Can Question

zenmaste123

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Having trouble finding a straight answer for this one. I am a MA resident and likely will be for a while given the housing market. (May as well take advantage of the crazy long ma/paternity leave while we start our family anyway)

The Question:

My family has property in NH and I'm trying to see if there is any way to LEGALLY purchase cans and put them in a trust. My uncle and I have been talking about this for years and dreaming of having a stash of the fun stuff we leave in a safe up there. (Shared family house also in a trust)

Is it possible to to create a trust with a family member or friend in NH, have us be part of it, and they do the actual procurement side of things?

To be clear, I have NO INTENTION of breaking the law here, I shoot mostly up there anyway, would be nice to stop at the lake to grab some normal cap mags and a can on our way to have some fun innawoods.

- Cheers!
 
I have read that the ATF considers you a resident of a state if you have a real estate tax bill in your name, and a utility bill in your name.

I'm sure you could ask the town and utility company to add your name to the bill.
 
I need to look into this lol. My dad has a camp in Maine but its all in his name. Would love me some suppressors....
 
A signed lease and a utility bill should suffice for residency.
Once established, you get to buy whatever you want and bring it back to Mass as long as it isn't an "assault-style" weapon.
 
A signed lease and a utility bill should suffice for residency.
Once established, you get to buy whatever you want and bring it back to Mass as long as it isn't an "assault-style" weapon.
I bought everything I could ever want before the pre amble. I am strictly talking about suppressors which I can't and won't bring back to MA.
 
I have read that the ATF considers you a resident of a state if you have a real estate tax bill in your name, and a utility bill in your name.

I'm sure you could ask the town and utility company to add your name to the bill.
I believe the ATF says that you're a resident of any state where you're planning on residing in or something like that. I bet @CrackPot knows a lot more about this.
 
I bought everything I could ever want before the pre amble. I am strictly talking about suppressors which I can't and won't bring back to MA.
There are a lot of guns that aren't on the approved rosters and never will be - also, I try to keep my posts general if possible so that other people can apply the information.
 
if there is any way to LEGALLY purchase cans and put them in a trust. My uncle and I have been talking about this for years and dreaming of having a stash of the fun stuff we leave in a safe up there. (Shared family house also in a trust)

Is it possible to to create a trust with a family member or friend in NH, have us be part of it, and they do the actual procurement side of things?
Short answer -- yes.

Long not-legal-advice hypothetical answer -- A family member who wants several cans for themselves and with residency at the shared family house generates a NFA trust (lets call it "Salt I"), does all the purchase paperwork with only themselves as the settlor (the "responsible person"). Then, only after all the purchases are concluded, do you decide you will also have access to the safe and the settlor adds you and others as co-trustees on the trust paperwork.

If there will be further purchases, work from a freshly minted trust ("Salt II" ... "Salt IV"). not the existing amended trust.
 
you are a NH home owner. so just buy what you want, in NH, and use it, and end of the problem. enjoy your freedom while it is still allowed by NH overlords.
 
Having trouble finding a straight answer for this one. I am a MA resident and likely will be for a while given the housing market. (May as well take advantage of the crazy long ma/paternity leave while we start our family anyway)

The Question:

My family has property in NH and I'm trying to see if there is any way to LEGALLY purchase cans and put them in a trust. My uncle and I have been talking about this for years and dreaming of having a stash of the fun stuff we leave in a safe up there. (Shared family house also in a trust)

Is it possible to to create a trust with a family member or friend in NH, have us be part of it, and they do the actual procurement side of things?

To be clear, I have NO INTENTION of breaking the law here, I shoot mostly up there anyway, would be nice to stop at the lake to grab some normal cap mags and a can on our way to have some fun innawoods.

- Cheers!

Your goal appears to be to possess suppressors while in NH. You have identified one path and there is a second.

Path #1, a trust

You can form a trust with any number of people including a NH resident. The NH resident can purchase items on behalf of the trust. Any member of the trust can possess the items if the items are legal to possess in the location they are at. So for example if the NH resident keeps them in NH, you can possess them while in NH or any other state where they are lawful to possess.

