Do I tell, or don't I tell?

[rogersmithiii]

I've heard two reasonably good, opposing arguments as to whether you inform an officer who has stopped you for a traffic violation that you're carrying. In Massachusetts, I don't think there is a requirement to do so.

On the "yes" side, people suggest that an officer who sees a LTC automatically assumes you're a card-carrying good guy. His stress level evaporates since he knows that the state doesn't give out LTCs to bad guys, and the stop goes much more smoothly for all concerned.

On the "no" side, telling an officer that you're carrying is going to escalate the heck out of the stress level. There's now a gun involved that could put the PO at serious risk. It's likely that the officer is going to take the gun away from you during the stop (which increases the likelihood that there's going to be an AD), and there's going to be a whole load more questions about the gun in addition to the traffic stop. If he's one of those anti-gun cops, it could get very uncomfortable.

Sure the real answer is to not get stopped, and to not attract the attention of any POs in the course of your daily routine (my favorite solution since attracting police attention too often can give a chief cause to pull a permit). Even so, I'd like to hear the opinions of any people on this board. My gut suggests to tell the officer as little as possible to minimize the time spent under the officer's watchful gaze. I for one don't want to me mistaken for a bank robbery suspect who just ripped off the local branch an hour before.

Thanks

 

[JimB]

no

from what i understand there is no law requiring that you tell
the officer. I think its best they don't know no need to escalate
the situation...

we have several atty's, they might care to elaboreate..

Best, do a search, i think we have discuseed this before..

JimB

 

[doobie]

IANAL... but no. Don't tell unless asked or asked to get out of the car.

How does the LEO know if you have a gun unless you tell or show him? If you don't need to get out of the car there is no need to inform the LEO. AFAIK your LTC will not come up on the computer during a routine traffic stop. Just because you have an LTC doesn't mean you are carrying.

If you are carrying and he asks, you respond (with your hands on the steering wheel), I have a valid LTC (assuming in MA), I am carrying a (whatever you are carrying), then ask "How would you like me to proceed?" It may be a good idea to have your wallet somewhere you can reach it without moving your hands anywhere near your firearm.

My $.02. I never had to deal with this so no idea where it would go. However this has been discussed here a number of times in the past.

 

[P-14]

You Need to Learn How To SEARCH NES!

Hashed and rehashed here many times. Just to list a few:

http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=27845&highlight=carrying+traffic+violation
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=20432&highlight=carrying+traffic+violation
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=26551

For me depends on the situation. If I was asked, "Any guns or drugs in the car" as a friend was when he was stopped in the Peoples Republic of Cambridge, I'd probably say, "I have a LTC-A and am armed. How would you like to proceed?" (As recommended by Massad Ayoob).

 

[Lynne]

IANAL... but no. Don't tell unless asked or asked to get out of the car.

How does the LEO know if you have a gun unless you tell or show him? If you don't need to get out of the car there is no need to inform the LEO. AFAIK your LTC will not come up on the computer during a routine traffic stop. Just because you have an LTC doesn't mean you are carrying.

If you are carrying and he asks, you respond (with your hands on the steering wheel), I have a valid LTC (assuming in MA), I am carrying a (whatever you are carrying), then ask "How would you like me to proceed?" It may be a good idea to have your wallet somewhere you can reach it without moving your hands anywhere near your firearm.

My $.02. I never had to deal with this so no idea where it would go. However this has been discussed here a number of times in the past.

What doobie said, along with telling the officer "my license is in my wallet, located (where ever you have your wallet), now how would you like me to proceed officer?" And definately state that you have a MA LTC FIRST!! Don't start by answering "do you have any guns in the car?" with a yes.

 

[Dick Manley]

There is no law stating that you must inform the officer if you are carrying. The best thing to do is keep your mouth shut unless we ask you. And yes when you run a plate and the information will come up that you have fire arms. It goes as far as to what you have when you bought them and what the serial numbers are. Its called a BOPFI on CJIS a terminal, so if you think that the officer stopping you doesnt know your wrong. For the most part we will not give you a hard time on a minor CMVI but if I am stopping you b/c you fit the descrption of a vehicle involved in an A&B or a robbery then I will pay special attention to that area on my MDT.


-DM-

O yeah by the way when we covered this issue in the academy (firearms during a MV stop) It was ingrained in our heads to leave the firearm where it is to prevent and AD.

