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First Aid in armed conflicts and other situations of violence
- Thread starter Adam_MA
- Start date
Many folks leave out blood control in their kits - believeing that a big pressure pad will fill the bill. There's a great article on combat first aid in SGN, (I'll dig up the date - it was the one with the SOCOM on the cover). I'll also post pics of my first aid and owie kit when I get my digital camera back from my buddy....
Glenn and I have always had more than just a basic first aid kit. We also carry sutures. We realized early on the places the we wheeled and the intensity of it if something serious happened to someone we would have to carry them out aways and also they would have to be life flighted. We prepared for the worst, and have never had to use any of it. We have it if we need it though.
Exactly - I ride ATV's out here nearly every weekend and am amazed by how few carry a first aid kit and how inadequate the kits are when people do.
Garys
NES Member
Since I don't know you other than through here, I have to ask if you know how to do suturing.
Gary
Glenn does.![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Garys
NES Member
Glenn does.
I figured one of you had some medical experience and if my memory isn't too rusty Glenn is active duty Army, so I'm guessing he does something medical.
Anyway, the book isn't all that good IMHO. Beside from the "how to be a human shield" stuff, some of the medical information is way outdated. At least by US standards. Put a burned hand or foot in a plastic bag? I'd think not. Same with paraffin dressings for burns. They also don't mention tourniquets, but they also might be assuming that it's going to be a long, long time before the patient sees definitive care.
Gary
I have to agree with Gary: I think most of the people in this group would be better served taking some sort of "ditch medicine" course. Also putting together a medical kit that fits your needs, AND knowing how to use everything in the kit. Putting together a kit that has everything in the cool guy gear catalog, just in case the world ends is not going to help if the kit is so big that it stays in the car, while you are in the woods.
Nah, Glenn isn't active Army now. Son is Guard and just came back from Iraq, which is what I think you are thinking of. Glenn and I have both been out of the military a long time now. We both are EMT trained.
Believe it or not what I learned from the military to do as far as first aid, was better than my EMT course. Basically you can do more in the military as far as first aid than what you can do as far as a civilian EMT-B.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
True. We thankfully in all the years we were wheeling never needed the stuff,but we also figured it was better to have it and not need it than to not have it and need it. The most we ever had to deal with was a few bee stings.
Garys
NES Member
I get confused easily. <G>
Believe it or not what I learned from the military to do as far as first aid, was better than my EMT course. Basically you can do more in the military as far as first aid than what you can do as far as a civilian EMT-B.
Military medics work under different circumstances than civilian EMTs, although I'm given to understand that military medics now have to take the EMT course. Since military medics are often much further from definitive care, it makes sense for them to have a broader scope of practice. Much as EMTs and medics who work in more austere or remote conditions do.
Gary
Alan learned to do IV's before they hit Iraq. Basic EMT's don't do that.The military just for general principal has you do more than a Basic EMT. Trust me I was told quite a few times I couldn't do certain things when I took my EMT class.![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
Garys
NES Member
Alan learned to do IV's before they hit Iraq. Basic EMT's don't do that.The military just for general principal has you do more than a Basic EMT. Trust me I was told quite a few times I couldn't do certain things when I took my EMT class.
That's more liability than anything else. Which isn't a concern for the military.
Gary
Yeah I know, which is why I was told I couldn't do alot of things in my EMT class.
I came accross a group of 5 people from Connecticut ATV-ing in Beartown. One guy was "dancing around" clutching his hand - blood pouring out. One of his friends was laughing, the others were scrambling for napkins or anything else they could find. While fixing the balljoint on his ATV, he had cut his thumb at the web so deeply, that it almost looked disconnected. No one and I mean no one had a single piece of first aid gear. They had plenty of food, gas, beer and cigarettes - thousands in ATV equipment, but not a single first aid kit. After I patched him up to the "ooohs and ahhhs" of his friends, I then had to direct them out of the woods - as no one had a trail map.
I think it's all about balance really. Something is better than nothing, but not enough will do you no good. You can pack a basic owie kit that will treat, or at least stabilize most injuries. I built kits for my friends as gifts, then show them how to use them. Started off with Sawyer first aid kits from Wally World, ($9.99) and added to them, (pressure bandages, Neosporin, needle and thread, emergency blankets, food bar etc...) Kind of like a mini survival kit. It's cheap insurance, but useless if it's under the seat of the car, or in a drawer, (unless that's where you get injured)...
I think it's all about balance really. Something is better than nothing, but not enough will do you no good. You can pack a basic owie kit that will treat, or at least stabilize most injuries. I built kits for my friends as gifts, then show them how to use them. Started off with Sawyer first aid kits from Wally World, ($9.99) and added to them, (pressure bandages, Neosporin, needle and thread, emergency blankets, food bar etc...) Kind of like a mini survival kit. It's cheap insurance, but useless if it's under the seat of the car, or in a drawer, (unless that's where you get injured)...
The Military has almost everyone trained as Combat Lifesavers. I took the course about 10 years ago and it was a 40 hour course and has to be refreshed every 2 years or so. In Iraq this course has saved countless extra lives above what the Medic would have been able to save.
