Defensive shotguns. Recommendations for a defensive / USPSA shotgun

Rate_of_Twist

Rate_of_Twist

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I missed out on a few defensive shotgun courses my friend Seth Wish was hosting this year and I'm looking to make sure I'm ready to go this coming summer. I've done pistol courses, shoot USPSA with both pistol and rifle but all of my shotgun expedite has been limited too clays (I suck ) and pheasants ( I suck, my dog is awesome )

I'm looking to put away some pocket change to get of defensive type shotgun for the spring to work on some skills (maybe a USPSA shotgun match if there one this year?)

I need a shotgun.

Not looking for a "gaming" gun, looking for something practical.

I REALLY REALLY DONT want anything Remington. They suck. Their a shitty company. Their a cancer in the gun business...

I'm not sold one way or the other semi vs pump.

The FNH p-12 looks interesting,but I like shot LOP stocks and their are no accessories made for this.

We have a used versa max tactical that is decked out for 3 gun at the shop I work Saturdays at, but if a F'n Remington

The 930 and 590s are ok, but mossberg..... I don't know

I don't have a price in mind, but I'm supposed to be saving money not spending....

I'm not in a hurry, I'm really just trying to get ideas for the time being
 
I'll take a Mossberg any day.

I keep five of them here and although I don't shoot them as much as I do my rifles and pistols, they do get a work out now and then and have yet to fail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossberg_500#Military_use


From WIKI:
Mossberg claims the Model 500 is the only shotgun to pass the U.S. Army's Mil-Spec 3443E test, "a brutal and unforgiving torture test with 3,000 rounds of full power 12 gauge buckshot". (The updated 3443G specification requires a metal trigger guard, so only the Model 590A1 variants, which have a heavier barrel and use metal trigger groups instead of the standard Model 500's plastic trigger groups, will fit the requirements.[SUP][2][/SUP]) The 500M MILS have the metal trigger group, and the heavier 20in barrel.
While the Marines officially switched to the semi-automatic M1014 Combat Shotgun in 1999, various branches of the U.S. military are still acquiring pump shotguns. The Navy acquired several thousand Mossberg 590A1 shotguns in 2004,[SUP][9][/SUP] and the U.S. Army placed an order in 2005 for 14,818 units at a price of just over US$316 each[SUP][10][/SUP] (the Benelli M1014 is considerably more expensive).
In 2009, U.S. Special Forces Groups procured Military Enhancement Kits to provide a standardized shotgun configuration based on the Mossberg 500. The kits included a collapsible stock, "shotgun retention system", 1913 receiver rail, forend rail system and breaching barrels. A total of 1301 shotguns were converted with the first unit being equipped in July 2009. The majority of the kits convert the standard issue shotgun to a 14" compact model with a 16" accessory breaching barrel, H92239-09-P-0113.[SUP][11][/SUP]
As of 2012, the U.S. Army is in the process of replacing the M500 with the M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System, of which 9,000 are funded and under contract. The new shotgun is designed to be mounted in an underbarrel configuration on an M4 Carbine, similar to the M203 or M320 grenade launchers, or used as a stand-alone weapon.[SUP][12]

[/SUP]
 
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Finalygotabeltfed said:
I'll take a Mossberg any day.

I keep five of them here and although I don't shoot them as much as I do my rifles and pistols, they do get a work out now and then and have yet to fail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossberg_500#Military_use


From WIKI:
Mossberg claims the Model 500 is the only shotgun to pass the U.S. Army's Mil-Spec 3443E test, "a brutal and unforgiving torture test with 3,000 rounds of full power 12 gauge buckshot". (The updated 3443G specification requires a metal trigger guard, so only the Model 590A1 variants, which have a heavier barrel and use metal trigger groups instead of the standard Model 500's plastic trigger groups, will fit the requirements.[SUP][2][/SUP]) The 500M MILS have the metal trigger group, and the heavier 20in barrel.
While the Marines officially switched to the semi-automatic M1014 Combat Shotgun in 1999, various branches of the U.S. military are still acquiring pump shotguns. The Navy acquired several thousand Mossberg 590A1 shotguns in 2004,[SUP][9][/SUP] and the U.S. Army placed an order in 2005 for 14,818 units at a price of just over US$316 each[SUP][10][/SUP] (the Benelli M1014 is considerably more expensive).
In 2009, U.S. Special Forces Groups procured Military Enhancement Kits to provide a standardized shotgun configuration based on the Mossberg 500. The kits included a collapsible stock, "shotgun retention system", 1913 receiver rail, forend rail system and breaching barrels. A total of 1301 shotguns were converted with the first unit being equipped in July 2009. The majority of the kits convert the standard issue shotgun to a 14" compact model with a 16" accessory breaching barrel, H92239-09-P-0113.[SUP][11][/SUP]
As of 2012, the U.S. Army is in the process of replacing the M500 with the M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System, of which 9,000 are funded and under contract. The new shotgun is designed to be mounted in an underbarrel configuration on an M4 Carbine, similar to the M203 or M320 grenade launchers, or used as a stand-alone weapon.[SUP][12]

[/SUP]
Click to expand...