 

[drgrant]

There is no law stating that you must inform the officer if you are carrying. The best thing to do is keep your mouth shut unless we ask you. And yes when you run a plate and the information will come up that you have fire arms. It goes as far as to what you have when you bought them and what the serial numbers are. Its called a BOPFI on CJIS a terminal, so if you think that the officer stopping you doesnt know your wrong. For the most part we will not give you a hard time on a minor CMVI but if I am stopping you b/c you fit the descrption of a vehicle involved in an A&B or a robbery then I will pay special attention to that area on my MDT.
-DM-

Is this the case for just your PD or for all of MA?

Last I knew most PDs didn't have this capability, at least a cursory check won't show whether or not an individual has an LTC. I've never been asked, although I don't get pulled over very often. In one case however, had they known I probably would have definitely been asked. (I worked late at a building which got hit by someone B+E'ing a few times, so the police kept tabs on the place and pulled me over once when they saw me leave there late. I was packing at the time and was never asked about it. They just asked what I was doing, for my DL, and then
let me go on my way.

I know in some locales, the PD DOES keep a database of where their LTC holders are in town, etc, and the residences get "flagged" etc.

As far as the whole serial number bit goes, it's impossible for that database to be completely accurate. If someone has an old gun which isn't in the state's system, or they moved here with the gun, (which no registration" is required when you first take residency in MA) the state will not have a record of it. It's also very possible for have an individual who may have an LTC but CHSB or whoever will show him as owning "zero" guns because he/she never bought any since they moved into the state; or that all his guns were bought before the "bird poop/rat poop" incident.

-Mike

 

[JGreen]

There is no law stating that you must inform the officer if you are carrying. The best thing to do is keep your mouth shut unless we ask you. And yes when you run a plate and the information will come up that you have fire arms. It goes as far as to what you have when you bought them and what the serial numbers are. Its called a BOPFI on CJIS a terminal, so if you think that the officer stopping you doesnt know your wrong. For the most part we will not give you a hard time on a minor CMVI but if I am stopping you b/c you fit the descrption of a vehicle involved in an A&B or a robbery then I will pay special attention to that area on my MDT.


-DM-

O yeah by the way when we covered this issue in the academy (firearms during a MV stop) It was ingrained in our heads to leave the firearm where it is to prevent and AD.

Thanks DM! This is another confirmation that the info we give out is spot on.

 

[Recono]

O yeah by the way when we covered this issue in the academy (firearms during a MV stop) It was ingrained in our heads to leave the firearm where it is to prevent and AD.

Good to hear that some folks out there are using their heads.

Thanks for posting.

 

[M1911]

O yeah by the way when we covered this issue in the academy (firearms during a MV stop) It was ingrained in our heads to leave the firearm where it is to prevent and AD.

I'm glad to hear that.

As others have said, in MA you do not have to notify the officer. If I am carrying and am stopped, I will not volunteer the information. I will keep my hands on the wheel and not make any furtive movements.

If the officer asks me to step out of the car, then I will respond as Ayoob suggested when I took LFI-1, "Certainly Officer, however I have a license to carry and I am carrying now. How would you like to proceed?"

That tells the officer that I have an LTC (and am therefore likely to be a good guy), I'm carrying now, and I'll do whatever he tells me. And it does all that without ever using the word GUN. Saying "I've got a gun" would not be a good thing.

 

[KMaurer]

There is no law stating that you must inform the officer if you are carrying. The best thing to do is keep your mouth shut unless we ask you. And yes when you run a plate and the information will come up that you have fire arms. It goes as far as to what you have when you bought them and what the serial numbers are. Its called a BOPFI on CJIS a terminal, so if you think that the officer stopping you doesnt know your wrong. For the most part we will not give you a hard time on a minor CMVI but if I am stopping you b/c you fit the descrption of a vehicle involved in an A&B or a robbery then I will pay special attention to that area on my MDT.


-DM-

O yeah by the way when we covered this issue in the academy (firearms during a MV stop) It was ingrained in our heads to leave the firearm where it is to prevent and AD.

One additional time I'd suggest telling the officer that (1) you have your current LTC in ________ and (2) that you're carrying would be if you have some reason to believe that the officer is going to notice your firearm. After all, nobody really likes surprises under these circumstances.

I have to wonder, though, why you'd pay close attention to that information on the MDT. I'd think that you're several orders of magnitude more likely to have serious trouble from someone who hasn't bothered to jump through the hoops required to get an LTC. I'm certain that if an officer was ever assaulted with a properly licensed firearm, the Boston Globe would never let us overlook the incident, though I don't recall reading about one.

