First Center Fire Pistol... Which one?

[JPO]

Scrivener,

Your advice is sound and a revolver is a classic design that will never be made obsolete. There are no autos that can digest the range of ammo a 357 can. I could shoot on the cheep with .38 ball, and wouldn't have to worry about feeding problems either. And, a .357 JHP is a proven defensive round.

I do read the posts and have gotten a lot of ideas on what I should at the very least do more investigation on for a possible purchase. I do have my mind set on a semi auto however, but appriciate the feedback and advice, Thank you.

 

[BOBKATT]

Scrivener,

Your advice is sound and a revolver is a classic design that will never be made obsolete. There are no autos that can digest the range of ammo a 357 can. I could shoot on the cheep with .38 ball, and wouldn't have to worry about feeding problems either. And, a .357 JHP is a proven defensive round.

I do read the posts and have gotten a lot of ideas on what I should at the very least do more investigation on for a possible purchase. I do have my mind set on a semi auto however, but appriciate the feedback and advice, Thank you.

Why shoot .38's out of a .357? You end up leading it up, and losing accuracy(In theory). There is no reason to do this. You can reload .357s for the same price, same DEWC 148gr. head, brass isn't that much more, and I've found that S&W revolvers take just about the same powder charge as well. Shoot .357's out of a .357 and .38's out of a .38. Unless of course you don't reload, then do whatever you want. But you'll pay for it in ammo the price of a press in one summer.

 

[Scrivener]

I do read the posts and have gotten a lot of ideas on what I should at the very least do more investigation on for a possible purchase. I do have my mind set on a semi auto however, but appriciate the feedback and advice, Thank you.

Let us know what you get and enjoy shooting it.

 

[JPO]

Compromising?

Don't compromise, get a 1911 government.

I am now officially shopping seriously
I have been thinking about my real needs and, you're right about the 1911, but... I still want to save some cash on ammo. The best compromize I found was today at NET.

It is a 16-40 Limited all black steel framed gun. It is $125 less than the Stainless "Sterling" version.

 

[PistolPete]

I am now officially shopping seriously
I have been thinking about my real needs and, you're right about the 1911, but... I still want to save some cash on ammo. The best compromize I found was today at NET.

It is a 16-40 Limited all black steel framed gun. It is $125 less than the Stainless "Sterling" version.

SWEET!!!! Did you pick it up yet? What does it have for sights? Does it have adjustable rears? You'll like the 16.40 and it's a great gun to get into USPSA shooting.

Pete

 

[Scrivener]

Limiteds were always characterized by target sights, a supposedly more accurate barrel bushing and, IIRC, an ambi safety.

You'd think I'd remember after owning 3 of them....

 

[JPO]

It has the adjustable rear but the front is not fiber optic. Ambi safety, hard rubber grips, skeletonized trigger and hammer, (they appear to be MIM), Front of slide is serrated and the front of the grip has vertical grooves. It is all black with a carbon steel slide and frame. I believe I was told it is a leftover from last year bur I can't find it in any catalog, or on line.

The second option is the 16-40 Limited with the "Sterling" finish seen here:

http://www.paraord.com/new/product_pistol_large.php?id=12

The problem with this one is availablity. I went to First Defence and NET and neither one could find one.

Arggggh!

 

[Scrivener]

Fiber optic was not part of the Limited package that I recall; the slide cuts were.

Get the Dawson FO front sight; I've put them on all 3 of my Para's and two of my SVI's. Very long rod means very bright dot!

 

[JPO]

Good advice... I need losts of that stuff.

I have been reading a lot of posts recommending Smith & Wesson 1911s, but they are all single stack .45 models. Specifically the DK version. Am I missing something important by getting a .40 over a .45. A Para vs. a S&W?

 

[Scrivener]

Good advice... I need losts of that stuff.

I have been reading a lot of posts recommending Smith & Wesson 1911s, but they are all single stack .45 models. Specifically the DK version. Am I missing something important by getting a .40 over a .45. A Para vs. a S&W?

Not if you want a double-stack!

 

[PistolPete]

A double stack 1911 rules the USPSA game hands down. STI and SVI for the most part own the market. Having the Para will allow you to shoot in many different divisions which is a good thing. There are a few mods you can do to that gun and you'll have a gun that can run with the big boys. The Limited gun is DEFINITELY the way to go for a competition gun. If you get a gun that is blued you can always have it hard chromed down the road.

Pete

 

[TonyDedo]

Did you even READ my post?

