Comm2A joins with other groups to challenge semi-auto ban

spt_1955 said:
First of all this thread is about the Escher v. Noble lawsuit filed Friday of which GOAL was not a part of. Once again the self anointed organizer of the legal fight against HB-4885 is nowhere to be seen. This might help explain why they only have 23K in membership.
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I normally don't search out negative posts, but a friend brought this one to my attention. For the record, this case was initiated by GOAL through the NRA as part of our litigation organizational strategy that started nearly a year ago. The NRA was the lead and they reached out to a host of others to put together a unified effort. We said a year ago that this would take every organization to do their part, and through our efforts and the cooperation of other groups, it is happening. GOAL is not always concerned with getting the headlines, we are more concerned with results. As such, we are more than happy to let other groups take a bow. That is how professional groups operate.
 
⬆️ Thanks @GOALJim ⬆️

So, anyway...

I was interested to hear Mike Harris say in the video above that the initial plan was for a broader lawsuit, but Snope v. Brown ascended to SCOTUS, so lets hope that come Monday's orders that proves to be be a savings.

And if not lets hope that there is gas in the tank for further action.

🐯
 
GOALJim said:
I normally don't search out negative posts, but a friend brought this one to my attention. For the record, this case was initiated by GOAL through the NRA as part of our litigation organizational strategy that started nearly a year ago. The NRA was the lead and they reached out to a host of others to put together a unified effort. We said a year ago that this would take every organization to do their part, and through our efforts and the cooperation of other groups, it is happening. GOAL is not always concerned with getting the headlines, we are more concerned with results. As such, we are more than happy to let other groups take a bow. That is how professional groups operate.
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Please keep up the good work Jim. Even though it's not many, derangement syndrome isn't just limited to DJT.
 
Comm2A said:
Breaking News:

Comm2A joins with Gun Owners Action League, Firearms Policy Coalition, Second Amendment Foundation, The National Rifle Association of America, and Gun Owners of America to file a challenge to the laws prohibiting 18-20 year olds from possession, purchase, and carry of semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and all handguns.

comm2a.org

Escher v. Noble - Commonwealth Second Amendment

42 U.S.C. § 1983 Civil Rights Complaint against the Massachusetts prohibition on 18-20 year olds possessing, purchasing, and carrying semi-automatic firearms. United States District Court — District of Massachusetts (Boston) Filed: February 14th, 2025 Status: Initial Filing At issue is...
comm2a.org comm2a.org

42 U.S.C. § 1983 Civil Rights Complaint against the Massachusetts prohibition on 18-20 year olds possessing, purchasing, and carrying semi-automatic firearms.



United States District Court — District of Massachusetts (Boston)​

Filed: February 14th, 2025​

At issue is whether or not lawful residents aged 18-20 years old constitute part of “the people” protected by the Second Amendment.

On July 25, 2024, Governor Maura Healey signed an omnibus bill, H.B. 4885, altering in several respects existing Massachusetts laws pertaining to firearms. H.B. 4885 enacts special restrictions on 18-to-20 year-old adults, entirely banning them from acquiring, possessing, or carrying any semiautomatic firearm of any type or any handgun.

Historically, 18-year-olds always have been understood to be part of “the people” who have the right to carry and own firearms. On May 8, 1792, mere months after the Second Amendment was ratified, Congress mandated that “every free able-bodied white male citizen … who is or shall be of the age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia.” Militia Act of 1792, ch. 33, § 1, 1 Stat. 271 (“Militia Act”)

The individual states followed suit and enrolled males aged 18 as part of the militia. As a member of the militia, 18-year-olds were required to keep and bear the same sort of common firearms that older citizens owned.

It is for these reasons we believe these restrictions cannot stand Constitutional scrutiny and must be struck down.

