Fudd Rules Instituted At My Club

M1911 said:
Amen.

The other thing to realize is that when you present your opinions, you have to present them in a way that they can be heard. If you go into a meeting and say "that rule is bunch of BS created by a bunch of FUDD old farts, yadda, yadda, yadda," guess what? You just blew your chances of making a change.

Expect it to take time. Gain the confidence of the club leaders (formal and informal) before trying to tackle controversial changes.
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Not only is the WAY you present your idea important, but being willing to offer a solution and contribute your own time to make that solution work is MUCH more likely to gain approval than simply pointing out a problem.
 
Emoto said:
Not only is the WAY you present your idea important, but being willing to offer a solution and contribute your own time to make that solution work is MUCH more likely to gain approval than simply pointing out a problem.
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Absolutely. In my club when someone suggests something and the board agrees, the board's usual response is "Great idea. You're in charge."
 
xtry51 said:
This is really what you should do since apparently the only consequence to breaking rules is the creation of more rules you won't have to follow.
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Your statement is incorrect, memberships have been terminated for safety violations not related to the new rules. It is my belief the new rules are to protect the club and remain open. The club was closed for nine years because of rounds getting off club property.
 
M1911 said:
Absolutely. In my club when someone suggests something and the board agrees, the board's usual response is "Great idea. You're in charge."
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Funny that happens. Then they wash there hands of it and it's your (and like minded individuals) problem. Screw it your in charge! Crack skulls, geez until you enforce/make an example (ya know who they are, do not be afraid to profile) of the person or persons involved and show them there are rules and punishment for there actions they won't give a rats ass and continue to shoot the place up.
 
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At most clubs, the same 10 people do all the work. If you have some idea that you think is great but you are unwilling to run it, then why do you think that the BOD, which is already overworked, will stop doing something that they are already doing to take on the new task?
 
M1911 said:
At most clubs, the same 10 people do all the work. If you have some idea that you think is great but you are unwilling to run it, then why do you think that the BOD, which is already overworked, will stop doing something that they are already doing to take on the new task?
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That's the issue I would think at most clubs... I see the same 10-15 people out of 400 members working every club function and attending every monthly meeting. It's the apathetic members however, generally first in line to bitch and moan when a rule is implemented not to their liking. Many think: "Hey, screw it, I pay my dues" - thinking somehow that's enough. And I suppose to be fair, it is - even though at LSA, dues barely keep the lights on. However, I fall back to the: "If you don't vote - don't bitch" theme. Not much - including range safety rules, happen without a vote of the represented membership at monthly meetings. Somehow though - 10 out of 400 can magically find a whole hour out of their month to guide the club... Truthfully, as a club officer all to familiar with the nuances of running a club, I'd rather double the dues and cut 200 dead wood members adrift. Even then, the same 10 people...
 
I just wanted to acknowlege that as a result of this thread, the head of the range committee was kind enough to send me a respectful PM regarding the changes. As I eluded to previously, I don't doubt that the rules have the best intentions, but I disagree they're the right solutions for the problems faced.

However, I do very much appreciate the posts regarding how to change the atmosphere and rules with which you diagree--getting involved. In particularly, I'd like to thank MassMark for sharing his expieriences and his advice with regards to more progressive range rules and activities.

Please keep the posts coming.
 
I've looked around and decided to live with the Fudd rules at my club. Anything good is too far and anything nearby isn't an improvement.
 
M1911 said:
At most clubs, the same 10 people do all the work. If you have some idea that you think is great but you are unwilling to run it, then why do you think that the BOD, which is already overworked, will stop doing something that they are already doing to take on the new task?
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You mean a new task like allowing members to fill their magazines to capacity?
 
Rob Boudrie said:
You mean a new task like allowing members to fill their magazines to capacity?
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No, I mean a new task like "we should have a bow range." Our response has been:

Great idea. We can probably put one in over here. Come up with what you think it will take, along with a design for some sort of backstop, an estimate of the cost, and bring it to the BOD meeting. Our caretaker is a carpenter, so he can help you with the design and cost estimation. The club will fund it if the costs are reasonable. The usual bunch will show up to help with the work party(s) to create the range. But you've got to lead the effort.
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This has happened twice. Both times we never heard from the members again. If they aren't interested enough in the bow range to make it happen, then they probably aren't interested enough to really use it.

Yes, this is a bit different from the OP's situation.
 
MisterHappy said:
OK...the absolute best way to get the BoD, or Committee chair to do what you want is to yell, "Hey! You work for ME! I pay your non-salary!" while jabbing them in the chest with your finger.]
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yeah, that works! [rofl]
 
xtry51 said:
Yeah, but was it so bad you were missing the berm? The people causing the issue are missing 30ft tall, 50 yard wide hills.
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Heh. I'm reminded of my un-named employer, where all staff must qualify annually with the issue handgun, rifle, and shotgun (and those additionally qualified must also re-q with the SMG and other arms).

