ATF raids home of Clinton Airport's manager

[PappyM3]

Regarding taping over cameras, I think there may be tactical reasons for this. In the Las Vegas shooting, the shooter put wireless cameras in the hallways outside his room. He used those cameras to shoot through walls at officers moving down the hall towards his door. Reportedly, he had success putting suppressive fire through the walls, and was able to control that space. So I can see reasons for blocking cameras while people are exposed outside the door.

Body cameras are a different issue. No one in law enforcement should have a tactical gear loadout that does not include a body camera. It should be an automatic demotion or suspension if the camera is not worn and running during any operation that requires a tactical team. Note that I am not looking to demote or suspend officers, I just want to insure that body cameras become part of organizational culture.

Tactical reasons if they need to assault the house for a barricaded suspect who’s either holding hostages or is an immediate threat/danger to others.

But do you know what is a better tactic for a search warrant for a middle class white collar family man with no criminal record? Actually following the search warrant parameters and go during the daytime.. ideally in suits and knock on his door. Or go at any time when he’s known to be at work.

They chose the absolute worst “tactical” way to execute the search warrant. So it voids any defense of tactical reasons for taping the camera.

 

[PappyM3]

You gave clear and objective evidence for covering cameras in dangerous situations that CANNOT be avoided.

Now tell me why if they believed THIS guy might hunker down and fight from within his house and then determined the most advantageous location to the safe arrest was still determined to be his home?
If they say that they covered his cameras because they thought he would fight then then they clearly went in with forethought of him not making through the raid - in other words, they murdered him.

They didn’t even have an arrest warrant. It was a search warrant.

 

[M1911]

They didn’t even have an arrest warrant. It was a search warrant.

And it wasn't like they were searching for drugs which he might flush down the toilet. There was no effing reason for a no-knock warrant at 0-dark-30 (other than the fact that they wanted to kill and/or terrorize the guy).

 

[namedpipes]

Question is, did they go in with the intent of killing him, or just with the understanding that was a possible, or even likely, outcome and didn't care?

So at a minimum, depraved indifference to human life.

His death actually makes their position stronger.

He can't defend himself and his family may want to forget about it all.

And the actual targets (us) will wonder if we're next. This execution will have the effect they want, even of they someday shell out a few bushels of monopoly money (doubtful)

 

[Dennis in MA]

Regarding taping over cameras, I think there may be tactical reasons for this. In the Las Vegas shooting, the shooter put wireless cameras in the hallways outside his room. He used those cameras to shoot through walls at officers moving down the hall towards his door. Reportedly, he had success putting suppressive fire through the walls, and was able to control that space. So I can see reasons for blocking cameras while people are exposed outside the door.

Body cameras are a different issue. No one in law enforcement should have a tactical gear loadout that does not include a body camera. It should be an automatic demotion or suspension if the camera is not worn and running during any operation that requires a tactical team. Note that I am not looking to demote or suspend officers, I just want to insure that body cameras become part of organizational culture.

ATF "logic" was so that people couldn't. . . . .


Now you might want to put your Starbucks or co-cola down on this one. . . . . . . . . . . . .



Criminals might steal their hand signals.



Either you're a JBT or a moron. Either way, your department needs a complete bleaching and replacement. Hell, I'd be OK with people wandering around with unlicensed likker and cigarettes for a year as well as barely maintaining the portal and Form transactions in order to rebuild ATF. Damn. Just damn.

 

[Dennis in MA]

And it wasn't like they were searching for drugs which he might flush down the toilet. There was no effing reason for a no-knock warrant at 0-dark-30 (other than the fact that they wanted to kill and/or terrorize the guy).

Warrant said DAY TIME, IIRC.

 

[pastera]

Warrant said DAY TIME, IIRC.

Twilight, Dawn, and Dusk

Twilight is the time of the day when the Sun illuminates the Earth's atmosphere even though it is below the horizon and not directly visible.

www.timeanddate.com

From memory the raid started about 45 minutes before sunrise which would place in the night or at best in astronomical twilight - neither of which would be a plain reading of day time.

The ATF chose to operate outside the parameters called out in the search warrant therefore should be stripped of immunity and charged for their actions (armed home invasion, assault with deadly weapon for each person in the home, homicide)

 

[ddeck]

Twilight, Dawn, and Dusk

Twilight is the time of the day when the Sun illuminates the Earth's atmosphere even though it is below the horizon and not directly visible.

www.timeanddate.com

From memory the raid started about 45 minutes before sunrise which would place in the night or at best in astronomical twilight - neither of which would be a plain reading of day time.

The ATF chose to operate outside the parameters called out in the search warrant therefore should be stripped of immunity and charged for their actions (armed home invasion, assault with deadly weapon for each person in the home, homicide)

The warrant specifically said the timeframe was between 6 a.m. and 10 p.m. The warrant has two options one for "daytime" between those hours or "nighttime." ATF chose to execute it at 6 am. Since this was right before the DST change, if it had been executed one week later it would have been light out.

 

[pastera]

The warrant specifically said the timeframe was between 6 a.m. and 10 p.m. The warrant has two options one for "daytime" between those hours or "nighttime." ATF chose to execute it at 6 am. Since this was right before the DST change, if it had been executed one week later it would have been light out.

Warrant

The text states "In the daytime 6:00 AM to 10:00 PM"
A plain text reading says that all of the words have meaning therefore both conditions exist - it must be daytime and the hours cannot be outside 6 am to 10 pm.
there are times of the year that it will be daylight before 6 am (Sunrise and sunset times in Arkansas)

My position is that any legal document should be interpreted in the manner most favorable to the non-moving party - in this case would be the dead guy. Therefore a strict reading of the times would say that the ATF did not properly serve the warrant since they were within the clock limits but not the during daytime.