Contemplating new Gun in MA - high cap?

[sureshot]

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I think by August it may be time again for me to add to my modest collection. After checking all the web sites, reading about all the cool guns like the M&P and of course the "not available in MA" teasers, it occurred to me that given our laws I should maybe choose first the magazine, then the gun.

Let me explain: All of us have read about how cool the "new" guns are. Problem is that in MA we are limited to 10 rounds. Some of the "old" guns however are available with pre ban magazines of far greater than 10 rounds.
Well, sounds to me like I should start with whatever pre ban magazines are available!

Example: New S&W M&P 9mm vs. New Beretta 92 with pre ban high cap mags.

Although the S&W M&P sounds pretty nice, I think I would prefer the 15 round Beretta!

So my question is: What other current handguns have a good inexpensive supply of pre ban magazines? I am mostly looking for a 9mm and .45acp handguns. Any suggestions?

Related to this is my question on how to identify the magazines. I have read the Glock magazine sticky but find no info on Para, Beretta, Sig or others.

BTW, I have ruled out the Glock since I am looking for a "new" gun in MA, not a refurbished or used one.

Thanks and happy shooting to all!

 

[Pilgrim]

Isn't that sorta like buying a new car because of the size of the gas tank?

 

[highlander]

Ruger mags are cheap

 

[benster]

I'd recommend a Sig P226. PreBan HiCaps are plentiful.

 

[TY43215]

Two word answer:

Infinity Firearms

 

[FPrice]

BTW, I have ruled out the Glock since I am looking for a "new" gun in MA, not a refurbished or used one.

Bad choice. A Glock refurbished pistol is in very good shape. Please don't mistake "new" for "better".

 

[Lugnut]

Isn't that sorta like buying a new car because of the size of the gas tank?

+1 However many options exist where high caps are available. I assume this is a carry gun? Or do you just like having the "real" mags the gun was designed for? Do you have any 1911s? No need of preban mags there...

 

[PistolPete]

Two word answer:

Infinity Firearms

Better yet:
Brazos Custom
www.brazoscustom.com

Not quite MA compliant though...

Infinity firearms are nice. I have one and it's been a good gun.

 

[vellnueve]

In my safe, the guns I would reach for in order are

SW 520 (7 rounds .357 Mag)
SW1911 (8+1 rounds .45ACP)
SW M&P40 (10+1 rounds .40SW)
SW 638 (5 rounds .38+P)
SW SW9F (17+1 rounds 9mm)

My point being that magazine capacity is probably the least important thing to me for a defensive gun. Choosing a gun because it can hold a lot of rounds is the same reason that the US Military is stuck with 5.56 and 9mm. Go for the gun that fits your hand the best and that you can shoot well.

 

[Scrivener]

Better yet:
Brazos Custom
www.brazoscustom.com

Not quite MA compliant though...

Infinity firearms are nice. I have one and it's been a good gun.

Try "In no way, shape, manner or form are they compliant."

Note that Brazos, Baer and STI are all no-shows when it comes to supporting Massachusetts shooters (despite repeated importunings and proffered subsidies from a certain dealer).

SVI was the first 1911 maker on the AFR, the ONLY maker at the GCAB hearings on the target exemption law and the only maker to have its representative tender prepared material and statements at the EOPS hearing earlier this month.

Remember that when you're shopping.
Instead of an almost or wanna-be, get the SVI.

 

[PistolPete]

Try "In no way, shape, manner or form are they compliant."

Note that Brazos, Baer and STI are all no-shows when it comes to supporting Massachusetts shooters (despite repeated importunings and proffered subsidies from a certain dealer).

SVI was the first 1911 maker on the AFR, the ONLY maker at the GCAB hearings on the target exemption law and the only maker to have its representative tender prepared material and statements at the EOPS hearing earlier this month.

Remember that when you're shopping.
Instead of an almost or wanna-be, get the SVI.

That being said the Brazos is still a better gun.

 

[Ripach]

Bad choice. A Glock refurbished pistol is in very good shape. Please don't mistake "new" for "better".

+1 Don't be so quick to rule out Glock, the refurbs are very nice, "just like new".

My point being that magazine capacity is probably the least important thing to me for a defensive gun. Choosing a gun because it can hold a lot of rounds is the same reason that the US Military is stuck with 5.56 and 9mm. Go for the gun that fits your hand the best and that you can shoot well.

+1 Being able to hit the threat and effectively stop it is the #1 factor to consider in a defensive firearm.

 

[Scrivener]

That being said the Brazos is still a better gun.

By what tortured set of criteria?

What fundamental parts (frame, slide, barrel, trigger group), if any, did Brazos actually design?

What fundamntal parts does Brazos actually make?