Ken

 

[Dick Manley]

I have to wonder, though, why you'd pay close attention to that information on the MDT. I'd think that you're several orders of magnitude more likely to have serious trouble from someone who hasn't bothered to jump through the hoops required to get an LTC. I'm certain that if an officer was ever assaulted with a properly licensed firearm, the Boston Globe would never let us overlook the incident, though I don't recall reading about one.

Ken

Its more of a piece of mind thing. It is nice to know if he/she has any registerd firearms, but the two gun incidents I have dealt with (im still a rookie with a little more than a year) neither were legal guns one was defaced and the other was stolen out of VT.

 

[JonJ]

There is no law stating that you must inform the officer if you are carrying. The best thing to do is keep your mouth shut unless we ask you. And yes when you run a plate and the information will come up that you have fire arms. It goes as far as to what you have when you bought them and what the serial numbers are. Its called a BOPFI on CJIS a terminal, so if you think that the officer stopping you doesnt know your wrong. For the most part we will not give you a hard time on a minor CMVI but if I am stopping you b/c you fit the descrption of a vehicle involved in an A&B or a robbery then I will pay special attention to that area on my MDT.


-DM-

O yeah by the way when we covered this issue in the academy (firearms during a MV stop) It was ingrained in our heads to leave the firearm where it is to prevent and AD.

So when you query a MA plate on your MDT, you automatically get the information that the registered owner has a LTC/FID or not and a list of firearms registered to him or her?
What client/server software are you running?

 

[kevin9]

I'm certain that if an officer was ever assaulted with a properly licensed firearm, the Boston Globe would never let us overlook the incident, though I don't recall reading about one.

Ken

FYI

By Ray Henry, Associated Press Writer | December 12, 2006
NEW BEDFORD, Mass. --A man barred from a strip club after his relationship with a bartender soured returned around closing time Tuesday and fatally shot a bouncer...The attacker, identified by police as 35-year-old Scott Medeiros, wounded three other people, including two officers...Freetown Police Chief Carlton Abbott said Medeiros was issued a weapons license in 2005 that permitted him to buy assault-style military rifles.

It does happen, rarely.

 

[MichaelJ]

I've only been pulled over once while carrying and the first thing out of my mouth was "I have a LTC and currently am carrying." He wanted to know where it was on me and then he wanted my LTC with my drivers license and registration. (Oh yeah, I was pulled over 50' from an ice cream shop that I was at prior and I forgot to turn my lights on - it was bright with the street lights on). He then went back to his car, came back within a few more and gave it all back and said have a nice day. Oh yeah...then he came back to chat from half way back to his car about what kind of gun and if I liked it and this and that. Before leaving my car for good, he said "Nice to see people taking responsibility". WOOHOO!!! pro 2a cops in a formerly anti 2a city (Pittsfield). I have decided from now on that I will always inform and let it go from there (I have a NRA sticker on the back of the Jeep anyway so they probably know) as I will hopefully be a LEO within a year and I would want to know upfront and not be surprised later.

 

[Dick Manley]

So when you query a MA plate on your MDT, you automatically get the information that the registered owner has a LTC/FID or not and a list of firearms registered to him or her?
What client/server software are you running?

It will just come up as a BOPFI and its CJIS mobile.

 

[abiffmaster]

There is no law stating that you must inform the officer if you are carrying. The best thing to do is keep your mouth shut unless we ask you. And yes when you run a plate and the information will come up that you have fire arms. It goes as far as to what you have when you bought them and what the serial numbers are. Its called a BOPFI on CJIS a terminal, so if you think that the officer stopping you doesnt know your wrong. For the most part we will not give you a hard time on a minor CMVI but if I am stopping you b/c you fit the descrption of a vehicle involved in an A&B or a robbery then I will pay special attention to that area on my MDT.


-DM-

O yeah by the way when we covered this issue in the academy (firearms during a MV stop) It was ingrained in our heads to leave the firearm where it is to prevent and AD.

Do local LEO officers have access to this information or is it just State Troopers?

 

[Dick Manley]

Do local LEO officers have access to this information or is it just State Troopers?

It really all depends on what program you are running on your MDT. I have used CJIS mobile, and CPLIMS.

 

[KMM696]

It also depends on whether you have an MDT at all - a lot of the really small towns in W. Mass don't, so we need to get anything like LTC or firearm info from dispatch.