Barrel threading gone bad!

quietman

quietman

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Got the die and thread alignment tool to try to thread the barrel on a Saiga.
Removed the barrel shroud with a pipe cutter. Thought I followed the online directions correctly but after two separate attempts and a couple of hours of work, this is not working out. [sad2]
Saiga_barrel_1.jpg Saiga_barrel_2.jpg Saiga_barrel_3.jpg
 
Is it left handed threads? Also does the guide move freely or is it locked into the die?

Looks to me if the die set is correct size you are either threading in wrong direction or your guide is preventing the die from moving downward then you just strip off what little threads you cut?

Are you starting the threads from the correct side of the die.

And lastly is the die correct. Can't always trust the package.

personally I would file off the lip you have the ruler on. I then might use a dremel tool with a steel cutting blade to cut the "shroud" back a bit more.

Re group and try again.
 
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I had a similar issue with threading the barrel. I did not get that far into fubarvile though. It just rounded the edges a little and wouldn't catch so I stopped.
 
from the picture i would say the diameter of the barrel is to big for the die. Looks like the die removed way to much material.
The starting size should be from .551 to .571 to tap that correctly
 
quietman said:
Got the die and thread alignment tool to try to thread the barrel on a Saiga.
Removed the barrel shroud with a pipe cutter. Thought I followed the online directions correctly but after two separate attempts and a couple of hours of work, this is not working out. [sad2]
View attachment 131309View attachment 131310View attachment 131311
Click to expand...


This is why you always want to use calipers to measure your barrels OD. I have threaded a couple AK's with the kit from cncwarrior.... very high quality die. Maybe your barrel is closer to the profile of a mosin? If that's the case grab a 15x1 cut the threads... sand them down to smooth and then cut with the 14x1.

http://www.cncwarrior.com/AK-47-14x1LH-Barrel-Threading-Kit-p/25145.htm
 
quietman said:
View attachment 131755
Click to expand...
The answer to Greg's question is yes, it's split with a spreader screw. Do you have another item threaded with threads this side? Crank that screw in until the die screws onto those threads screw easily. Make your first cut with the die spread open like this. Chances are the muzzle device still won't thread on if you have it cranked open too much. Back the screw out a tiny bit (1/4 to 1/2 turn) and do another run down the threads. Try muzzle device, repeat, until it threads on.

Is that a pic that you took of the die on the barrel? It's hard to tell, but it looks like the die is upside down for which direction the threads are being cut. Short of paying someone else to fix it, I think mac1911 offered you solutions in the same order that I would investigate.

mac1911 said:
Is it left handed threads? Also does the guide move freely or is it locked into the die?

Looks to me if the die set is correct size you are either threading in wrong direction or your guide is preventing the die from moving downward then you just strip off what little threads you cut?

Are you starting the threads from the correct side of the die.

And lastly is the die correct. Can't always trust the package.

personally I would file off the lip you have the ruler on. I then might use a dremel tool with a steel cutting blade to cut the "shroud" back a bit more.

Re group and try again.
Click to expand...

It's been mentioned, but you haven't responded that you're certain you're correct, but cutting with the right side of the die is huge. I don't know what level of experience you have with this stuff but dies are designed to cut in one direction. They have a conical lead in that only cuts a little bit at a time. The lead in is really the part that forms the thread which is why it's so critical to start the die straight. Here's a pic I found online showing what I'm talking about.

81rT1Xz86VL.jpg
 
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Dan came by today. Die was labelled as 14-1 correctly installed. Lock screw in position to spread die.
The die just would not bite. So either the barrel is just a tad beyond the limits in diameter for this die or the die is a tad small. Die look fine no easily seen defects. It would just begin to bite then stop.
I didn't have anything decent at my shop to measure the barrel. Dan measured it as seen in previous post.
So it's either try another die or measure the barrel better and go from there.
 
You might have a lot of problems with the way the end of the barrel is . It will want to tq the die to a side. Also depending how out of center the bore is you might have problems cause of it .