Comm2A is joined in this action by Gun Owners Action League, Firearms Policy Coalition, Second Amendment Foundation, The National Rifle Association of America, and Gun Owners of America

Plaintiffs are represented by attorneys Jason Guida and David H. Thompson, Peter A Patterson, and William V. Bergstrom of the law firm Cooper & Kirk

Complaint Attached.
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GOALJim said:
I normally don't search out negative posts, but a friend brought this one to my attention. For the record, this case was initiated by GOAL through the NRA as part of our litigation organizational strategy that started nearly a year ago. The NRA was the lead and they reached out to a host of others to put together a unified effort. We said a year ago that this would take every organization to do their part, and through our efforts and the cooperation of other groups, it is happening. GOAL is not always concerned with getting the headlines, we are more concerned with results. As such, we are more than happy to let other groups take a bow. That is how professional groups operate.
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Thank you!!!
 
6:42 am, third cup of coffee, reading through all this crap and realizing that my ears have turned red, a warning that my BP has jumped.

What's actually more painful, and a stab to the heart, is knowing that as of 6:44 am, on the 3rd of March 2025, the vast majority of gun owners in MA and the country still won't mount up and support a 2A rights organization of their choice and for whatever reason have decided being a free 2Aer is the way to go.
 
Most of these orgs SUCK. GOAL SUCKS. COMM2a SUCKS!! And why does it take 7 organizations for one lawsuit.
What happened to each organization picking a piece of chapter 135 and filing suits separately. Situation normal, say one thing. Take our MONEY!..and do completely opposite.
Asualt weapons bans
Red flag laws
Ghost guns
Magazine bans
Hello? You choose 18 year old shit. So people in this state can go to jail for having AR-15 or get red flagged…and your going for more low hanging fruit.
Your sad organizations and this is why you’re dying. People are done donating to you lies and bullshit.
 
Sparky1911 said:
Most of these orgs SUCK. GOAL SUCKS. COMM2a SUCKS!! And why does it take 7 organizations for one lawsuit.
What happened to each organization picking a piece of chapter 135 and filing suits separately. Situation normal, say one thing. Take our MONEY!..and do completely opposite.
Asualt weapons bans
Red flag laws
Ghost guns
Magazine bans
Hello? You choose 18 year old shit. So people in this state can go to jail for having AR-15 or get red flagged…and your going for more low hanging fruit.
Your sad organizations and this is why you’re dying. People are done donating to you lies and bullshit.
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Share your specific solutions please.
 
I have donated to GOAL a long time. I know much of what Jim does, how much of his life he he given to GOAL and I just can't wrap my head around why the HELL we have to read things like GOAL sucks here. Sure, we have free speech, but so many gun owners can't stop smashing themselves in the face using it.

I know I have said this here many times. I have supported many 2A organizations over the course of close to 50 years and the fact that many don't remains one of the greatest frustrations of my life.
 
Sparky1911 said:
Most of these orgs SUCK. GOAL SUCKS. COMM2a SUCKS!! And why does it take 7 organizations for one lawsuit.
What happened to each organization picking a piece of chapter 135 and filing suits separately. Situation normal, say one thing. Take our MONEY!..and do completely opposite.
Asualt weapons bans
Red flag laws
Ghost guns
Magazine bans
Hello? You choose 18 year old shit. So people in this state can go to jail for having AR-15 or get red flagged…and your going for more low hanging fruit.
Your sad organizations and this is why you’re dying. People are done donating to you lies and bullshit.
Click to expand...
Surprised you haven't hired your own lawyer and filed a lawsuit.
 
HARRYM said:
I have donated to GOAL a long time. I know much of what Jim does, how much of his life he he given to GOAL and I just can't wrap my head around why the HELL we have to read things like GOAL sucks here. Sure, we have free speech, but so many gun owners can't stop smashing themselves in the face using it.

I know I have said this here many times. I have supported many 2A organizations over the course of close to 50 years and the fact that many don't remains one of the greatest frustrations of my life.
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And what have you gotten for your money. Lots of talk. Every law that mass wanted to pass has passed. They have done nothing here.
 
