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Be sure to enter the NES/Pioneer Valley Arms February Giveaway ***Smith & Wesson SD9VE 9MM***
Glock 23 or Sig p229
- Thread starter ramair2k
- Start date
It's not relevant.
8 year old, unlicensed, boy, automatic, machine gun, banned weapon.
LTC holder, licensed, adult, semi-automatic, handgun, non-banned weapon.
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
To the OP, try both. Try to keep the variables constant. Try a P229 in 9mm and a Glock 19. Then try a P229 in .40 S&W and a Glock 23. I found my aim with the Glock was miserable, in either chambering. I'm very accurate with the Sig 9mm, and acceptably accurate (but need some improvement, new sights?) with the Sig in .40. YMMV.
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Please define "much safer."
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safe (sf)
adj. saf·er, saf·est
1. Secure from danger, harm, or evil.
2. Free from danger or injury; unhurt: safe and sound.
3. Free from risk; sure: a safe bet.
4. Affording protection: a safe place.
5. Baseball Having reached a base without being put out, as a batter or base runner.
6. Not Glock...
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
n.
1. A metal container usually having a lock, used for storing valuables.
2. A repository for protecting stored items, especially a cooled compartment for perishable foods: a cheese safe.
3. Slang A condom.
ochmude
Marine Veteran
Question to those with more knowledge than myself in the workings of Sigs. My understanding is that once you have made condition 1 and decocked, the firearm is not significantly different (in terms of safety) from a condition 1 Glock, save perhaps a minor variation in trigger pull. I'm specifically referring to a DA/SA Sig and to the first round to be fired. Is this a correct understanding of the mechanism?
They're two very different animals, IMO.
For starters a Sig P series has little/no spring pressure under the hammer at rest if it is decocked, whereas with the Glock you have a "Garage Door Spring" kind of setup, which basically "helps" you pull the trigger once you get it started, although the striker itself is only slightly preloaded on the Glock at rest, the net trigger pull on a Glock is far lighter (5.5 pounds, typically, with the exception of guns with lighter or heavier setups, but those are an exception rather than the rule) and the trigger travel distance is a lot less.
At the end of it all though... either of them will only go bang when you pull the trigger, so in that regard, they're the same.. Neither have an external safety.
Also, FWIW, I wouldn't use the term "Condition 1" when describing a Sig, Glock, etc... C1 implies a gun with a round in the pipe and the hammer cocked, with a safety enabled, and neither gun really can satisfy that description.
-Mike
Last edited:
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Yes, it is the trigger pull that makes a difference, both the weight and the length of travel. To make it shootable in DA, those two things should be as light and as short as possible. To lessen the likelihood of, or deter, NDs those things should be be has high and as long as possible. The two things are diametrically opposed traits that require balance one way or the other.
Or you could use a really good holster in all cases and it shouldn't be an issue either way.
+1... do we need to revisit this video again, and again and again?
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDfNV9bJoSg
Yes kids, that's a Beretta 92 series, long, heavy, terrible DA trigger- and this lady just NDed a shot into the pavement next to the perp's head.
A long, heavy trigger is no substitute for trigger finger discipline- period.
While I agree that long, heavy triggers offer a small margin of idiot insurance, IMO in the end it may not amount to a hill of beans if the person with the gun does not have their head screwed on straight when it comes to safety. All it really does is generate a false sense of "safety".
-Mike
ochmude
Marine Veteran
Thanks for the clarification. I've just heard comments about Sigs being much safer on more than one occasion, and I was wondering what the basis for that belief actually was, if any real basis existed. I've got a Glock and a 1911. With the Glock it's just pull trigger...go boom. With the 1911 it's pull trigger after disengaging safety and depressing grip safety...go boom. All the Sigs I've shot have seemed to require nothing more than pulling the trigger. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.
Good point. I picked up the habit in the Marines of referring to everything which was "ready to fire" as being in condition 1, up to and including an entire battalion of M198's. I still use it in more of a slang manner than as a reference to the specific physical state of the firearm. Old habits die hard, I suppose.