Path #2, be a NH resident

The ATF defines residency as being present in a state in which you make your home. If you have multiple homes in multiple states, you are a resident of the state in which you are currently present. So your family has property in NH. Do they have a home in NH? In other words, is there a place to LIVE or is it just property? If it is a home and you make it YOUR home while in NH (winter skiing, summer boating, etc), then you are a resident of NH while in NH at your NH home.


Acquisition of any firearm from a FFL requires two things: proof of identity and proof of residency. Proof of identity is a government issued picture ID with your picture and name on it. A passport, a DL, etc. Proof of residency is any government document with your name and address on it. A DL, a tax bill, a car registration, etc.

So you can fill out a 4473 in NH and provide your MA DL (or a passport) and some government document with your name and NH address on it to the FFL and presumably they will complete the transaction. Not all FFLs know the law. Not all FFLs care about the law. Not all FFLs want to deal with dual residency. Not all FFLs want to deal with someone who is a MA resident even when they are also a NH resident. So find the right FFL.


I am a MA FFL and a NH FFL. I have done NH based sales/transfers for dual residents where their MA DL was proof of identify and their town tax bill was their proof of residency. I have another customer that has a car registered in NH since his NH home is owned by a family trust leaving him w/o any other government documents. Many ways to skin the cat.


In the end, YOU are certifying you are a NH resident and providing sufficient proof for me as a FFL to complete the transaction. I don't drive to your NH home and check...


I have read that the ATF considers you a resident of a state if you have a real estate tax bill in your name, and a utility bill in your name.

I'm sure you could ask the town and utility company to add your name to the bill.
You are confusing how to prove residency with being a resident. They are different...
 
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Your goal appears to be to possess suppressors while in NH. You have identified one path and there is a second.

Path #1, a trust

You can form a trust with any number of people including a NH resident. The NH resident can purchase items on behalf of the trust. Any member of the trust can possess the items if the items are legal to possess in the location they are at. So for example if the NH resident keeps them in NH, you can possess them while in NH or any other state where they are lawful to possess.

Path #2, be a NH resident

The ATF defines residency as being present in a state in which you make your home. If you have multiple homes in multiple states, you are a resident of the state in which you are currently present. So your family has property in NH. Do they have a home in NH? In other words, is there a place to LIVE or is it just property? If it is a home and you make it YOUR home while in NH (winter skiing, summer boating, etc), then you are a resident of NH while in NH at your NH home.


Acquisition of any firearm from a FFL requires two things: proof of identity and proof of residency. Proof of identity is a government issues picture ID with your picture and name on it. A passport, a DL, etc. Proof of residency is any government document with your name and address on it. A DL, a tax bill, a car registration, etc.

So you can fill out a 4473 in NH and provide your MA DL (or a passport) and some government document with your name and NH address on it to the FFL and presumably they will complete the transaction. Not all FFLs know the law. Not all FFLs care about the law. Not all FFLs want to deal with dual residency. Not all FFLs want to deal with someone who is a MA resident even when they are also a NH resident. So find the right FFL.


I am a MA FFL and a NH FFL. I have done NH based sales/transfers for dual residents where their MA DL was proof of identify and their town tax bill was their proof of residency. I have another customer that has a car registered in NH since his NH home is owned by a family trust leaving him w/o any other government documents. Many ways to skin the cat.


In the end, YOU are certifying you are a NH resident and providing sufficient proof for me as a FFL to complete the transaction. I don't drive to your NH home and check...



You are confusing how to prove residency with being a resident. They are different...
Option #2 easy
 
...

Path #2, be a NH resident

The ATF defines residency as being present in a state in which you make your home. If you have multiple homes in multiple states, you are a resident of the state in which you are currently present. So your family has property in NH. Do they have a home in NH? In other words, is there a place to LIVE or is it just property? If it is a home and you make it YOUR home while in NH (winter skiing, summer boating, etc), then you are a resident of NH while in NH at your NH home.

...

Great write up! Just to avoid confusion, I would use "present and making a home" instead of "present" in bold above. You clarified it before and after, but somebody may just see that part and think stopping by at a NH gun store while living in MA at a time, is being "present'' enough.
 
Option #2 easy

Option #2 plus separate trust for each item with one trustee when buying. This way you can own the whole process.

Option #1 might be more attractive if the other person lives in NH full time. Then they do the separate trust for each item when buying.
 
Option #2 plus separate trust for each item with one trustee when buying. This way you can own the whole process.

