Effective concealed carry ammo caliber

[Jose]

Mitch, you need to reduce the number of tight fitting garments you wear, get over the fear that you will be made, or both.

I carried a S&W Model 29 all day today. Went to an IDPA match, then drove/walked all over town doing errands with it. Just a fleece vest over my shirt is all it took to hide a .44 Magnum.

When I have to be ultra discreet, a S&W 637 (J frame revolver .38 Special) or S&W M&P9c in tuckable holsters or in my pocket (revolver) get the nod.

Trust me on this, I am not a big guy and NO ONE can tell I am toting a .44 Magnum around. No one.

 

[Will Brink]

I have an assortment from 22, 22 magnum, 25 auto, 380 acp on up in carry options. Obveously the larger calibers 45, 9mm, 38 and 357 are effective.

The question is when you have to carry small is a mini mag with a 1/2" barrel that is very inaccurate over ten feet better than a 25 caliber colt junior.

Is a Beretta 22 better or worse than a 25. This is all not counting special ammo that can jam an auto.

The 380 will beat them all but gets to big for general conceal carry.

A .380 is too big for concealed carry??!! I carry a commander or government 1911 every day without issue .380 would be considered absolute minimum for SD, and considering how small many 9mm gun are these days, there's really no reason for the .380. .38 snub revolver is also very easy to conceal and may actually get the BGs attention...maybe....A .22 for SD? Might as well throw rocks.

 

[Will Brink]

I am generally not in a situation requiring me to carry, my day job makes it difficult to carry anything large with good comfort and concealability. I was trying to decide between several of the pocket guns I have been given which would be better than the other. I have large callable guns but they are just a pain for daily carry. Even the 380 colt mustang gets tiring.


I like the Beretta 22since it is double action and you can remove the round by flipping up the barrel.

The Mini mag 22 seems to have some punch but you cannot hit a target that is over ten feet away. The best thing about it is you have five mag shot from a gun smaller than a credit card.

In short I am trying to pick out the best of the worst

The best of the worst would be that Mustang or a .38 snub. Consider selling/trading the mustang for a 9mm Kahr or other sub compact 9mm.

You have to do the best you can for comfort, but at the end of the day, no gun is always more comfortable. Guns are not supposed to be comfortable per se, but comforting. Two, there is no gun too small and too light when you have to lug it around all day, and there is no gun too big and too heavy when you need one to defend your life. Thus, you have to strike a balance between comfort and effectiveness, and NO handgun caliber in the standard "duty" calibers are remotely as people believe them to be for stopping people as an immediate threat.

 

[Blitz1]

My EDC set-up.

Comp-tac Minotaur MTAC Holster and Sig 229 .40

Conceals very well and is comfortable.

 

[Cuz]

The only thing smaller than a J-Frame lightweight 38 spcl I'd carry is my Seecamp .32acp. While the Seecamp will fit better in a pocket because it's flatter, it actually weighs more than my J-Frame. Seecamp weighs 12 oz unloaded while the J-Frame weighs 10.5 oz empty.

-Cuz.

 

[depicts]

While I like my J frames in my pocket, I feel pretty comfortable with my Colt Mustang on occasion with silver tips or a mag full of Ball ammo if winter coats are involved.

Of course when it's winter coat time, I can carry a full size 1911, and I'm small.

 

[Jose]

I would go no smaller than one of the subcompact 9x19 Kahrs or a S&W J frame. The .38 Special +P, when placed where it needs to go, will not let you down. If you do decide on a .38 Special snub, do not go any lighter than Speer's 135 grain Gold Dot.

Here's my set up when I carry a snub (S&W Model 637), which is not often these days. Ammo of choice is Buffalo Bore's outstanding 158 grain lead semi wadcutter hollow point .38 Special +P. 1000 fps out of a 2" barrel, it hits almost like a .357 Magnum. For the real deal, step up to a S&W Model 60. It is a little heavier at 20 ounces, but you can rip some serious .357 Magnum pain on your opponent without destroying your wrist.

 

[MagnumAl]

I will echo- I carry a Model 36 j frame, very light. I did until recently carry a PPK in my briefcase. They make an awesome portfolio holster for it, even has a little lock built in, mine was Galco I think. Urban office camo. Hmm, I might just have to buy a G26 to fit that holster, come to think of it...

380 is as low as I would ever go. Ankle holsters are great for comfort, if not for access.

 

[vellnueve]

I am generally not in a situation requiring me to carry, my day job makes it difficult to carry anything large with good comfort and concealability. I was trying to decide between several of the pocket guns I have been given which would be better than the other. I have large callable guns but they are just a pain for daily carry. Even the 380 colt mustang gets tiring.