Sparky1911 said:
Most of these orgs SUCK. GOAL SUCKS. COMM2a SUCKS!! And why does it take 7 organizations for one lawsuit.
What happened to each organization picking a piece of chapter 135 and filing suits separately. Situation normal, say one thing. Take our MONEY!..and do completely opposite.
Asualt weapons bans
Red flag laws
Ghost guns
Magazine bans
Hello? You choose 18 year old shit. So people in this state can go to jail for having AR-15 or get red flagged…and your going for more low hanging fruit.
Your sad organizations and this is why you’re dying. People are done donating to you lies and bullshit.
Click to expand...
Sparky,


The best way to attack this abomination of a law is to band together and take it one step at a time.

With the pendency of Snope and Ocean State, we didn't want to file a case on either of those fronts and waste time and resources just to have to start from square one if the legal foundation changed due to the outcome of those cases.

The 18-20 year old ban on anything semi-auto is a solid starting point. It asks a fundamental question, if "The People" includes folks who are legally adults, then they cannot be prohibited an entire class of protected arms. This would also hold true for anyone else 21+ because protected arms in common use cannot be banned.

One legal challenge at a time, especially when there are cases in the air at SCOTUS.
 
Darksideblues42 said:
Sparky,


The best way to attack this abomination of a law is to band together and take it one step at a time.

With the pendency of Snope and Ocean State, we didn't want to file a case on either of those fronts and waste time and resources just to have to start from square one if the legal foundation changed due to the outcome of those cases.

The 18-20 year old ban on anything semi-auto is a solid starting point. It asks a fundamental question, if "The People" includes folks who are legally adults, then they cannot be prohibited an entire class of protected arms. This would also hold true for anyone else 21+ because protected arms in common use cannot be banned.

One legal challenge at a time, especially when there are cases in the air at SCOTUS.
Click to expand...
Got it.
So how many years until we get or the ghost guns
How many years until we get to red flag laws
How many years until we get to asualt weapons and magazines
We’re about 7 months into chapter 135 being law. And nothing has been done.
NOTHING HAS BEEN FILED
Who gives a F about this 18-21. Common use is common use. Period. You don’t need to prove 18-21 year olds can have em. Laws already out.
AR, AK ECT. ARE IN COMMON USE. 18-21….That’s has to be fought nation wide and to the Supreme Court. Please help us with relief WITHIN MASSACHUSETTS.

Addition- I know it’s a touchy subject, and a hard one. But do you think the 18-20 year olds of today should be allowed to buy semi. I really dont know. They are so immature these days it’s for the better. Like drinking.
I know the argument and agree. You can fight in the military but not have a beer or a semi. But that’s where we are and it’s honestly probably for the better
 
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Sparky1911 said:
Got it.
So how many years until we get or the ghost guns
How many years until we get to red flag laws
How many years until we get to asualt weapons and magazines
We’re about 7 months into chapter 135 being law. And nothing has been done.
NOTHING HAS BEEN FILED
Who gives a F about this 18-21. Common use is common use. Period. You don’t need to prove 18-21 year olds can have em. Laws already out.
AR, AK ECT. ARE IN COMMON USE. 18-21….That’s has to be fought nation wide and to the Supreme Court. Please help us with relief WITHIN MASSACHUSETTS.

Addition- I know it’s a touchy subject, and a hard one. But do you think the 18-20 year olds of today should be allowed to buy semi. I really dont know. They are so immature these days it’s for the better. Like drinking.
I know the argument and agree. You can fight in the military but not have a beer or a semi. But that’s where we are and it’s honestly probably for the better
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You are outright misstating facts, either willfully or through ignorance.

This case was filed, which attacks the removal of all semi-auto firearms from the FID scheme.

I already explained the two items below, but here we go again:

Assault Weapons - please see Snope. We need to wait for a disposition in that case. If we file now, the outcome of Snope will mean we have to start over. Waste of time and resources until we know how that turns out.

Magazines - please see Ocean State Tactical. We need to wait for a disposition in that case. If we file now, the outcome of Ocean State will mean we have to start over. Waste of time and resources until we know how that turns out.