Option #1 might be more attractive if the other person lives in NH full time. Then they do the separate trust for each item when buying.
I am a huge anti Trust person. There is essentially only one good reason for a trust in my mind, multiple people sharing the NFA items.

Inheritance is handled through a tax free Form 5 by the executor.
CLEO is notification and not permission so that old reason is gone.

Trusts cost money and add complexity only to the benefit of the person selling you the service to create the trust. Trusts take longer to process Form 1/Form 4. Trusts have a higher rate of denials because the ATF must read your trust, interpret it, determine if you have correctly added the item to the trust, determine if you have included all responsible persons in the application, etc.

But hey, you do you :)
 
Your goal appears to be to possess suppressors while in NH. You have identified one path and there is a second.

Path #1, a trust

You can form a trust with any number of people including a NH resident. The NH resident can purchase items on behalf of the trust. Any member of the trust can possess the items if the items are legal to possess in the location they are at. So for example if the NH resident keeps them in NH, you can possess them while in NH or any other state where they are lawful to possess.

Path #2, be a NH resident

The ATF defines residency as being present in a state in which you make your home. If you have multiple homes in multiple states, you are a resident of the state in which you are currently present. So your family has property in NH. Do they have a home in NH? In other words, is there a place to LIVE or is it just property? If it is a home and you make it YOUR home while in NH (winter skiing, summer boating, etc), then you are a resident of NH while in NH at your NH home.


Acquisition of any firearm from a FFL requires two things: proof of identity and proof of residency. Proof of identity is a government issued picture ID with your picture and name on it. A passport, a DL, etc. Proof of residency is any government document with your name and address on it. A DL, a tax bill, a car registration, etc.

So you can fill out a 4473 in NH and provide your MA DL (or a passport) and some government document with your name and NH address on it to the FFL and presumably they will complete the transaction. Not all FFLs know the law. Not all FFLs care about the law. Not all FFLs want to deal with dual residency. Not all FFLs want to deal with someone who is a MA resident even when they are also a NH resident. So find the right FFL.


I am a MA FFL and a NH FFL. I have done NH based sales/transfers for dual residents where their MA DL was proof of identify and their town tax bill was their proof of residency. I have another customer that has a car registered in NH since his NH home is owned by a family trust leaving him w/o any other government documents. Many ways to skin the cat.


In the end, YOU are certifying you are a NH resident and providing sufficient proof for me as a FFL to complete the transaction. I don't drive to your NH home and check...



You are confusing how to prove residency with being a resident. They are different...
Wow , very thorough writeup good Sir! Much appreciated. It appears I have some options here. I'll have to go through them and see what's the easiest route is for me. The property (big house) is in a trust, looks like I have a few ways to skin the cat as you say.

Sounds like registering one of my cars in NH or creating a trust with friend/family member is the ticket.
 
Your goal appears to be to possess suppressors while in NH. You have identified one path and there is a second.

Path #2, be a NH resident

Acquisition of any firearm from a FFL requires two things: proof of identity and proof of residency. Proof of identity is a government issued picture ID with your picture and name on it. A passport, a DL, etc. Proof of residency is any government document with your name and address on it. A DL, a tax bill, a car registration, etc.

So you can fill out a 4473 in NH and provide your MA DL (or a passport) and some government document with your name and NH address on it to the FFL and presumably they will complete the transaction. Not all FFLs know the law. Not all FFLs care about the law. Not all FFLs want to deal with dual residency. Not all FFLs want to deal with someone who is a MA resident even when they are also a NH resident. So find the right FFL.


I am a MA FFL and a NH FFL. I have done NH based sales/transfers for dual residents where their MA DL was proof of identify and their town tax bill was their proof of residency. I have another customer that has a car registered in NH since his NH home is owned by a family trust leaving him w/o any other government documents. Many ways to skin the cat.
I wonder if I can have my dad add me to his Maine house tax bill....any other easy options? utility bill?

Of course even if he can, the next issue is finding a FFL in Maine that is well versed in the definition of residency per the ATF...
 
I am a huge anti Trust person. There is essentially only one good reason for a trust in my mind, multiple people sharing the NFA items.

Inheritance is handled through a tax free Form 5 by the executor.
CLEO is notification and not permission so that old reason is gone.