I like the Beretta 22since it is double action and you can remove the round by flipping up the barrel.

The Mini mag 22 seems to have some punch but you cannot hit a target that is over ten feet away. The best thing about it is you have five mag shot from a gun smaller than a credit card.

In short I am trying to pick out the best of the worst

Get a J-Frame revolver. It's as small as most of the autos you're taking about, but much more powerful.

 

[Billsail]

I carry a S&W Airweight Jframe 642CT, in a Mika round cut holster, in my front pants pocket. It is worn all day, every day, and I honestly forget that it's there. I feed it with Speer +P 135 gr. Gold Dot hollowpoints. That is the largest and heaviest gun I choose to carry. Remember, If you're carrying something that you're not comfortable with, chances are you'll stop carrying, and what good is that?

http://www.frontiernet.net/~akim/

Bill

 

[maee]

I'd only carry a .25 if I knew that I was going to be in a place where there were no rocks that I could pick up and throw at the bad guy.

Oh no, not another CCW caliber flame war. What basis do people make these accusations on? Or maybe Bobkatt used to be a pitcher for the Red Sox.

 

[Will Brink]

Oh no, not another CCW caliber flame war. What basis do people make these accusations on?.

Via the opinions of the actual experts in the field of terminal ballistics (e.g, Dr Roberts et al), the opinions of people who have actually shot people (of which I know a few), the opinions of those who know far more about the topic than you and I will ever know, such as a Larry Vickers et al. None would ever recommend anything below a 9mm for SD, with .380 considered "better then nothing."

There's really no such thing as a CCW caliber flame war. What there is are those who have actually researched the topic, and those who have not. Those who have, listen to those who are in the business of said research, and those who have not, recommend calibers like the .25 and such for SD minus anything to support that position.

A solid place to start is the Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness from the FBI. Though dated, I have it on very good authority the information is still accurate:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm

Me, I will take my advice from say a Dr Roberts or a Larry Vickers than someone who has decided on their own mouse gun calibers are a good choice for CCW/SD.

 

[Mitch]

Via the opinions of the actual experts in the field of terminal ballistics (e.g, Dr Roberts et al), the opinions of people who have actually shot people (of which I know a few), the opinions of those who know far more about the topic than you and I will ever know, such as a Larry Vickers et al. None would ever recommend anything below a 9mm for SD, with .380 considered "better then nothing."

There's really no such thing as a CCW caliber flame war. What there is are those who have actually researched the topic, and those who have not. Those who have, listen to those who are in the business of said research, and those who have not, recommend calibers like the .25 and such for SD minus anything to support that position.

A solid place to start is the Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness from the FBI. Though dated, I have it on very good authority the information is still accurate:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm

Me, I will take my advice from say a Dr Roberts or a Larry Vickers than someone who has decided on their own mouse gun calibers are a good choice for CCW/SD.

Will I read the 19 page document that the only conclusion I could find is bigger is always better. However smaller is not totally ruled out. I have seen police video of barricaded suspects coming out at police firing. The police shot back at relatively close range hitting the person multiple times and not dropping him. After Munich (sp) the Israeli's used 22 Berettas to eliminate the terrorists they could find with simple shots to the head at close range. Short of a Mossberg 12 gage pump with alternating slugs and buck I do not think any handgun is a definite knock down.

Can you put your last point in english to me on the .25 cal as being recomended or a total joke.

 

[Jose]

Short of a Mossberg 12 gage pump with alternating slugs and buck I do not think any handgun is a definite knock down.

You're right. But the undisputed king of handgun fight stopping ability is the .357 Magnum. Nothing else comes close, particularly when the bullet weights 125 grains and it is moving at close to 1500 fps. Not even the .45ACP.

 

[Will Brink]

Will I read the 19 page document that the only conclusion I could find is bigger is always better.

Bingo. The Big Hole Theory of terminal ballistics, which is generally considered the correct theory in research circles, favors larger slower projectiles which can reach terminal depth, thus letting the most blood out and the most air in. *

Of course, size of the projectile has to be balanced off with other variables, recoil, size of gun, etc, etc or we would all carry S&W 500 mags.

And as we know even the more effective handgun rnds are not particularly good man stoppers, using anything less is not recommended by those in the business of researching such things, be it in the field (Vicker et al) or in the lab (Roberts et al).