You want to thread the guide in so when the teeth touch the barrel there is a gap between the muzzle and the guide. So only the shaft is touching the barrel . If you have it so the guide is right on the barrel end it can bind up and just tear the metal off vs threading down .

Expand the die as much as you can so it is easyier to start .
After you get it to start threading the barrel and unscrewing from the guide tighten the die up little and cut some more threads. Keep repeating checking with the muzzle device so you don't over tighten the die and cut a under size thread.


I personally would bring it to a smith . Have him turn the od down and braze a sleeve on and recrown . Then have him single point thread it .
 
warwickben said:
You might have a lot of problems with the way the end of the barrel is . It will want to tq the die to a side. Also depending how out of center the bore is you might have problems cause of it .

You want to thread the guide in so when the teeth touch the barrel there is a gap between the muzzle and the guide. So only the shaft is touching the barrel . If you have it so the guide is right on the barrel end it can bind up and just tear the metal off vs threading down .

Expand the die as much as you can so it is easyier to start .
After you get it to start threading the barrel and unscrewing from the guide tighten the die up little and cut some more threads. Keep repeating checking with the muzzle device so you don't over tighten the die and cut a under size thread.


I personally would bring it to a smith . Have him turn the od down and braze a sleeve on and recrown . Then have him single point thread it .
Click to expand...

I tried just that. Made sure the die was spread, guide was sitting a little high. Tap just would not bite.
It would get that first little grab like it's was going to start. I think the barrel is just a touch to big. My friend did something simular with his and we managed to work it out.

Dan I hope you get it worked out. Gun Smith might be opption all though costly.
 
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To everyone who has sent feedback I appreciate all the advice that has been shared. [wink]

mac 1911 I owe you one for taking the time yesterday to troubleshoot the issue. It was great meeting you and learning more about your garand project. I hope to see you this Spring or Summer at one of the meets. [smile]
 
mac1911 thought you might want to see this.

Thread_barrel.jpg Brake_barrel.jpg

You were absolutely on the mark. The barrel diameter was interfering with the ability to start the thread. I took some emery cloth and fine files to the diameter of the barrel. I took some rough caliper measurements before and after, and I took an average of .009" off the diameter, and then retried the die. Sure enough it worked. [smile]

The 74 brake I have is hiding a lot of my messy machine work. Once it's pinned I will touch it up with a little paint. [wink]

Appreciate the help I received from everyone. [party]
 
Glad to see that you were able to save it. It looks great.

The one time I installed a '74-style brake on a converted Saiga (it had factory threads under the shroud), I had problems with the bullets nicking the brake. I had previously shot the rifle and had it zeroed. After I installed the brake, I took it to the range and was hitting like 12" low and 12" to the left, at 50 yards. I don't know if it was eccentric threads on the barrel or the brake, but rounds were definitely not clearing the brake. I just opened up the end slightly with a dremel to fix the problem.
 
Saigas are flared at the muzzle. This causes a lot of problems when people start to cut threads. I think Dinzag Arms sells a complete kit for cutting and threading.
 
quietman said:
mac1911 thought you might want to see this.
You were absolutely on the mark. The barrel diameter was interfering with the ability to start the thread.
Click to expand...

Gee, too bad somebody didn't come up with that sooner. Like the very first reply in the thread. LOL
 
quietman said:
To everyone who has sent feedback I appreciate all the advice that has been shared. [wink]

mac 1911 I owe you one for taking the time yesterday to troubleshoot the issue. It was great meeting you and learning more about your garand project. I hope to see you this Spring or Summer at one of the meets. [smile]
Click to expand...

My Garand build went well took a quick 10 shot group tonight after work. got caught in a little down poor and trashed the target so I had to cut the little square from the backer.

 
quietman said:
You did that with iron sights? I'd say that was a keeper.

You've got better eyes than I do.
Click to expand...

Today I could see! my eyes are going though for decent iron shooting. I also shot prone using the sling correctly. This helps a great deal. I cheated today though and had support under my forward arm... Im still happy as it doesnt always go that well even when using the rifle rest with irons!

you should think about bringing the AK to the CMP mondern military match at pembroke ?
 

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