Trusts cost money and add complexity only to the benefit of the person selling you the service to create the trust. Trusts take longer to process Form 1/Form 4. Trusts have a higher rate of denials because the ATF must read your trust, interpret it, determine if you have correctly added the item to the trust, determine if you have included all responsible persons in the application, etc.

But hey, you do you :)


All true, but that one good reason can easily outweigh all the negatives. Be it for the scenario specified by OP, or for a family living in a free state under the same roof.

And then you just mitigate what you can. Unless you have a special case, maybe don't get your trust from your family or business attorney? Single shot trust are $25/each or $130 unlimited at SilencerShop. Other vendors sell their NFA specific trusts too. Reviewers see thousands of those generic trusts, so if you do your part it won't be kicked back. Wait times are in the "it is what it is" category - just send it and forget it.
 
I will only add to Crack Pot’s post that your FFL may require an original ink stamped document as government proof.
In my case it was a boat trailer registration from the town with my actual address on it.
 
I wonder if I can have my dad add me to his Maine house tax bill....any other easy options? utility bill?

Of course even if he can, the next issue is finding a FFL in Maine that is well versed in the definition of residency per the ATF...

Is that utility run by a government? It has to be a government issued document or even a document from a government website with your name and residence address (see instructions to question 26.b on 4473).

Can you get Maine resident CCW when you reside there, if it shows the address?

I mean, even a library card or printout with your name and address should technically work, if library is run by a state/county/city. You should definitely do this option, for the laughs, if it checks out. 🤣
 
I am a huge anti Trust person. There is essentially only one good reason for a trust in my mind, multiple people sharing the NFA items.

Inheritance is handled through a tax free Form 5 by the executor.
CLEO is notification and not permission so that old reason is gone.

Trusts cost money and add complexity only to the benefit of the person selling you the service to create the trust. Trusts take longer to process Form 1/Form 4. Trusts have a higher rate of denials because the ATF must read your trust, interpret it, determine if you have correctly added the item to the trust, determine if you have included all responsible persons in the application, etc.

But hey, you do you :)

^ this
 
Is that utility run by a government? It has to be a government issued document or even a document from a government website with your name and residence address (see instructions to question 26.b on 4473).

Can you get Maine resident CCW when you reside there, if it shows the address?

I mean, even a library card or printout with your name and address should technically work, if library is run by a state/county/city. You should definitely do this option, for the laughs, if it checks out. 🤣

The ME state police would not grant me a resident license to carry despite my owning a home there.
My primary residence and business were in MA.
That's the point I decided that the entire northeast should be f***ing nuked and left.
 
The ME state police would not grant me a resident license to carry despite my owning a home there.
My primary residence and business were in MA.
That's the point I decided that the entire northeast should be f***ing nuked and left.
Don't you typically have to show your driver's license as part of an application for any CCW license? And we aren't allowed to have driver's licenses in multiple states concurrently, right? So Maine state police sees your driver's license is in another state, naturally the followup question is - dafuq are you applying for a Maine resident CCW for?
 
Don't you typically have to show your driver's license as part of an application for any CCW license? And we aren't allowed to have driver's licenses in multiple states concurrently, right? So Maine state police sees your driver's license is in another state, naturally the followup question is - dafuq are you applying for a Maine resident CCW for?
I use my passport card for ID, including for NC ccw. Lease and utilities proved residency.
And I wasn’t asking for a DL, which cannot be held from multiple states.
The ATF recognized my dual residency but the MSP wouldn’t.
 
I use my passport card for ID, including for NC ccw. Lease and utilities proved residency.
And I wasn’t asking for a DL, which cannot be held from multiple states.
The ATF recognized my dual residency but the MSP wouldn’t.
Hard to have 2 government resident licenses. No?
Can’t have two DL’s and yes, that’s a privilege not a right. I get that.
 
The ME state police would not grant me a resident license to carry despite my owning a home there.
My primary residence and business were in MA.
That's the point I decided that the entire northeast should be f***ing nuked and left.

Yea, compared to the years of oppression in MA, ME certainly did you dirtier! 🤣
Even though non res CCW would probably be easy to get and serve you just as well?

On a serious note - great data point! Maybe @DW357 's dad lives in one of the towns that issue resident CCW directly without MSP and he might have a different outcome if he wants to try this first.
 


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