Do Magazine Disconnect Safeties effect trigger pull?

[rufunky]

Do Magazine Disconnect Safeties effect trigger pull? If so, can someone explain how.

 

[Cross-X]

Purist bullseye shooters would remove them from their competition guns in the belief that they did promote a bad feel to the trigger. Someone else can step in and explain further.

 

[RKG]

Magazine safeties work as a sort of disconnector, except that they are triggered by the presence of the magazine (or not) versus the presence of the slot in the in-battery slide (or not). As a result, the magazine safety makes a mechanical connection to the trigger or trigger bar, adds a degree of flex to the trigger geometry, and adds to trigger pull weight, trigger pull distance, or trigger pull "feel" ("grittiness").

 

[rufunky]

Thanks guys, is there anyway to fix this without disabling the MDS by having the trigger adjusted or something.One of the reasons I wanted a 1911 is because of the firing speed. Anyone with a SW1911 or any other 1911 with a MDS care to share there thoughts opinions ideas?

 

[jar]

The SW1911 doesn't have a mag disconnect. I don't know of any 1911s with a mag disconnect, but there could be some out there. IMO if it has a mag disconnect it's not a real 1911.

 

[rufunky]

The SW1911 doesn't have a mag disconnect. I don't know of any 1911s with a mag disconnect, but there could be some out there.

Thanks jar, are you sure the SW1911 does not have a MDS? I was reading in a couple different articles how they do and are now required by Ma Regulations to make it on the Ma compliant roster.

I'm trying to find the articles now. Who knows, maybe I read them wrong it was 4:00 am.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

hanks jar, are you sure the SW1911 does not have a MDS?

If he's not sure, he should be.

You are probably thinking about the firing pin block safety. Older 1911's don't have this doodad.

Among those that do, there is the series 80 style that uses a lever connected to the trigger to push up the firing pin block plunger. Since the trigger moves extra parts, this impacts trigger pull. Colt (current production) and Para use this system. See US patent 455861.

Another system uses a connection between the grip safety and the firing pin block, so that actuating the grip safety unblocks the firing pin. This does not impact the trigger pull, but it does mean the gun can go off is someone whacks the muzzle of your 1911 with a baseball bat while you hold it with your finger outside the trigger guard. This safety, known as the Schwartz safety, was introduced in 1937 and only in production for a short period of time thereafter (until it was resurrected by Kimber and S&W). See US patent 2169084.

The MA compliant roster does not require any particular mechanical design, but does require that the firing mechanism not ignite primed cases when dropped onto concrete from a one meter height. There are some 1911s that have passed this test without a firing pin block safety.

Also, the "target list" does not require any such drop test.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Thanks jar, are you sure the SW1911 does not have a MDS? I was reading in a couple different articles how they do and are now required by Ma Regulations to make it on the Ma compliant roster.

I'm trying to find the articles now. Who knows, maybe I read them wrong it was 4:00 am.

My MA-compliant S&W 1911 has no such thing.

Mag disconnects are NOT required. They are one method of meeting the asinine requirements, but they are not the only solution to the non-existent problem.

 

[packingungal]

but they are not the only solution to the non-existent problem.

 

[M1911]

Thanks jar, are you sure the SW1911 does not have a MDS? I was reading in a couple different articles how they do and are now required by Ma Regulations to make it on the Ma compliant roster.

The regulations require, among other things, either a magazine safety disconnect or a chamber-loaded indicator. The SW1911 has a chamber-loaded indicator (a hole in the top of the barrel hood); it does not have a magazine safety disconnect. I'm not aware of any 1911 that has a magazine safety disconnect.

The S&W firing pin safety is controlled by the grip safety -- depressing the grip safety releases the firing pin safety. Kimber uses a similar system in its Kimber II models. This system has been criticized for other reasons, but not for changing the feel of the trigger pull.

 

[rufunky]

Good to hear, I wasn't to thrilled with the MDS idea. Thanks for taking the time to explain Rob and M1911.

Thanks for the confirmation LenS .

 

[jar]

Thanks jar, are you sure the SW1911 does not have a MDS? I was reading in a couple different articles how they do and are now required by Ma Regulations to make it on the Ma compliant roster.

I'm trying to find the articles now. Who knows, maybe I read them wrong it was 4:00 am.

Yeah, I'm sure because I own one. Others have explained the history and situation already so I won't bore you by repeating it. I think mag disconnects are stupid, and I plan to remove them from the guns I have that came with them. Thankfully the one on my Hi-power was already removed when I got it.

 

[rufunky]

I think mag disconnects are stupid, and I plan to remove them from the guns I have that came with them. Thankfully the one on my Hi-power was already removed when I got it.

I may have been getting confused as the threads/articles I was reading were talking about both the 1911 and Hi-power.

Thanks again

 

[Chuck]

Do Magazine Disconnect Safeties effect trigger pull? If so, can someone explain how.

Big effect on Browning HiPowers. A good 'smith can smooth it out, but it's easier to just remove one part and bend one spring.

The reason is the disconnect functions by having a small shoe that reaches out for the magazine when the trigger is pulled. If it hits a mag, it slides (how smoothly depends on the mag and shoe) a bit while the trigger is pulled through. If there is no mag the shoe never stops it's rearward travel and doesn't permit the Rube Goldberg like trigger transfer.

-= chuck

 

[vellnueve]

Thanks guys, is there anyway to fix this without disabling the MDS by having the trigger adjusted or something.One of the reasons I wanted a 1911 is because of the firing speed. Anyone with a SW1911 or any other 1911 with a MDS care to share there thoughts opinions ideas?

Firing speed?

 

[Executive]

Look on the side of the frame. Does it say "CAUTION: Capable of being fired with the magazine removed." ? There's your answer.


Chris

 

[meth0d]

If he's not sure, he should be.

You are probably thinking about the firing pin block safety. Older 1911's don't have this doodad.

Among those that do, there is the series 80 style that uses a lever connected to the trigger to push up the firing pin block plunger. Since the trigger moves extra parts, this impacts trigger pull. Colt (current production) and Para use this system. See US patent 455861.

Another system uses a connection between the grip safety and the firing pin block, so that actuating the grip safety unblocks the firing pin. This does not impact the trigger pull, but it does mean the gun can go off is someone whacks the muzzle of your 1911 with a baseball bat while you hold it with your finger outside the trigger guard. This safety, known as the Schwartz safety, was introduced in 1937 and only in production for a short period of time thereafter (until it was resurrected by Kimber and S&W). See US patent 2169084.

The MA compliant roster does not require any particular mechanical design, but does require that the firing mechanism not ignite primed cases when dropped onto concrete from a one meter height. There are some 1911s that have passed this test without a firing pin block safety.

Also, the "target list" does not require any such drop test.

Whoa, very informative. +1