Cobbling parts onto someone else's designs and frames does not a gunmaker make....

 

[hessy]

I'll take STI over SVI any day of the week. Get a frame and build your gun, may well turn out to be a better, cheaper, and faster way than ordering from SVI. Brazos or Dawson are highly recommended.
For high-capacity gun in MA cannot beat a refurb Glock.
For single-stack 1911, there is nothing wrong with S&W PC1911.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Back on topic...

Example: New S&W M&P 9mm vs. New Beretta 92 with pre ban high cap mags.

Although the S&W M&P sounds pretty nice, I think I would prefer the 15 round Beretta!

Picking the mag first is the wrong way to go about it. You're about 1000 times better off getting a pistol that you can shoot well rather than one that lets you pull the trigger a few more times between mag changes.

The example you used illustrates this perfectly. To me, holding a Beretta 92 is like holding a brick with a pipe sticking out of it. The grip shape, size, and angle are all wrong for me. It doesn't point naturally, I don't like to shoot it, and therefore I do not shoot it well.

The M&P on the other hand comes with interchangeable palm swells so you can "customize" the grip to best fit you. When I shoot the M&P, it feels like part of my hand.

Pick a gun that feels right in your hand, and that you shoot well.

 

[Cuz]

Ladies and Gentlemen:
So my question is: What other current handguns have a good inexpensive supply of pre ban magazines? I am mostly looking for a 9mm and .45acp handguns. Any suggestions?

Related to this is my question on how to identify the magazines. I have read the Glock magazine sticky but find no info on Para, Beretta, Sig or others.

BTW, I have ruled out the Glock since I am looking for a "new" gun in MA, not a refurbished or used one.

Thanks and happy shooting to all!

First off you should let us know the purpose of the gun. What are you planning to do with it? Carry gun? Competition gun? Recreational shooting?

Forget about the magazines, first decide what you most want to do with the gun and then research which guns are best suited for that purpose. Or get a multi-purpose middle-of-the-road jack-of-all-trades (master of none) type of gun. Why not consider a Revolver? Ok, I won't go there.

Based on what I'm reading in your post you should look at the Para. You can get a nice brandy new 9mm or 45 that will work with readily available pre-ban hi-cap mags. Next best bet is a Glock, whether or not you want to admit it. If I remember correctly you can get a used Glock, then send it to Glock for refurbishing which includes complete slide re-finishing and everything. Then drop in a competition trigger kit and replace the sights and you have one hell of a "do anything you want" gun. After not liking them for many years, My 9mm Glocks are rapidly becoming my favorite guns to shoot due to the cost of ammo.

Your budget is also something you should decide upon before picking a gun. Infinity Firearms are excellent. I have a 40 cal that I enjoy shooting, but is $3k in your budget, and do you want to wait 4-6 months to get it???

Shopping for a new gun is almost as much fun as taking it home and shooting it. It doesn't matter how much research I do, as soon as I actually make the purchase and get the gun setup the way I want I can't help but automatically start thinking about what I want next...

-Cuz.

 

[drgrant]

IMO find a gun that you can shoot well (or halfway decent at least) and
tolerate carrying. Worry about capacity later. For personal defense
you want something where:

-You are confident with the gun in terms of shooting with it and hitting what
you aim at.

-You can carry it as much as possible (eg, it's relatively concealable, instead
of dreading having to lug/conceal a huge gun. )

-You are confident of the ability of the gun to function when it is called
upon.

Whatever gun you choose it should satisfy all three of these. IMO capacity
isn't a huge issue, as statistically speaking you probably will never go beyond
whatever is loaded in the gun. If you feel you need more, carry an extra
mag or a speed loader.

That being said, I can understand the animosity towards cripplemags....
Awhile ago I flat out refused to buy guns that I only could have cripplemags
with, but in some cases the benefits of the particular gun outweighed any
perceived capacity advantage. So I made exceptions here and
there... and now I frequently carry a gun with a cripplemag in it, although
in this particular case I'm only getting screwed out of 2 rounds, as opposed
to say 4 or 7.


-Mike

 

[Scrivener]

I'll take STI over SVI any day of the week. Get a frame and build your gun, may well turn out to be a better, cheaper, and faster way than ordering from SVI.

Buying a bare frame and cobbling parts onto it is no more a real STI - or any other gun - than dropping a 427 into a kit is a real Cobra.

The OP is putting the cart before the horse, however. He should find a gun that fits, first.

 

[Supermoto]

Just to drive in what everyone else said... get the gun that you are most comfortable with... the one that you can shoot the best, the one that feels the best in your hand. Round count doesn't matter in carry or competition, cause in either case you can carry extra mags.

