Bear Hunting Question

springer

springer

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Since people on this forum believe that a .460 or .500 is necessary to shoot a 300lb new england bear, I am wondering what type of firearm you would need to ethically and quickly kill a real bear like the one in the story below:

354-3311656.standalone.prod_affiliate.7.jpg


Here's the story:

http://www.adn.com/outdoors/story/256356.html


I read on Northeastshooters that I may be undergunned
510px-AT4_2REI_1.jpg
 
If you don't have a tactical nuke handy, any .30 cal or larger cartridge based on the .300 H&H or .300 Win or larger case will do the job neatly with the proper bullet.
The real trick would be keeping a steady hand when presented with such a magnificent specimen.

Jack
 
Mikey said:
Springer, what thread are you referring to? I think I must have missed it.
Click to expand...


Since I have recently become a member, I have spent more time on the board soaking in comments. I am overwhelmed by the number of people who believe you need an anti-tank missile to shoot a squirrel off of a bird feeder. There hasn't been one specific thread, but there have been many crazy comments in many threads. I am shocked by the number of people on here that believe that I must carry a .500 S&W to the mailbox just in case a chipmunk crosses my path.
 
springer said:
Since I have recently become a member, I have spent more time on the board soaking in comments. I am overwhelmed by the number of people who believe you need an anti-tank missile to shoot a squirrel off of a bird feeder. There hasn't been one specific thread, but there have been many crazy comments in many threads. I am shocked by the number of people on here that believe that I must carry a .500 S&W to the mailbox just in case a chipmunk crosses my path.
Click to expand...

Gotch ya!
 
Hunting bear is different than defending from a bear attack. You can hunt bear with a bow.... but it would be a different story trying defend your self from a bear attack with a bow. When an animal is hurt or cornered... they fight hard!
Yes I know what is coming next.... How many bear attacks have there been in MA in the last 20 yrs? Not many (not any?). I don't know if that means we are due for one or what? I will tell you this. I have been a wilderness guide (and hunter) for the last 15 years and have seen the number of people in the backcountry drastically increase in the last few years. Many of them break all the rules of the backcountry (food in their tents, lack experience, and are not hanging a food bag) couple that with urban sprawl, and you have a recipe for trouble. I went the better part of ten years only having bear encounters out west or deep in the woods of ME and NH. In all those encounters the bears were at a distance and showed either fear of us or a lack of interest. In the last two years in western MA on the AT I have had four encounters with black bear that not only showed no fear of a large group (10 people) but became insistant on engaging us or hanging around.
Now I am a fan of big bore hand guns, but the most effective tool in our arsenal is air horns storm whistles and fire crackers. Sudden loud, unnatural noises send black bears running. we also carry "bear spray" as a last resort. If you talk to any of the wildlife biologists who work in bear country they will all tell you that the pepper spray works every time, but the bear returns a short time later and in some cases rolls around in the sprayed area! Personally I am not sticking around to verify this fact!
You can count on the fact that I am going to be prepared to protect my family, my staff or my clients (in that order LOL) against anything that may cause harm.
 
Boston-Irish said:
Hunting bear is different than defending from a bear attack. You can hunt bear with a bow.... but it would be a different story trying defend your self from a bear attack with a bow. When an animal is hurt or cornered... they fight hard!
Yes I know what is coming next.... How many bear attacks have there been in MA in the last 20 yrs? Not many (not any?). I don't know if that means we are due for one or what? I will tell you this. I have been a wilderness guide (and hunter) for the last 15 years and have seen the number of people in the backcountry drastically increase in the last few years. Many of them break all the rules of the backcountry (food in their tents, lack experience, and are not hanging a food bag) couple that with urban sprawl, and you have a recipe for trouble. I went the better part of ten years only having bear encounters out west or deep in the woods of ME and NH. In all those encounters the bears were at a distance and showed either fear of us or a lack of interest. In the last two years in western MA on the AT I have had four encounters with black bear that not only showed no fear of a large group (10 people) but became insistant on engaging us or hanging around.
Now I am a fan of big bore hand guns, but the most effective tool in our arsenal is air horns storm whistles and fire crackers. Sudden loud, unnatural noises send black bears running. we also carry "bear spray" as a last resort. If you talk to any of the wildlife biologists who work in bear country they will all tell you that the pepper spray works every time, but the bear returns a short time later and in some cases rolls around in the sprayed area! Personally I am not sticking around to verify this fact!
You can count on the fact that I am going to be prepared to protect my family, my staff or my clients (in that order LOL) against anything that may cause harm.
Click to expand...

I am aware that bear hunting is different from defending from a bear attack. I have used bear repellant to dissuade a charging bear in Alaska. I also agree that with fewer people hunting in MA now, bears fear us less. I have seen the bear that lives in the area of the Sages ravine campground on the AT. This bear is quite a problem because it is correlating people with a food source. With that said, the bear that I’ve seen there was a small 300lb bear. My contention is the fact that many people on this board believe that a .460 or .500 are the only suitable bear handguns for small New England black bears. I believe that these revolvers are too large, heavy and difficult to carry and draw quickly, recoil too much for most people to shoot effectively and the ammo is so expensive people rarely practice with them. All of these factors are a recipe for disaster if you’re relying on it for self defense. Since you believe it's necessary to carry a x-frame for small New England Bears, what's your recommendation for a suitable gun for costal brown bear defense?
 
