• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Bad shoot?

Tinkermatic

Tinkermatic

Joined
Jun 9, 2018
Messages
3,667
Likes
7,124
Location
MA
Feedback: 38 / 0 / 0
Haven’t seen this anywhere and I rarely start newsworthy threads. Mods, please feel free to move to off-topic if deemed more appropriate or delete if dupe.

Just came across this video. I’m not a cop and have never leveled a firearm at another human. With that said, 5th officer involved shooting, 4th deadly, no gun found on scene.
I know cameras don’t do justice to depth perception, but I don’t think I could have identified the suspect much less whether or not they were armed at that distance.

Good shoot? Bad shoot?
Looks bad to me.

View: https://youtu.be/AFWR73R9G3E
 
Coreira makes some good points:
-while is the officer is 50 yds (google earth measured) away from the suspect, is there a deadly threat posed on the officer? probably zero
-since you're 100% responsible for every bullet down the pipe, what are the chances that the officer hit the suspect at 50 yds away while he's hidden in shadows? probably zero
-after initial shots, why was the officer looking down to radio while the suspect remained standing? (likely because the officer knew he wasn't a real threat)

Looks like a bad shoot to me. The officer was primed to shoot, regardless of objective presence of threat. Nobody is threatened at 50 yds away. He was thirsty to kill. Not what we're looking for in law enforcement. Guess the sister won't be calling the cops anytime soon.
 
Last edited:
Monday Morning Quarterbacking at its finest

Suicide By Cop.... pretty much.

My training was a knife is deadly at 21 feet, a gun is deadly at any distance.

We do not know what the Officer thought he saw that made him pull the trigger.

The video quality is not good enough for me to make an informed opinion

PS anyone who makes this sort of a video while proclaiming their love and support for cops out of one side of their mouth and then saying how bad of a shoot it was is a douchecanoe.
 
SKumar said:
That would be me. Need you to elaborate on this buddy.
Click to expand...
If a cop screws up. I'll be the first one looking for him to be held accountable, and most of the time I am critical of law enforcement.

The guy in the video is entitled to his opinion, he doesn't like the mag swap, he doesn't like the radio use, he does not feel the Officer took advantage of available cover ( and I'll agree with him on that to a point, take cover as long as you can still see the other person) but I have a problem with the Monday Morning QB's that have to say how much they support LE while they are ripping some guy apart based on a crappy video, and if this were to result in charges and a trial the first thing a good defense attorney would do is claim unfair pre trial prejudicial media coverage.

He could have done the video and expressed an opinion without the badge kissing.

Maybe it is just me and how I perceive it.
 
appraiser said:
If a cop screws up. I'll be the first one looking for him to be held accountable, and most of the time I am critical of law enforcement.

The guy in the video is entitled to his opinion, he doesn't like the mag swap, he doesn't like the radio use, he does not feel the Officer took advantage of available cover ( and I'll agree with him on that to a point, take cover as long as you can still see the other person) but I have a problem with the Monday Morning QB's that have to say how much they support LE while they are ripping some guy apart based on a crappy video, and if this were to result in charges and a trial the first thing a good defense attorney would do is claim unfair pre trial prejudicial media coverage.

He could have done the video and expressed an opinion without the badge kissing.

Maybe it is just me and how I perceive it.
Click to expand...
Fair
 
appraiser said:
but I have a problem with the Monday Morning QB's that have to say how much they support LE while they are ripping some guy apart based on a crappy video
Click to expand...
I don't think use of deadly force (5th in this cops instance) falls under "MMQB". It's perfectly reasonable to judge a cop's actions especially when there is use of deadly force. We want to be sure that law and universal police standards are met before lives are lost.

Although I agree that Moreira could've eased up on the cop praise, it's important for him to position himself as "pro-cop" to view the profession in a positive light and not negative to his audience.
 
appraiser said:
Monday Morning Quarterbacking at its finest

Suicide By Cop.... pretty much.

My training was a knife is deadly at 21 feet, a gun is deadly at any distance.

We do not know what the Officer thought he saw that made him pull the trigger.

The video quality is not good enough for me to make an informed opinion

PS anyone who makes this sort of a video while proclaiming their love and support for cops out of one side of their mouth and then saying how bad of a shoot it was is a douchecanoe.
Click to expand...

The entirety of the active self protection channel is Monday morning quarterbacking. Looking at encounters, deadly or otherwise, to glean information that may be useful to one in the future. He’s reviewed hundreds of shootings.

I think calling this suicide by cop is a stretch. The fella walking towards cops, armed, and not listening to commands,is suicide by cop.
This guy appears to have been shot from a considerable distance (50 yds.?) in the act of fleeing, not running towards the cop, and he was unarmed. I’ll typically give cops the benefit of the doubt when someone turns and points a taser at them, or is actively fighting or resisting, or has shrugged off taser darts and is still advancing. But shooting unarmed people running away? Not so much. Not to mention the sun angle being towards the cop and this dude being in the shade behind bushes.
 
Tinkermatic said:
The entirety of the active self protection channel is Monday morning quarterbacking. Looking at encounters, deadly or otherwise, to glean information that may be useful to one in the future. He’s reviewed hundreds of shootings.

