Frame transfers?

wcjkd said:
What is the real story about frame transfers now? Yes / no ? Curious to know.
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You are not asking the question you think you are asking.

No dealer can transfer a firearm that is not on a roster. Rosters currently consist "approved handgun", "target" and "olympic". The secretary of EOPSS is also enabled under the new law to add/remove guns from the rosters at their own discretion with consultation from blah blah. Rosters take effect when published on the state website (per the law).

The secretary of EOPSS wrote a nice guidance letter saying that dealers could sell/transfer ALL long guns (rifles and shotguns) not otherwise prohibited by law. They then published this memo on the state website. This is a defacto roster for ALL rifles and shotguns. Since it was published BY the secretary of EOPSS who is authorized by the new law to add/remove stuff from rosters, it is in fact not arbitrary or extra-legal but actually consistent with the law (shocking, I know).

Now in the old days we could take an off roster gun and disassemble it (well, an 07 FFL could). We would then transfer the frame/receiver w/o concern of state law because frames/receivers were not regulated by MA.

The new law regulates frames and receivers and considers them firearms like all other guns. They are therefore subject to the roster.

So, can a dealer transfer a frame to you? Yes, IF it is on a roster. There are no frames or receivers on rosters but the frame of an on-roster handgun is in theory transferrable. That is an opinion held by a number of GOOD firearms attorneys here in MA.

So a frame transfer does not get you around the roster. A frame transfer can get you around 940 CMR 16. So some dealers will still frame glocks. They are on the roster but selling as complete handguns violates 940 CMR 16. Selling/transferring as a frame is not covered under 940 CMR 16 so is therefore legal and a work around to AG bullsht.

But guns not on the roster? No, the frame cannot be transferred.
 
not new guy said:
Why publicize it?
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Why not? It is either legal or it is not. The dealers doing it have taken the position that it is legal (and so have their attorneys). Everyone's buddy who got the new law effective 3 weeks early with his delusional petition has said publicly many times that frame transfers for glocks are legal (so it must be true).

Rosters do not effect LTC holders, just MA licensed dealers. So if you all want to discuss where you get your cool sht, do so.

Doing a glock frame transfer under the new law is not straight forward. I know many shops doing it "incorrectly", that is, they are not following all the elements of the new law. But that is not my or your problem.
 
CrackPot said:
You are not asking the question you think you are asking.

No dealer can transfer a firearm that is not on a roster. Rosters currently consist "approved handgun", "target" and "olympic". The secretary of EOPSS is also enabled under the new law to add/remove guns from the rosters at their own discretion with consultation from blah blah. Rosters take effect when published on the state website (per the law).

The secretary of EOPSS wrote a nice guidance letter saying that dealers could sell/transfer ALL long guns (rifles and shotguns) not otherwise prohibited by law. They then published this memo on the state website. This is a defacto roster for ALL rifles and shotguns. Since it was published BY the secretary of EOPSS who is authorized by the new law to add/remove stuff from rosters, it is in fact not arbitrary or extra-legal but actually consistent with the law (shocking, I know).

Now in the old days we could take an off roster gun and disassemble it (well, an 07 FFL could). We would then transfer the frame/receiver w/o concern of state law because frames/receivers were not regulated by MA.

The new law regulates frames and receivers and considers them firearms like all other guns. They are therefore subject to the roster.

So, can a dealer transfer a frame to you? Yes, IF it is on a roster. There are no frames or receivers on rosters but the frame of an on-roster handgun is in theory transferrable. That is an opinion held by a number of GOOD firearms attorneys here in MA.

So a frame transfer does not get you around the roster. A frame transfer can get you around 940 CMR 16. So some dealers will still frame glocks. They are on the roster but selling as complete handguns violates 940 CMR 16. Selling/transferring as a frame is not covered under 940 CMR 16 so is therefore legal and a work around to AG bullsht.

But guns not on the roster? No, the frame cannot be transferred.
Click to expand...

So there’s no real reason to use a frame transfer other than for Glocks?

What about free state versions of guns that are on the roster? Those can be transferred as complete handguns?
 
Varmint said:
So there’s no real reason to use a frame transfer other than for Glocks?