Ok, point noted. But, does that mean I should sell all my competition pistols and go to a Beretta 92?
 
Finalygotabeltfed said:
Sorry I even replied. Smart ass!!!
Click to expand...

usp45ct said:
So so you ask for opinions, he gives you an opinion based on the military's selections, and you give him some snarky remark?
Click to expand...

The two of you have been around here way to long to get butt hurt over that comment.... Seriously.

Is was not intended to be snarky as I acknowledged that I was overlooking Mossberg and maybe I shouldn't be. The point is, as is with the 92, is is that the "best" option or the option filled by the lowest cost vendor. As the wiki you posted suggested there are "better" options, but the cost more. My intention in asking the question is to those that might be able to offer a cost vs return opinion in maximizing what I'm paying for what I get in return.

Like you, I have the ability to google and get to a wiki page.... My interest specifically is the knowledge base and 1st hand experience here on NES, for which I have great respect for.

Again, I'm not sure why, given my track record here, either one of you feel as though I'm being a "smart ass"
 
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**DRB** said:
The two of you have been around here way to long to get butt hurt over that comment.... Seriously.

Is was not intended to be snarky as I acknowledged that I was overlooking Mossberg and maybe I shouldn't be. The point is, as is with the 92, is is that the "best" option or the option filled by the lowest cost vendor. As the wiki you posted suggested there are "better" options, but the cost more. My intention in asking the question is to those that might be able to offer a cost vs return opinion in maximizing what I'm paying for what I get in return.

Like you, I have the ability to google and get to a wiki page.... My interest specifically is the knowledge base and 1st hand experience here on NES, for which I have great respect for.

Again, I'm not sure why, given my track record here, either one of you feel as though I'm being a "smart ass"
Click to expand...


Im not butt hurt, just thought you were being an *******. I now realize your just trolling.
 
usp45ct said:
Im not butt hurt, just thought you were being an *******. I now realize your just trolling.
Click to expand...

Not the slightest. I also read finallygotabeltfed post, and replied before I realized finallygotabeltfed edited his post to include 1st hand experience. Thanks for that.

I have no need to troll my own thread, just asked a honest question for those that have more experience than I do

Again, not sure why you think I'm trolling or being an ass.... A wiki was posted that suggested a mossberg 500, 590, m4 and military m26 system. Just trying to understand why and what is being suggested
 
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I've got a 590A1 w/20" barrel, and a Versa Max Tactical (neither of which I use for any competitive shooting). Both 8+1, but that Remington sure can dump shells quickly. I've tried to get it to hang up, but it hasn't. I've only run 2-3/4 and 3" through it. Any pump can get short-stroked, but they are easy to top off. I prefer a cross bolt safety, but have not had problems with Mossberg's tang safety. The Versa Max's oversized controls & trigger guard are very easy to deal with while wearing heavy gloves. The simplicity of its gas operating system, compared to some others, is bonus.
 
pupchow said:
I've got a 590A1 w/20" barrel, and a Versa Max Tactical (neither of which I use for any competitive shooting). Both 8+1, but that Remington sure can dump shells quickly. I've tried to get it to hang up, but it hasn't. I've only run 2-3/4 and 3" through it. Any pump can get short-stroked, but they are easy to top off. I prefer a cross bolt safety, but have not had problems with Mossberg's tang safety. The Versa Max's oversized controls & trigger guard are very easy to deal with while wearing heavy gloves. The simplicity of its gas operating system, compared to some others, is bonus.
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Are you running pistol grips on either?
 
**DRB** said:
Are you running pistol grips on either?
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Not in MA, I'm not (VersaMax). No.


I've handled them, but not used them. They feel too restrictive to me. Also, with the Mossy tang safety, the pistol grip was awkward.
 
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Remington may not be what it once was but back in 82 (on around then) I had an 870 Wingmaster that was flawless. I picked up a third barrel for slugs and whatever and it was great for that too. It's high on my wish I never sold need to replace list. An 870 of that eara would be a great defense gun. Times change, back then Mossberg was the cheap imitation, now it's high on the list for most.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
pupchow said:
Not in MA, I'm not (VersaMax). No.