IF so, name one semi, in any centerfire caliber, that can do all those things that a .357 revolver can.

I'm with Scrivener on this one. I wanted my first pistol to be a jack-of-all trades, and my S&W 686 was right on the money. I started off in the range shooting .38sp in single action mode to develop good habits, then worked my way up to shooting .357 in double action (which is how it's loaded for home defense).

I also like that it was simple, which made cleaning and maintaining my first gun much easier. It's still really nice to have, especially when I take new shooters to the range. It's definitely the one gun I will never sell.

However, if you want a semi auto and if ammo costs weren't such a concern, I'd say go straight for the 1911.

Why shoot .38's out of a .357? You end up leading it up, and losing accuracy(In theory). There is no reason to do this. You can reload .357s for the same price, same DEWC 148gr. head, brass isn't that much more, and I've found that S&W revolvers take just about the same powder charge as well. Shoot .357's out of a .357 and .38's out of a .38. Unless of course you don't reload, then do whatever you want. But you'll pay for it in ammo the price of a press in one summer.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that makes no sense to me what so ever. If you're firing a pistol correctly, there is no reason your accuracy should suffer when you change to a more powerful round. If you're doing anything that could be described as 'leading,' it's because you're anticipating the recoil and flinching - all the more reason to work with a round with less recoil.

It doesn't sound like JPO is reloading or considering reloading, but if he is than there's no reason he shouldn't go straight to a .45ACP. The differences in reloading costs for centerfire cartridges are negligible, plus you get more shots out of .45ACP brass than .40 or 9mm.

 

[TY43215]

I would like to purchase a center fire pistol which will have to serve as a jack of all trades… i.e. CCW, Bulls eye, and home defense. I am joining a new club and would like to start action shooting, so my choice of gun has to perform a number of tasks.

I also live in Ma. and have further limitations placed on me by the AG. I would like to have a gun chambered for .40 S&W because it is a compromise between the cost of ammo, its power, and its placement in USPSA and other action shooting sports. I am over 40 and have been a machinist and quality manager for my adult life, so I don’t like plastic guns. I would also like a light rail for a tactical light if possible. I have been shopping and haven’t had a lot of luck. I am a big guy with big hands so full size is just fine.

I am looking at the Para 1640 although it doesn’t have a light rail. The Sig P226 although it is aluminum and I am not sure of its wear characteristics. Any other ideas?

I have read the entire thread and will give you this advice. Make your wants a little more realistic. You have gotten some OK advice so far but your idea of having

pistol which will have to serve as a jack of all trades… i.e. CCW, Bulls eye, and home defense.

is totally unrealistic if you are looking at the 40 S&W cartridge. You will be disappointed in one way or another.

The Para is a fine firearm except they have had a lot of issues lately with feeding. The Sig is a fine pistol (I carry a 226) but it has disadvantages with the SA/DA.

Both of the above are NOT Bulls eye guns. I won't even get into revolvers as a recommendation because you stated you were looking for a pistol.

For what you are looking to do, you will have to compromise somewhere. Decide what you really want to do and then decide what you need to do it.

One more thing, as for revolvers not being for the action sports, the only USPSA Grand Master in the North East just happens to be a Revolver shooter. Who'd a thunk

 

[JPO]

Jack of all trades?

Tons 'O' Good advice.
I will have to do some soul searching this week, I may have to buy two guns (or four) to fill all my "Needs" list. A jack of all trades would just be too much of a compromise.

When I had my LTC years ago, I had a restriction for hunting and target shooting. When I applied for it this time I didn't think of getting the unrestricted version. I have never carried, or had a bedside gun. The Original plan was to get a range mule, and now I find that the scope of my project has expanded. This is now how I see the real usage of my first purchase.

I own a MKII, a 10-22 carbine, and a Mossburg 1944@. All of these have short travel, light pull, crisp triggers. Dry firing several DA models the triggers felt very strange with a long reset. I didn't feel comfortable with these. Something I will have to learn and master, but not on my first centerfire. Make sense?

I am not a reloader, and don't have any short term intentions to start.

I like making things, tinkering, and improving. I rebuilt my Moss 1944, and tricked out the MKII. The MKII had major feeding problems out of the box. I had to polish the feed ramp and slide face. I tuned the lips of the mag and polished those as well. Sorry, getting off subject...

80% range use - Bulls Eye and Action - By this I mean having fun punching holes in paper. I am sure anything with a sub 2" group and 25 yards is way past my abilities.