I think calling this suicide by cop is a stretch. The fella walking towards cops, armed, and not listening to commands,is suicide by cop.
This guy appears to have been shot from a considerable distance (50 yds.?) in the act of fleeing, not running towards the cop, and he was unarmed. I’ll typically give cops the benefit of the doubt when someone turns and points a taser at them, or is actively fighting or resisting, or has shrugged off taser darts and is still advancing. But shooting unarmed people running away? Not so much. Not to mention the sun angle being towards the cop and this dude being in the shade behind bushes.
Click to expand...
stop or I will shoot.
JFC this officer has 5 shootings and 4 deaths under his belt.
What i dont like is the special treatment. If i shot at someone on my property 50 yards away i thought/felt/was told was a threat I m screwed.
Police need to do better work. They knew who this guy was Im sure they could have handled this better.
How many officers get to draw and shoot 5 times in their careers? Crime must be raging out of control there?
Sucks all around really but there needs to be some change for sure.
I have no real answers or even attempts at solutions other than a high accountability for LEO.
 
Several things
Terrible terrible mustache on that cop
That's not that far to see and or shoot from. I can see a golf ball hit from 250+ yards by the group in front of me. He was 50-75 yards max so he should've been able to see a weapon if he was able to shoot him from that distance.
If the guy did have a gun what was hiding behind that tree going to do...
And 5 shootings for that cop 4 fatal. He probably shouldn't be an officer. It seems like he escalates rather quickly as shown in this video.
This one wasn't a bad shoot per se but there was nothing attempted other than shooting. So he immediately went to deadly force against a building he didn't know was or wasn't occupied... with 4 other shootings on his resume. Time for a new job
 
Every single shooting gets Monday Morning Quarterbacked. All of them. That is exactly how it should work. Otherwise, people would get away with murder.

If you are involved in a shooting? MMQB.
If I am involved in one? MMQB.
If it is a LEO shooting? MMQB.

Only one of these three is different from the other two? I'll give you a hint. If it is you or me, it ain't our buds doing the investigation.
 
jkelly1229 said:
I mean if they had a history maybe... but I'm not jumping there off the bat.

And right or wrong there isn't enough to convict of anything on that tape.
Click to expand...

Maybe not premeditated murder. Though I can’t find any signs of imminent threat to the officer or surrounding populace. So, just murder?
The officer absolutely has a history, that’s why people keep mentioning this was his 5th shooting and 4th confirmed kill.
He barely even gave chase. Just round the corner, line him up, and squeeze. Almost like he’s done it a few times before.
 
Tinkermatic said:
Maybe not premeditated murder. Though I can’t find any signs of imminent threat to the officer or surrounding populace. So, just murder?
The officer absolutely has a history, that’s why people keep mentioning this was his 5th shooting and 4th confirmed kill.
He barely even gave chase. Just round the corner, line him up, and squeeze. Almost like he’s done it a few times before.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree it wasn't first time. However that's training or assign him to another dpt... and after 4 times what is he doing on the street the guy doesn't look that old. So this is a department failure and not an officer failure in my mind.

I used to work with a coke head. Sunday nights he would be really coked out and make changes to our environment at 3 am. Then send out an email that was compete gibberish as to what he was trying to do. Then not show up Monday until mid afternoon. You know what I did after the 3rd massive outage that cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars... I revoked his remote access. Eventually the laws of insanity apply..

If you repeatedly try the same thing and expect different results well you are the crazy person.
 
Tinkermatic said:
Maybe not premeditated murder. Though I can’t find any signs of imminent threat to the officer or surrounding populace. So, just murder?
The officer absolutely has a history, that’s why people keep mentioning this was his 5th shooting and 4th confirmed kill.
He barely even gave chase. Just round the corner, line him up, and squeeze. Almost like he’s done it a few times before.
Click to expand...
Yeah that looked very easy and comfortable for the cop. It’s possible that sweet mustache is where is powers are held. Remove the stash and maybe he’ll stop shooting.
 
Tinkermatic said:
Maybe not premeditated murder. Though I can’t find any signs of imminent threat to the officer or surrounding populace. So, just murder?
Click to expand...
The minute he jumped out of the car, he unholstered his weapon and had low ready. Remember, his information is from a call, not from objective evidence.
devo86 said:
Why would whatever police station keep him on as a officer after 2 or 3. he’s a walking million dollar lawsuit against the city or town.
Click to expand...
Not really. Police are trained to think "judged by 12 rather carried by 6", "shoot first, questions later", "dept and DAs have my back", "qualified immunity", etc. They have a LOT of protections going for them before a lawsuit comes to mind.
 
Seems like manslaughter or 2nd degree murder to me. No weapon present. Hands in view while running. No crime committed before cop onsite, just a call in report of "he might have a gun". Dude was compliant after initial shots with hands up, might have been hit as well. Can't tell. Cops fires on him anyway.

Cop should be fired immediately and prosecuted.
 

Similar threads

Bad news LTC holders, can't buy ammo at BassPro
2 3
Replies
66
Views
2K
Dennis in MA
Dennis in MA
Teacher Threatens to ‘Shoot Up’ Preschool in Nashville
Replies
5
Views
171
timbo
timbo
Police Shoot & Kill Fleeing Car Thief Who Attempted To Shoot NHSP K9
Replies
8
Views
348
Fixxah
Fixxah
New Hampshire HB1339 good or bad?
Replies
14
Views
628
sbhaven
S
FBI: Alleged American ISIS sympathizer planned to shoot up churches
Replies
9
Views
275
mothybee
mothybee
Back
Top Bottom