The other reason why the military is able to do more than an EMT is for two reasons, the G.I. in combat will see more body parts and blood in a sinlge battle this eliminates the gag factor and allows the G.I. to be able to accomplish feats needed to be a good Life Saver. Lawsuits within the military are about as rare as a 3 dollar bill.
The other reason why the military is able to do more than an EMT is for two reasons, the G.I. in combat will see more body parts and blood in a sinlge battle this eliminates the gag factor and allows the G.I. to be able to accomplish feats needed to be a good Life Saver. Lawsuits within the military are about as rare as a 3 dollar bill.
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Wilderness EMT/First Responder
Hey Guys!
I was a Wilderness EMT for eight years and worked extensively in the search and rescue community specializing in high angle rescue. I have since let my EMT expire and have "dropped" to a Wilderness First Responder.
I am the director of a wilderness counseling program (like outward bound for high risk youth).
I am also an instructor for the following:
Basic Wilderness First Aid (9hr course)
Advanced Wilderness First Aid (16hr course)
Wilderness First Responder/DOT (80hr course)
These courses focus heavily on improvised medicine outside of the "golden hour" of definitive care.
I would be happy to run the first two courses for NES members below cost.
The courses are certified by ASHI and use the same course materiels as SOLO and WMI.
If you have any questions you can PM me.
I am teaching a course on April 7th for my staff in Hopkinton. The books have been ordered, but if one or two want to jump in I can squeeze you in and get the book after.
In any event it's a good course if you spend alot of time in the backcountry.
Be safe out there!
Joe
Hey Guys!
I was a Wilderness EMT for eight years and worked extensively in the search and rescue community specializing in high angle rescue. I have since let my EMT expire and have "dropped" to a Wilderness First Responder.
I am the director of a wilderness counseling program (like outward bound for high risk youth).
I am also an instructor for the following:
Basic Wilderness First Aid (9hr course)
Advanced Wilderness First Aid (16hr course)
Wilderness First Responder/DOT (80hr course)
These courses focus heavily on improvised medicine outside of the "golden hour" of definitive care.
I would be happy to run the first two courses for NES members below cost.
The courses are certified by ASHI and use the same course materiels as SOLO and WMI.
If you have any questions you can PM me.
I am teaching a course on April 7th for my staff in Hopkinton. The books have been ordered, but if one or two want to jump in I can squeeze you in and get the book after.
In any event it's a good course if you spend alot of time in the backcountry.
Be safe out there!
Joe
Wasn't there some problems with the blood clotting pacs available all over a while back? I seem to remember reading something about that.
Our club offered a first aid course geared towards gunshot wounds free of charge last year. I thought it was a great idea. Hopefully it can be repeated as I was unavailable for the first one.
Our club offered a first aid course geared towards gunshot wounds free of charge last year. I thought it was a great idea. Hopefully it can be repeated as I was unavailable for the first one.
That is a good idea, If your club offers a class like this take it. I believe all the trainers out there who offer a defensive handgun type class, should consider adding a block of instruction on the treatment of gunshot wounds.
As a Tactical Medic, one of my primary functions is to instruct my fellow team members on how to care for themselves and their partners until either they can reach me, or I can get to them.
J
Jose
Sometimes it is best to let Darwin's theory run its course.
I took the combat lifesaver course when I was in. Being in a LRSD we didn't have medics, so we carried our own first aid kits with IV's. During our time in Op Desert Shield/Storm we were issued morphine(The single dose kind). We actually had the Division Surgeon train us on using the morphine and some other advanced stuff that was not covered in the combat lifesaver course.
Now they teach everyone going over to do IV's and such. Alan also learned a bit more from their medics also.
JimConway
Instructor
Ditch medicine
I am pleased to see so much discussion focused around the types of things that can happen on a shooting range. All of the staff now have the V.O.K. kits from tacticalresponsegear.com We also started our ongoing training program with a local doctor. This training covers gun shot wounds and other areas that we are likely to face until the EMTs arrive . We are investigating offering a course next year taught by a combat medic with recent experience in the sand box. In this case we are going to have the course primarily for ourselves and may offer some of the seats to the public, if there is any interest
I am pleased to see so much discussion focused around the types of things that can happen on a shooting range. All of the staff now have the V.O.K. kits from tacticalresponsegear.com We also started our ongoing training program with a local doctor. This training covers gun shot wounds and other areas that we are likely to face until the EMTs arrive . We are investigating offering a course next year taught by a combat medic with recent experience in the sand box. In this case we are going to have the course primarily for ourselves and may offer some of the seats to the public, if there is any interest
Yeah, they're very basic kits available at Wally World, but the cases are decent and have room to expand. I add the rest of the stuff, though I do not add suture kits - just pressure bandages and butterfly kits. I keep the suture kits/QuickClot in my own.
One of the problems I used to have taking first aid refresher courses was butting heads with instructors who insisted on telling me that I couldn't do certain things. The problem arose because I knew perfectly well that I could do them, and probably had done them more times than the instructor had put on a band aid. Then I got it through my head that the instructors weren't really challenging my competency, but simply didn't use proper English. What they actually meant was that I wasn't permitted to do those things in my current environment. OK, I've got no problem with them telling me that. It's always nice to know just where the trip wires are set.
Ken
Ken
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