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So what you are saying is that I NEED a .500?!

Cool, I know what's next on my list, and I'm staying out of the woods until I get one! Thanks for the advice Springer!
 
springer said:
......My contention is the fact that many people on this board believe that a .460 or .500 are the only suitable bear handguns for small New England black bears. ..... Since you believe it's necessary to carry a x-frame for small New England Bears, what's your recommendation for a suitable gun for costal brown bear defense?
Click to expand...

I think that you are painting with an awfully wide brush. Have you conducted some sort of a study that would support your contention?
I'm sure that most here would agree that the Xframes are among the several good choices for hunting black bear, along with the .44 Mag, .45 Colt, .454 Casul and a number of other calibers that can push a properly constructed bullet hard enough to get the job done.

Defense against brownies is not much of an issue hereabouts. The folks that live and work in brownie range seem to prefer the 12 gauge slug gun above all others. In the absence of personal experience, I would be inclined to follow their advice.

Jack
 
"Please, you complain about the recoil of a mosin-nagant. A .500S&W would cause you to soil yourself."

That was rather mean spirited. Of course, it was also the first time
I laughed out load reading a post.
 
Is a .500 overkill for the Northeast? Probably. But if you can comfortably carry it all day and confidently shoot it, then more power to you.

The only bears I have ever seen in New England have been ones running away from me as fast as they can, I would be more worried about moose, those bastards are big and stand their ground a lot more often then a little black bear. It took me 5 mins. to push a moose out of the way this past summer and we were in my truck.

So I guess that leads to the question, what caliber for a pissed off charging moose?[wink]
 
springer said:
I am aware that bear hunting is different from defending from a bear attack. I have used bear repellant to dissuade a charging bear in Alaska. I also agree that with fewer people hunting in MA now, bears fear us less. I have seen the bear that lives in the area of the Sages ravine campground on the AT. This bear is quite a problem because it is correlating people with a food source. With that said, the bear that I’ve seen there was a small 300lb bear. My contention is the fact that many people on this board believe that a .460 or .500 are the only suitable bear handguns for small New England black bears. I believe that these revolvers are too large, heavy and difficult to carry and draw quickly, recoil too much for most people to shoot effectively and the ammo is so expensive people rarely practice with them. All of these factors are a recipe for disaster if you’re relying on it for self defense. Since you believe it's necessary to carry a x-frame for small New England Bears, what's your recommendation for a suitable gun for costal brown bear defense?
Click to expand...

Hey Springer,
I too have come in "too close" contact with the Sages Ravine bear. He was with another bear that came into our camp and sat 15 yards away from our fire and stayed for 40 min. (seemed like an hour). There was another group near us that had cooked bacon in camp. They also dumped their extra uneaten food in the outhouse!
I have a 500S&W but tend to rely more on a 10MM with hot 200gr loads. The Glock 29 is light, packs small and with 15 round mags, carries enough firepower.
I really like the Ruger super redhawk alaskan in 454 cassul/45 long colt I think that would be a great chioce also. The 44 mag (in my opinion) falls between the 10mm and the 454/45lc and you can't go wrong with 44Mag. I just know when the adreniline gets pumping (even though I am confident in my shot placement) I FEEL better having 15 rounds in a mag.
Have a good one!
 
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This is from Alaska Fish and Game:

http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=bears.bearfax

Protection
Firearms should never be used as an alternative to common-sense approaches to bear encounters. If you are inexperienced with a firearm in emergency situations, you are more likely to be injured by a gun than a bear. It is illegal to carry firearms in some of Alaska's national parks, so check before you go.

A .300-Magnum rifle or a 12-gauge shotgun with rifled slugs are appropriate weapons if you have to shoot a bear. Heavy handguns such as a .44-Magnum may be inadequate in emergency situations, especially in untrained hands.

State law allows a bear to be shot in self-defense if you did not provoke the attack and if there is no alternative. But the hide and skull must be salvaged and turned over to the authorities.

Defensive aerosol sprays which contain capsicum (red pepper extract) have been used with some success for protection against bears. These sprays may be effective at a range of 6-8 yards. If discharged upwind or in a vehicle, they can disable the user. Take appropriate precautions. If you carry a spray can, keep it handy and know how to use it.
Click to expand...
 
Yeah hide and skull must be kept. You're out hiking, have to kill a bear like the one in the first post in defense, so now you out in the woods, have to somehow skin that bear, AND cut it's head off. Then, you have to hike back out with 200lbs of BEAR BAIT.

Good luck with that... Funny though, Springer and I were talking about this exact same thing yesterday!
 
when I worked in Colorado, most of the guys I worked with had either lever action 45/70 or shotguns. we had problems with cats too. It was an adjustment for me to see average hikers open carry in the backcountry. If you did that here the god damn liberals would freak out.
 

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