I've handled them, but not used them. They feel too restrictive to me. Also, with the Mossy tang safety, the pistol grip was awkward.
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I'm not sure I actually want a pistol grip, but the versa max I handled had a Mesa Tactical Urbino on it and it pointed better than anything I've picked up.... Mesa makes this stock for just about everything other than the 500 and 590

The 590 with the Magpul stock seems intriguing

- - - Updated - - -

wahsben said:
You might want to look at the Winchester SXP also.
Click to expand...

I believe the SXP is a FN P-12 made in Turkey? Do you have an SXP? I've typically shunned a Winchester because of the name, but as I've already stated and admitted with mossberg that's probably wrong to do on my part
 
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For a pump looks like the 590 is my clear cut best choice, I've decided the m2 is more than I want to spend, but the Stoeger M3000 is a very interesting alternative.
 
You might look at the Benelli Super Nova pump, as well. We had a group buy of them here about 5 years ago, and I picked up their non-pistolgrip tactical version. Solid gun, does a great job soaking up slug recoil, nice sights. Nordic makes mag extensions. I've run it back to back with 870s, and I prefer the Benelli.

Their biggest drawback is the cost of extra barrels. Last time I priced them I decided it'd be more cost effective to buy a second gun instead.
 
I have an SXP and am pleased with it so far but have not really put a lot of rounds through it.

**DRB** said:
I'm not sure I actually want a pistol grip, but the versa max I handled had a Mesa Tactical Urbino on it and it pointed better than anything I've picked up.... Mesa makes this stock for just about everything other than the 500 and 590

The 590 with the Magpul stock seems intriguing

- - - Updated - - -



I believe the SXP is a FN P-12 made in Turkey? Do you have an SXP? I've typically shunned a Winchester because of the name, but as I've already stated and admitted with mossberg that's probably wrong to do on my part
Click to expand...
 
**DRB** said:
Not the slightest. I also read finallygotabeltfed post, and replied before I realized finallygotabeltfed edited his post to include 1st hand experience. Thanks for that.

I have no need to troll my own thread, just asked a honest question for those that have more experience than I do

Again, not sure why you think I'm trolling or being an ass.... A wiki was posted that suggested a mossberg 500, 590, m4 and military m26 system. Just trying to understand why and what is being suggested
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but if you really do shoot USPSA then asking if you should dump your competition guns (whatever they are) and get a Beretta 92 IS a snarky remark given that I (and you) can probably count on 1 hand the number of times we have seen 92's in a USPSA match.
 
spt_1955 said:
I'm sorry but if you really do shoot USPSA then asking if you should dump your competition guns (whatever they are) and get a Beretta 92 IS a snarky remark given that I (and you) can probably count on 1 hand the number of times we have seen 92's in a USPSA match.
Click to expand...

Please don't tell me my intensions. It was a question of if a 500 was the best gun for the situation or a case of the military buying from the lowest cost vendor before I realized the person who posted it had their first had experience listed in the lost. From my point of view it was someone posting nothing more than a wiki post with no personal use to back it up.... As I've said, I was wrong

To go one step further, my original question is pretty stupid. No many people trycand mix competition gear and defensive gear for good reason. None of my pistols that I've used for completion purposes are used as carry guns.... If you want to think I'm an idiot, I would agree with you one that. If you want to think I asked a stupid question, I would agree with that. If you think I'm a jackass and said something stupid, I says its probably happened more than once today. If you want to think you know me, or my intentions or that I'm trying to intentionally crap on another member here, I would say your completely wrong
 
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So the winner is of all things the Stoeger M3000. I came very close to pulling the trigger on the 590, but I really wanted the 24" ribbed barrel with chokes. Thanks to all for the recommendations of the Benelli M2.... While the M2 is light years beyond a simple Stoeger I would have never found the info on the Brian Enos forums with everything the guys are doing to the Stoeger Inertia guns....

Got my fingers crossed this little experiment works as good at everyone over there.

Traded in a few extras I had lying around and picked up the 24" M3000. Out the door for under $500. I'm gonna put 500 rounds through it before doing any upgrades to capacity or trigger / sights
 
I don't know why you would question Mossberg. FGBF is spot on with his analysis. Good enough for the .mil. Another dark horse if you can find one in good shape would be an old Ithaca Police Shotgun. These were very good combat shottys and widely used in police service. There is a new Ithaca company but I don't know much about them.