15% in a DAC safe for home protection - I hope it sleeps as well as I, and never gets taken out!

5% Carried when I am going to feel the need. - I don't own a business or place myself in precarious situations. My wife and I are getting older, and I never want to think I can't protect her.

This kind of changes the entire post around, and I am very grateful for the support of the members here for helping me through this decision. As you can see from this post I am leaning way back over to the original plan of getting my range mule. I can always buy more as I "Need" them.

Thank you!

 

[TY43215]

Now that things have change

I would suggest you try a 1911 pattern in 9MM. Ammo is cheaper, there are some out there that are accurate enough for bulls eye, and they are usable in the action sports except for ICORE.

For USPSA, you will be scored minor caliber but you can learn to deal with that with accuracy. For IDPA, it will work. For Bulls Eye, it will work. For Steel Challenge it will work. With proper ammunition, it will be OK for personal defense.

I would suggest a S&W 952. pricey, but a real nice Singlestack. If you are looking for a double stack, the Para P18 fills that bill.

When and if you decide to reload, switch to a 40S&W or a 45ACP and maintain same grip style and trigger pull.

For the self defense part, buy a used S&W J frame revolver.

Good luck,

 

[LT1MCSS]

Sounds like a Sig 229R in 9mm would suite you needs just fine.

I am looking to get one myself actually. It wouldn't be a primary carry weapon for me though seeing how i have a G27 and Mustang Pocketlite.

 

[JPO]

I made up my mind and purchased the Para SX1640ER new in box on Tuesday. It is a .40 double stack made in 2006. It is all "covert" black with adjustable target sights. I had tried to find the stainless limited and First Defense, FS, Northeast , and even through Para, but everyone showed out of stock. The unit I have is great.

I took it to HSA to see if I might be able to shoot it after qualifying. I brought my MKII to use in qualifying on the indoor range. I was encouraged to use the Para (thanks Bob), and was invited to join in with the Wednesday night group. They were nice enough to let me shoot with them through 3 courses of fire. I want to thank them for letting me shoot, and for all their help and advice. This is a great crew and made me feel welcome.

The gun worked without a single problem, and I wish the same could be said for me. My times through the stages could have been timed by sun dial. The sights on the gun were not set to 6 O’clock. During my qualifying at the indoor range I found they were hitting slightly right and below the horizontal plane of the rear sight. I will have to sight in before the next trip to the range.

Overall, Great crew at Hopkinton, Thanks again to Bob, Rob, and everyone else.

Many thanks to the folks here on the forum for your help and advice.

 

[PistolPete]

Congrats on the purchase and great choice... Now hopefully you're hooked on USPSA and all will be good.

Welcome,
Pete

 

[seanc]

I have to vote for the 1911.
as far as a do everything modular platform you can't beat a standard milspec 1911. you can do 45/ 22/ 38spr/ 9mm all by swapping slides so calber can be whatever you'd like.
Also, you can again have different uppers, a 45 carry upper, a 45 target upper etc.

I am assuming that you are not trying to make the same gun in the same config do everything.
IMO, that is kind of like asking which tool should I buy to do everything the hammer or the screw driver?

but, if that IS the question and I HAD to chose, I would still opt for a 1911 45 or possibly a 4" 357.

 

[Jose]

I don't have anything against revolvers, except when they spit lead back in my face.

If you have a revolver that does that, get it to a gunsmith because something is not right. I have fired thousands of hard cast lead bullets in training (mostly), IDPA, and USPSA and the only lead that ever hit my face came from steel target splatter.

 

[Jose]

Why shoot .38's out of a .357? You end up leading it up, and losing accuracy(In theory). .

You may be right in theory but not in practice. I clean all the chambers and bores of all my wheelguns after every use. I shoot 38 Special reloads in my 357 revolver because I also have a couple of 38 Special guns around. The accuracy loss is a myth.

Now if I had only .357 Magnum revolvers and no 38 Specials, I would buy a pile of .357 cases and down load them to 38 +P velocity for practice and training. That is what I am doing with my .44 Magnum.

 

[drgrant]

If you have a revolver that does that, get it to a gunsmith because something is not right. I have fired thousands of hard cast lead bullets in training (mostly), IDPA, and USPSA and the only lead that ever hit my face came from steel target splatter.

+1000... if a wheelie is spitting lead at you, the timing is off or something else is seriously wrong with the gun.

-Mike

 

[Jose]

Another possible cause of lead spitting is a cylinder yoke or crane bent, which causes an uneven (from side to side) barrel to cylinder gap.