What about free state versions of guns that are on the roster? Those can be transferred as complete handguns?
Click to expand...
The free state's version would not be on the roster, making the frame non-transferable. That is, unless the frames are identical and it is just the upper components that make it "compliant," then maybe a "free state version" would be transferable? Anybody care to chime in?
 
linux said:
The free state's version would not be on the roster, making the frame non-transferable. That is, unless the frames are identical and it is just the upper components that make it "compliant," then maybe a "free state version" would be transferable? Anybody care to chime in?
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Think you’re right, take the P365 for example, I see only manual safety versions on the roster.
 
Varmint said:
Are you talking about buying a MS version and removing the safety and buying a new grip? Or ordering the non MS version?
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I'm not being specific. I'm talking dealers using the extents of the law to move what they want. Like if you devolve a P365 into an FCU, does the rest of the shit really matter? Not really.

Also "Substantially Similar" = eops compliant
 
CrackPot said:
Doing a glock frame transfer under the new law is not straight forward. I know many shops doing it "incorrectly", that is, they are not following all the elements of the new law. But that is not my or your problem.
Click to expand...
Gonna take a stab at this. Glocks are on roster So sold as frame on list per fed and new ma law. For 4473 Frames are firearms.

Glocks cant be transferred on FA-10 because of MA cmr bullshit. So frame is done. Because of way cmr is written.

Or there is no requirement to do FA 10 until new reg system is in place…so no FA 10. New owners can register as full guns when that takes place, and dealers arent involved.
 
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Varmint said:
So there’s no real reason to use a frame transfer other than for Glocks?
Click to expand...

…and anything else that is on a roster but would fail 940 CMR 16 (AG‘s regs)

I’m pretty sure Glocks are not the only example, but they the most high profile.
 
Varmint said:
So there’s no real reason to use a frame transfer other than for Glocks?

What about free state versions of guns that are on the roster? Those can be transferred as complete handguns?
Click to expand...
The reason for a frame transfer is to transfer a gun on the roster that the AG has deemed an unsafe consumer practice for a dealer to sell. This applies to glocks. If you can come up with another example, then we would transfer that way. I cannot think of such an example off the top of my head. Everything else goes out the door as complete guns.
 
Mark from ? said:
Gonna take a stab at this. Glocks are on roster So sold as frame on list per fed and new ma law. For 4473 Frames are firearms.

Glocks cant be transferred on FA-10 because of MA cmr bullshit. So frame is done. Because of way cmr is written.

Or there is no requirement to do FA 10 until new reg system is in place…so no FA 10. New owners can register as full guns when that takes place, and dealers arent involved.
Click to expand...
You are discussing the why more than the how. You would need to read and understand MGL 140 123 which are a dealer's obligations under their license. Then you might see the path for what is required to comply with the law. But I will not describe the implementation details.
 
Varmint said:
Think you’re right, take the P365 for example, I see only manual safety versions on the roster.
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At the end of the day there are ways to effect the transfer of any p365 or p320 model. Again, I will not go into details on the how as they are about ME and not about YOU. YOU can buy any non-assault style firearm a dealer will sell you. Dealer's are the ones limited by MGL 140 123 and 940CMR16. I can legally effect the transfers so...
 
CrackPot said:
The secretary of EOPSS is also enabled under the new law to add/remove guns from the rosters at their own discretion with consultation from blah blah.
Click to expand...
If I asked really nicely would the secretary of EOPSS add a CZ RAMI 2075 (decocker) to the roster?
 
G4Y4HK said:
Why do people in MA love Glocks so much? Maybe in the year 2005 it was the best but today there are far better striker options that Queen Maura has approved for civilian use. HK VP9 and VP9SK are far superior.
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A major driver, in the past, was that you could legally carry them with with pre-ban hi/standard cap mags, which were readily available.
 
G4Y4HK said:
Why do people in MA love Glocks so much? Maybe in the year 2005 it was the best but today there are far better striker options that Queen Maura has approved for civilian use. HK VP9 and VP9SK are far superior.
Click to expand...
If I didnt read your posts, this comment would tell me you don't know what you are talking about (I already knew that based on prior posts).

The way a gun fits someone's hand is a huge part of why people like Glocks.

When I grab a Glock, I naturally point. When I grab an HK, the sight is always slightly off to the left. I am not a huge fan of the HK grip. So if I can choose between a Glock or an HK, I choose the Glock.

Besides that, there is practically no difference between the guns. Please highlight some amazing new and improved technology the HK has over a Glock.
 

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