You can go the uber semi auto tactical shotgun route Benelli etc. and not go wrong, but if you are on a budget, I think a Mossberg pump would be hard to beat. Lest anyone get trolley or butt hurt I've owned a Mossberg 500 and regret selling it.

While the M9 wouldn't be my first choice I never felt under gunned or inadequately armed when I carried it professionally. I suppose one could easily reply "well should I trade all my rifles for an M4 or an M16" Afterall they are low bidder guns, right? Methinks someone got snarky and then backpedaled. FGABF and I probably don't see eye to eye on a lot of social and political issues but he knows his shotguns IMO and his opinion is reasoned, knowledgable and informed opinion.

Update: so you got a Stoeger. Made in Turkey as I recall. Never owned a Turkish shotgun but I lived there and handled them and they have a great tradition of shotgun making. I have seen some fine doubles and o/u with some great Circassian walnut stocks. The tradition and workmanship on those guns was good so I'm sure you will be pleased with your selection.
 
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mark056 said:
I don't know why you would question Mossberg. FGBF is spot on with his analysis. Good enough for the .mil. Another dark horse if you can find one in good shape would be an old Ithaca Police Shotgun. These were very good combat shottys and widely used in police service. There is a new Ithaca company but I don't know much about them.

You can go the uber semi auto tactical shotgun route Benelli etc. and not go wrong, but if you are on a budget, I think a Mossberg pump would be hard to beat. Lest anyone get trolley or butt hurt I've owned a Mossberg 500 and regret selling it.

While the M9 wouldn't be my first choice I never felt under gunned or inadequately armed when I carried it professionally. I suppose one could easily reply "well should I trade all my rifles for an M4 or an M16" Afterall they are low bidder guns, right? Methinks someone got snarky and then backpedaled. FGABF and I probably don't see eye to eye on a lot of social and political issues but he knows his shotguns IMO and his opinion is reasoned, knowledgable and informed opinion.

Update: so you got a Stoeger. Made in Turkey as I recall. Never owned a Turkish shotgun but I lived there and handled them and they have a great tradition of shotgun making. I have seen some fine doubles and o/u with some great Circassian walnut stocks. The tradition and workmanship on those guns was good so I'm sure you will be pleased with your selection.
Click to expand...

I really don't get it... Look guys, nobody dislikes me more than me. I'm an idiot. I started this thread by saying as much as I suck so bad I couldn't hit the bird my dog put up for me. My statement wasn't I stemmed to be anything more than exactly what you just said in your own post.... I don't like the M9 and know many that used it professionally that don't like it either....

I can handle it if you guys hate me, or think I'm a dumb ass or want to neg rep or troll me. Like I said, I agree, I'm a dumb ass.... I stated very frankly directly to to people in this thread that that was absolutely NOT my intentions. I very honestly appreciate everything NES has done for me and helped me with and it really bugs me that you guys think I'm trying to go out of my way to piss people off here. (Especially given the vile crap some people say to others here). I've done my best to publicly apologize when I've crossed the line before with other members and I'll do it here, I really apologize for the way I posted that reply as it seems as though everyone believes I was out to get someone. ThAts really not the case now and wasn't them.... But I understand perception is reality so it's my fault

I'll just shut the **** up now
 
**DRB** said:
I really don't get it... Look guys, nobody dislikes me more than me. I'm an idiot. I started this thread by saying as much as I suck so bad I couldn't hit the bird my dog put up for me. My statement wasn't I stemmed to be anything more than exactly what you just said in your own post.... I don't like the M9 and know many that used it professionally that don't like it either.... I can handle it if you guys hate me, or think I'm a dumb ass or want to neg rep or troll me. Like I said, I agree, I'm a dumb ass.... I stated very frankly directly to to people in this thread that that was absolutely NOT my intentions. I very honestly appreciate everything NES has done for me and helped me with and it really bugs me that you guys think I'm trying to go out of my way to piss people off here. (Especially given the vile crap some people say to others here). I've done my best to publicly apologize when I've crossed the line before with other members and I'll do it here, I really apologize for the way I posted that reply as it seems as though everyone believes I was out to get someone. ThAts really not the case now and wasn't them.... But I understand perception is reality so it's my fault I'll just shut the **** up now
Click to expand...

Well DRB look at it this way: everybody gets dumped on here on NES, I have for sure. It's 2016, you got yours out of the way early now you can sit back and enjoy the rest of the year whereas mine is still looming on the horizon.

Happy new year and enjoy that new shotgun ! [cheers]
 

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