, the landing gear will be stowed and the landing gear doors closed, so there is no chance of foliage winding up in the wheel well on an attack run.
 
M1911 said:
That story is crap. First, Phantoms don't have tailwheels. Second, except on approach to the carrier, the landing gear will be stowed and the landing gear doors closed, so there is no chance of foliage winding up in the wheel well on an attack run.
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Shhhhhhhhhhh.

You're ruining a great story from the VFW Files with your "logic" and "common sense."
 
Picton said:
I bet he was a FAC for awhile. Can you find out? I'd be curious about that also.

I wasn't a Marine, but my understanding of the CAR implies that the shoot-down scenario is unlikely. He'd have very likely been captured in that case, and wound up with a POW Medal also.
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I figured maybe he punched out over enemy territory, got into a scuffle and then was rescued by the Jolly Greens before he got captured.
The Chu Lai attack seems more likely though.

My wife thinks his DD214 is somewhere in the old family photos and papers she has. I should just have her request a copy.

We have his retirement award with all his medals, awards and dates of rank from Private all the way up to Major when he retired in 1978.
Thats where most of my info comes from.
 
Cap'n Mike said:
I figured maybe he punched out over enemy territory, got into a scuffle and then was rescued by the Jolly Greens before he got captured.
The Chu Lai attack seems more likely though.

My wife thinks his DD214 is somewhere in the old family photos and papers she has. I should just have her request a copy.

We have his retirement award with all his medals, awards and dates of rank from Private all the way up to Major when he retired in 1978.
Thats where most of my info comes from.
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I strongly suspect a scuffle before getting yanked out is unlikely. I can think of several other much more probable possibilities. Base attack is one, but FAC is just as likely. The 214 wouldn't necessarily tell you much about the circumstances of the award, though it would list his qualifications if he were a FAC.
 
Picton said:
I strongly suspect a scuffle before getting yanked out is unlikely. I can think of several other much more probable possibilities. Base attack is one, but FAC is just as likely. The 214 wouldn't necessarily tell you much about the circumstances of the award, though it would list his qualifications if he were a FAC.
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The two gold pins on his plaque are of an A4 Skyhawks and an A7 Corsair, which I assume symbolized the 2 airframes he was Qualified to fly?
 
M1911 said:
A friend of mineā€™s son was a helicopter mechanic in the 101st and participated in the invasion of Iraq. He got out just before the stop loss. He used his GI bill to get a commercial helicopter pilotā€™s license and to also convert his mechanic experience into an A&P. Near the end of his first year out, he was called back in ā€” I think his first year out he was part of the ready reserve and subject to recall.

Given all his experience with flying and maintaining helicopters, the Pentagon, with its typical sense of humor, assigned him to a counter-air battery.
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Heā€™s lucky he got that. All those dudes were combat replacements regardless of MOS when they were in
 
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