Good point. I picked up the habit in the Marines of referring to everything which was "ready to fire" as being in condition 1, up to and including an entire battalion of M198's. I still use it in more of a slang manner than as a reference to the specific physical state of the firearm. Old habits die hard, I suppose.
This all depends on how one defines "safety". If we're talking about "safety against negligent discharges" then the primary limiting factor is the guy controlling the firearm, not the firearm itself. While I'll be the first to admit that while a Glock/M+P/XD are less tolerant of idiotic gun handling- basically, that the "Idiot ND safety margin" between a Glock/M+P/XD and some other pistol with a heavier, longer trigger, is less, this difference is often significantly exaggerated..
I realize it might depend on the vernacular. C1 to me has always been "Col Cooper's" definition, but it might be something different to someone else.
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
-Mike
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I own a P229, H&K USP, H&K USP Compact all .40 S&W. Never fired a Glock and have no interest in it after just holding it in my hands at a gun store. Gotta go with what feels comfortable and also looks nice to you as you want to enjoy going to the range with your pride and joys. Have you considered the H&Ks? If you are willing to dish out the $900 for the SIG, take a look at the H&K USP as another option.
For accuracy and reliability I'm partial to SIG.
For accuracy and reliability I'm partial to SIG.
W
wolf223
if you reside in a free state:
I'd go with an M&P40 or M&P40c
if you're a Mass Hole:
think about these two things:
1. if you get a Glock, add $100 or so for some decent sights, and another $30 to $60 for some hi-capacity magazines
2. if you get an M&P, add $60 to $100 for a trigger job
I don't own any Sig's yet.
I'd go with an M&P40 or M&P40c
if you're a Mass Hole:
think about these two things:
1. if you get a Glock, add $100 or so for some decent sights, and another $30 to $60 for some hi-capacity magazines
2. if you get an M&P, add $60 to $100 for a trigger job
I don't own any Sig's yet.
Executive
NES Member
You can shoot lead with the factory barrel in the Sig. You need an aftermarket barrel to shoot lead in the Glock. Lead ammo is cheaper than FMJ for practice. Consider this if you plan to shoot a lot. The 229 tends to hold its value well compared to the 226 and 239. Glocks remain fairly consistent, value-wise, at least in MA. The Glock does hold a few more rounds and the G22 mags will fit the G23, for an even higher capacity. I prefer Sigs over Glocks and have owned both. My ready firearm right now is the 229 in .40 loaded with Hydra-Shocks and equipped with an LED rail light.
Chris
Chris
I know Athe OP's probably already made a decision, but I'm jumping on the bandwagon anyway.
Sig vs. Glock, ultimately you have to choose which one you prefer. Shoot both if you can, but definitely handle both before buying either.
Sigs are heavier than Glocks, this could be a pro or a con, depending on your preference.
Pre-ban high caps are a heck of a lot more common for a G23 than they are for a P229, and even 10 round magazines cost less brand new from Glock that they do from Sig.
The G23 holds one more round of ammo than a P229 in .40 does in a magazine that fits flush, but with the Glock you can use a G22 15 round mag in it as a spare or whatever if you want. Even if you were to use a P226 mag in a Sig P229 you wouldn't get any more ammo than a standard Sig mag out of it.
Everyone and their mother makes holsters for Glocks, and although Sigs are also very popular, you still have more options from a Glock.
The triggers are different because they're different guns, so you'll just have to decide on that for yourself.
Sigs rust faster than Glocks, which is a big deal in the jungle, probably not such a big deal for the average American gun owners, but in my hands it made a difference. I couldn't keep rust off of my P229 and the mags.
I started with Glocks, went to Sig, and went back to Glock, because it suits my needs much better.
But choose the one that fits you best.
Sig vs. Glock, ultimately you have to choose which one you prefer. Shoot both if you can, but definitely handle both before buying either.
Sigs are heavier than Glocks, this could be a pro or a con, depending on your preference.
Pre-ban high caps are a heck of a lot more common for a G23 than they are for a P229, and even 10 round magazines cost less brand new from Glock that they do from Sig.