The debate over who is better SVI or Brazos is silly... everyone knows Bedell builds the best guns

 

[adweisbe]

Just to drive in what everyone else said... get the gun that you are most comfortable with... the one that you can shoot the best, the one that feels the best in your hand. Round count doesn't matter in carry or competition, cause in either case you can carry extra mags.

The debate over who is better SVI or Brazos is silly... everyone knows Bedell builds the best guns

+1 to what Supermoto said. Not only can you carry extra mags, but there is a division in both major action shooting sports where you can be competitive with 10 round magazines.

Has he expressed any interest in the shooting sports anyways?

Best gun == Glock?

 

[Chris]

Mags > 10 rounds are nothing special. You can always carry more mags, and learn to change them pretty quick. Get the tool for the job (ie, the right gun) and then worry about the mags.

Besides, why do you need 17 rounds when the whole idea is to make that first one count?

As for the M&P, wait a bit and you'll have access to the M&P 40c and the M&P45 both of which come standard with 10 round mags. Unless of course you have a need for 9mm.

 

[GTOShootr]

I used that "what can I get with the biggest magazine" reasoning once and ended up with a Para that just wasn't right for me. Ended up selling it to a friend that loves it.

How can you wait until August?





I'm not touching the SV/STI/Brazo/Bedell BS... seeing what runs at the match sorts that argument out all by itself.

 

[vellnueve]

Just to drive in what everyone else said... get the gun that you are most comfortable with... the one that you can shoot the best, the one that feels the best in your hand. Round count doesn't matter in carry or competition, cause in either case you can carry extra mags.

The debate over who is better SVI or Brazos is silly... everyone knows Bedell builds the best guns

S&W PC is obviously the best

 

[sureshot]

Thanks for all the responses. I agree with the "get what feels right in hand" statements. Sorry to disappoint, but the Glocks actually don't feel all that great to me. Much prefer shooting my 1911. To clarify a bit more: This is supposed to be more a range gun. Not interested in a ccw.

I am not sure I agree with the opinion that mag capacity does not matter. In my opinion the amount of bullets a gun holds is a major advantage over a gun that only holds 7 rounds or so like my 1911.

On the 9mm side, I have held the M&P as well as the 92 but without shooting it who knows. The trigger on the 92 was better in my opinion than the m&p.

Didn't know that that sig 226 pre ban mags are readily available. Anyone know where to get them?

On the 45acp side, I am leaning towards a para 14-45s. Most reviews seem pretty good and it is close to my 1911. Also I reload 45acp so shooting costs are not too bad.

BTW, when I buy a new car, the size of the tank is also important to me. I just hate to get gas. Same goes for reloading. Would rather load 1 mag with 10 to 17 rounds than 2 or 3 mags with 7!

Anybody have any good info on how to IDENTIFY pre ban mags besides Glocks?

 

[vellnueve]

The short version is that without a date stamp or a specific manufacturing variation (Sigmas went from 17 pre ban to 16 post ban) you cannot tell. Buy at your own risk.

Capacity doesn't matter at all IMO.

 

[TY43215]

How about 8 rounds?? For a range gun you can't go wrong.

I know, they don't take mags. I had to try though.

 

[JonJ]

How about 8 rounds?? For a range gun you can't go wrong.
I know, they don't take mags. I had to try though.

I've been waiting for this since the thread was started. What took you so long?

 

[PistolPete]

If you like shooting the 1911's then you'll be disappointed with most guns. The 1911's have the best triggers and are what other guns are compared to. Plus, the grip angle, ergonomics, and parts availabilty make it a great choice. The one drawback? Capacity....

However, a doublestack 1911 can be the cure. A Para can be had for pretty short money and preban mags are everywhere. Or, an SV or STI is another option. Preban mags are everywhere for these as well. It all depends on how much money you want to spend. If you have a couple of thousand then don't hesitate and buy an STI or SVI of some sort. I recommend having it built by a gunsmith though. (My SV has been 100% reliable and was built from SV- that being said)

If you don't have a ton of cash to spend then the M&P is the best choice. Same grip angle as a 1911. The MA trigger sux but it is such an easy fix I wouldn't even let that be a factor. Preban mags don't exist but I'm sure you have friends in other states that can shoot "with" you with high cap mags?

If you shoot 1911's well then my guess is that the Sig will be a huge disappointment for you. Yes, you can get preban mags etc. but if you like the grip angle of the 1911 then the Sig will be a disappointment. My first gun was a Sig P226 and it never jammed even after thousands of rounds. however, once I started shooting 1911's I couldn't shoot the Sig anymore because of the grip angle and long trigger travel. I've sold all my Sigs and never looked back.

Good luck...