With the issued handgun and rifle (and even SMG), it's easy to count holes for qualification. With the 18" M870P, the standard is 5 of 5 hits (100%) at 15 yards in a timed drill (4 plus an emergency reload). No, they don't bother counting the holes.

Our range has very high berms, and it's old, so it's well lined with pine trees, 270 degrees from the firing line. Someone once asked how they could score the shotgun. The instructor's official response: "As long as we don't see pine cones flying off the trees, it counts as a hit."

Not two minutes later, a rather notorious employee stepped up and racked off her five rounds, and it was raining pine tree debris. Everyone stared at the instructor, who quietly shook his head, walked down range, and marked 5/5 on the pristine target.
 
M1911 said:
No, I mean a new task like "we should have a bow range." Our response has been:



This has happened twice. Both times we never heard from the members again. If they aren't interested enough in the bow range to make it happen, then they probably aren't interested enough to really use it.

Yes, this is a bit different from the OP's situation.
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Someone at our club suggested a bow range. I heard one vocal naysayer proclaim "We're a hunting club, not a target club."
 
Rob Boudrie said:
You mean a new task like allowing members to fill their magazines to capacity?
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Yes - even that. If a club passes a rule - it may very well be a knee-jerk reaction to a problem, (real or perceived). If the offended party brings forth a complaint, he or she may be 'tasked' with exploring an alternative. Many moons ago, we had a '2 round magazine capacity' rule. I've kept a sign for posterity. That rule is no longer in effect - why? Because a member I know found it silly and unreasonable. He took action - became involved instead of bitching about it. Guess what happened? Similarly, there were three beautiful outdoor pistol pits built. A rule was in effect that only non jacketed ammunition could be used on all three pits - except for a tiny 6-foot wide berm box. There was also no drawing from a holster as well. Those rules are no longer in effect - why? Because a member I know found it silly and unreasonable. He took action - became involved instead of bitching about it. Guess what happened?

www.berkshireidpa.us

That's what happened....
 
The same sequence that MassMark described happened at the Hopkinton club 15 or so years ago.

The "mag limit" and "speed shooting" rules went away when a few of us explained we competed in events where both skills were relevant. For a few years, both were by special permission only (I still have the board letter), but eventually those rules were replaced with requirements the shooting be done at a rate that keeps the rounds on target. Draw from holster is not allowed on the indoor range except at events, but is allowed on the outdoor pistol pits.

A couple of us then questioned the "1000fps lead only" rule on the indoor range and got permission to test (spraypainting the backstop, shooting it with 1400fps jacketed rounds and checking for dents). Once we presented the results of our test, that rule went away as well.

BUT, this was only possible because the board, including the two now-dead ancient guys, spoke in favor of our proposals. Fuddism, or lack thereof, knows no age.
 
I would just like to be able to shoot at some soda bottles or milk jugs with water. We have a paper targets only rule. However, they have a shed with spinning targets they brought out for the Women on Target thing, and other special uses. I think they don't want to leave them out because they are for .22 only.
 
MassMark said:
Yes - even that. If a club passes a rule - it may very well be a knee-jerk reaction to a problem, (real or perceived). If the offended party brings forth a complaint, he or she may be 'tasked' with exploring an alternative. Many moons ago, we had a '2 round magazine capacity' rule. I've kept a sign for posterity. That rule is no longer in effect - why? Because a member I know found it silly and unreasonable. He took action - became involved instead of bitching about it. Guess what happened? Similarly, there were three beautiful outdoor pistol pits built. A rule was in effect that only non jacketed ammunition could be used on all three pits - except for a tiny 6-foot wide berm box. There was also no drawing from a holster as well. Those rules are no longer in effect - why? Because a member I know found it silly and unreasonable. He took action - became involved instead of bitching about it. Guess what happened?

www.berkshireidpa.us

That's what happened....
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These are classic cases of "Take lemons and make lemonade." This is the best way to affect change.
 
MassMark said:
Unless the sarcasm meter is in play with that comment, you would simply be part of the problem and it would give me tremendous pleasure to throw you out of our club... [wink]
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I meant more of put 3 shots in it and hang it back up in your own home, gun closet etc for humor...
 
This morning seemed like complete impossibility a few short years ago...

21bb071e.jpg
 
KBCraig said:
Our range has very high berms, and it's old, so it's well lined with pine trees, 270 degrees from the firing line. Someone once asked how they could score the shotgun. The instructor's official response: "As long as we don't see pine cones flying off the trees, it counts as a hit."

Not two minutes later, a rather notorious employee stepped up and racked off her five rounds, and it was raining pine tree debris. Everyone stared at the instructor, who quietly shook his head, walked down range, and marked 5/5 on the pristine target.
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And you let him get away with that? You WORK with this scattershot, knowing that the safest place to stand when she's got a shotgun in her hands is in front of her? [shocked]
 
dwarven1 said:
And you let him get away with that? You WORK with this scattershot, knowing that the safest place to stand when she's got a shotgun in her hands is in front of her? [shocked]
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People well above my pay grade knew all about it.

And, she hydroplaned and hit a semi head-on the week she was scheduled to retire.
 

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