As to the who cares? We do. Someone needs to. If we get the court to agree that 18-20 year olds are "The People" and semiautomatics are "In Common Use" AND there is no historical analog which prohibits 18 year olds from possessing arms dating back to the late 18th century, then we have to win. No two ways about it.

The way we win is by painting the judge into the corner, but allowing them to see there is one open door they can use, the one that forces them to side with us.
 
HARRYM said:
I have donated to GOAL a long time. I know much of what Jim does, how much of his life he he given to GOAL and I just can't wrap my head around why the HELL we have to read things like GOAL sucks here. Sure, we have free speech, but so many gun owners can't stop smashing themselves in the face using it.

I know I have said this here many times. I have supported many 2A organizations over the course of close to 50 years and the fact that many don't remains one of the greatest frustrations of my life.
Click to expand...
When one gets a senior leadership position at the NRA, you're talking about salaries in the $800K+ range. Definitely "nice work if iyou can get it".

When one gets a senior leadership position at GOAL, you're talking about a modest salary that probably does not approach what one could have made in another private sector job.

You can dig all you want, but you won't find anyone getting wealthy off of your GOAL donations (though attorneys do have to be paid, they are not GOAL employees). Ditto for Comm2a (no paid staff).

It's easy to criticize - but things tend to look different when you spend time getting a close up view at how things actually work, have experience with the legislature (Jim's sandbox), and work with expert legal counsel to determine what bites of the elephant you may be able to digest. Symbolic cases designed to make a point about our outrage accomplish nothing.

Some of the issues are "go federal or go home". We are NOT going to win on a mag ban, AW ban, or red flag law case in a Massachusetts court, no matter how solid our argument. The First Circuit tends to be anti-gun rights, and rules for us only when painted into a logical corner.

Federally speaking, the first circuit is an unlikely path (compared to some of the others) to a favorable decision on many of these issues that can be pushed further. I suppose Comm2A could file a "destined to lose" case in the first circuit if there is a win in another circuit to create a split and increast the chances of SCOTUS granting cert.

The only way for a win in a MA or the First Circuit course is a case that is very specific, does not provide the court with a laundry list of claims. Give them a list, and they can hang a bad decision on any one of them and gloss over the rest.

The way we win is by painting the judge into the corner, but allowing them to see ther
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QFTMFT
e is one open door they can use, the one that forces them to side with us.
Click to expand...
 
Rob Boudrie said:
When one gets a senior leadership position at the NRA, you're talking about salaries in the $800K+ range. Definitely "nice work if iyou can get it".

When one gets a senior leadership position at GOAL, you're talking about a modest salary that probably does not approach what one could have made in another private sector job.

You can dig all you want, but you won't find anyone getting wealthy off of your GOAL donations (though attorneys do have to be paid, they are not GOAL employees). Ditto for Comm2a (no paid staff).

It's easy to criticize - but things tend to look different when you spend time getting a close up view at how things actually work, have experience with the legislature (Jim's sandbox), and work with expert legal counsel to determine what bites of the elephant you may be able to digest. Symbolic cases designed to make a point about our outrage accomplish nothing.

Some of the issues are "go federal or go home". We are NOT going to win on a mag ban, AW ban, or red flag law case in a Massachusetts court, no matter how solid our argument. The First Circuit tends to be anti-gun rights, and rules for us only when painted into a logical corner.

Federally speaking, the first circuit is an unlikely path (compared to some of the others) to a favorable decision on many of these issues that can be pushed further. I suppose Comm2A could file a "destined to lose" case in the first circuit if there is a win in another circuit to create a split and increast the chances of SCOTUS granting cert.

The only way for a win in a MA or the First Circuit course is a case that is very specific, does not provide the court with a laundry list of claims. Give them a list, and they can hang a bad decision on any one of them and gloss over the rest.


QFTMFT
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The biggest issue is wins at the national level, that reach into Blue States, are being ignored and nothing happens.
 

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