By all accounts, from those who have forgotten more on this topic than either of us will ever know, 9mm is the minimum rnd for SD. Dispatching BGs with .22 to the head, is not SD, it's a totally different animal and of no value to the issue at hand. As I said, personally, I'm going to take my advice from those who know this topic and call it a day, vs. stepping far out of my lane and go against said advice with "a .25 is fine"

Dr Roberts has some excellent info on terminal ballistics and such on the TF forums. He states:

"As you increase bullet size and mass from 9 mm/357 Sig, to .40 S&W, to .45 ACP, more tissue is crushed, resulting in a larger permanent cavity. In addition, the larger bullets often offer better performance through intermediate barriers. For some, the incremental advantages of the larger calibers are offset by weapon platform characteristics. As is quite obvious from the photo above, NONE of the common service pistol calibers generate temporary cavities of sufficient magnitude to cause significant tissue damage" He then goes onto recommend the FBI doc. I posted prior.

This thread is good:

http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000964

* = related to handgun rnds.

 

[In_God_We_Trust]

I have to say, in all of this... Is not a well placed shot in the brainpan with a caliber you can handle the point? I believe that being able to control what you carry and have the ability to group shots is the point in which you should consider carrying a gun, rather than the size of the caliber at the expense of accuracy...

Just my .02

 

[jcr]

Last week a Pizza Delivery guy sent two attackers away, one wounded, with what was reported as a .22LR derringer.

I'll bet rocks wouldn't have worked.

 

[MagnumAl]

I would carry a knife if a 380 was too much recoil for me. BTW I just traded off my 380 today, so my 'smallest' self defense round is a 9mm, a round I am very comfortable with.

 

[Mikey]

Last week a Pizza Delivery guy sent two attackers away, one wounded, with what was reported as a .22LR derringer.

I'll bet rocks wouldn't have worked.

The NRA reports that everyday just the sight of a gun stops many crimes but that does not mean we should carry fake guns b/c there is a chance it will scare the bad guy away. Besides it is the ones who are not scared away that you have to worry about. Good luck stopping a charging 200 pound fearless criminal with a .22lr.

Just look at your own text, "sent two attackers away, one wounded...", if that wounded guy was able to run away then he was able to keep attacking as well.

 

[BR636]

Get a J frame and stick it in your pocket or a smart carry. I spend most of my time in the office but when I am on the shop floor I am always moving around a lot and the smart carry holster leaves me completely concealed and comfortable. Other holsters have always given me trouble when it came to things like reaching, bending, lifting and what not.

Look into the smart carry it is great for times when carry is tough to do.

+1 for the smart carry. I carry my para warthog in it and it is the most comfortable holster I have tried.

Also have you looked into a kel-tec p3at? Small cheap reliable 380. There hard to find in MA but if you look you'll find one

 

[45collector]

In the past 5 months I'v shelved my .380's in favor of carrying a Makarov 9x18. The power of that cartridge is right between .380 and 9x19. It's true that you can get a pistol in 9x19 that's pretty much the same size as a Mak, but I've been practicing with this gun and it's one of the most reliable and comfortable carry guns I've shot. Accuracy is good, it being a straight blow-back design. The trigger is much more smooth and crisp than most 9x19's I've shot, and upgrading the sights from those crappy stock combat ones helps get on target quickly.

So for me, it's an acceptable SD caliber in a simple, comfortable, reliable design.

 

[ryan81986]

I can conceal my beretta 92FS just fine, even in light clothing. It all depends on the holster and how you wear it. Normally though its just my walther PPK because its a little easier.

 

[Xak]

I've been leery about the .380 round but when I checked out, and finally bought, a Colt Government .380 for deep concealment/hot weather carry to replace my .38 snubby I was glad I did.

The round (.380) has more bite and bark than I expected, and is by far the fastest gun I can shoot with acceptable accuracy. I can fill a standard sized target with 8 holes before I can get 4 rounds off with my snubby, 1 or 2 of which may not even hit the target at that speed.

At 3/4" thick and with 7+1 at that speed with faster reloading over just 5 rounds in the snubby it's a no-brainer for me.

In fall I don't carry anything less than a 9mm. .45 for the winter.

 

[Mitch]

Govvernment

I've been leery about the .380 round but when I checked out, and finally bought, a Colt Government .380 for deep concealment/hot weather carry to replace my .38 snubby I was glad I did.

The round (.380) has more bite and bark than I expected, and is by far the fastest gun I can shoot with acceptable accuracy. I can fill a standard sized target with 8 holes before I can get 4 rounds off with my snubby, 1 or 2 of which may not even hit the target at that speed.

At 3/4" thick and with 7+1 at that speed with faster reloading over just 5 rounds in the snubby it's a no-brainer for me.

In fall I don't carry anything less than a 9mm. .45 for the winter.

I have both a government and mustang both are single action, how and where do you carry also see my thread on DA vs SA