The G23 holds one more round of ammo than a P229 in .40 does in a magazine that fits flush, but with the Glock you can use a G22 15 round mag in it as a spare or whatever if you want. Even if you were to use a P226 mag in a Sig P229 you wouldn't get any more ammo than a standard Sig mag out of it.
Everyone and their mother makes holsters for Glocks, and although Sigs are also very popular, you still have more options from a Glock.
The triggers are different because they're different guns, so you'll just have to decide on that for yourself.
Sigs rust faster than Glocks, which is a big deal in the jungle, probably not such a big deal for the average American gun owners, but in my hands it made a difference. I couldn't keep rust off of my P229 and the mags.
I started with Glocks, went to Sig, and went back to Glock, because it suits my needs much better.
But choose the one that fits you best.
Yeah but the Glock has Tenifer, which save for HK's HE finish, is bar none the toughest finish out there against rust.
I like Sigs but they are only marginally better than most guns in terms of rust resistance. FWIW, it will vary depending on the gun, etc. Older sigs may be a lot less rust resistant because of the different steel, and Ilaflon vs Nitron... etc.
For domestic use though, I don't even really care one way or the other about finish. Even a tiny amount of care will prevent 99.9% of all potential rust issues.
-Mike
Wow, cant believe this thread is still going. Anyways, I did purchase a gun. I went with the Glock 23. I was in love with it from the moment I shot it at my saftey course. I bought it new in November and already have over 1000 rounds through it. Not one failure.
Mike
Mike
Not entirely true... maybe Sig doesn't sell DAOs anymore at the factory level, but I know they still have the parts to do so on P series guns. From time to time you'll also find a P series DAO on a consignment shelf, etc. There may even be some CPO DAO guns as well, although they might just convert them back to DA/SA when they refurb them.
They are kinda rare overall but they are out there.
-Mike
I'm not knocking Sigs, I only speak from my own experience.
I owned a P229 about two years ago and it was my main carry gun. I was constantly removing rust from the magazines and mag well, at least once a week. It was a great gun, I shot fantastic groups with it, but it is just not the right gun for me.
With that being said, I have very sensitive skin when it comes to metals (what I can wear, etc.) and I have rust problems with most metals that I touch. Something to do with my chemical balances or something I suppose, I'm not sure what, but I've left rust spots on my Sig, a Colt barrel, Kershaw knives, etc. etc. Even after cleaning guns with oil (different brands too), I've left rust on guns. Blued steel will not last in my hands. The finish on 3rd Gen Smith & Wessons seems to be immune to me, but not the finish on an 870, or others.
So I'm a weirdo, and Glocks suit me for more reasons than one.
I'm not knocking Sigs, I only speak from my own experience.
I owned a P229 about two years ago and it was my main carry gun. I was constantly removing rust from the magazines and mag well, at least once a week. It was a great gun, I shot fantastic groups with it, but it is just not the right gun for me.
With that being said, I have very sensitive skin when it comes to metals (what I can wear, etc.) and I have rust problems with most metals that I touch. Something to do with my chemical balances or something I suppose, I'm not sure what, but I've left rust spots on my Sig, a Colt barrel, Kershaw knives, etc. etc. Even after cleaning guns with oil (different brands too), I've left rust on guns. Blued steel will not last in my hands. The finish on 3rd Gen Smith & Wessons seems to be immune to me, but not the finish on an 870, or others.
So I'm a weirdo, and Glocks suit me for more reasons than one.
This isn't the first time I've heard of this. There was a guy on WT, and a couple of people on Sigforum who have the same problem... their perspiration/oils in their skin actually attack metals for some reason.
Most of these guys end up gravitating to Glocks or HKs because they because everything else to rusts too fast, unless they go out of their way to keep the
gun extra clean and not touch the things too much.
-Mike
I'm not knocking Sigs, I only speak from my own experience.
I owned a P229 about two years ago and it was my main carry gun. I was constantly removing rust from the magazines and mag well, at least once a week. It was a great gun, I shot fantastic groups with it, but it is just not the right gun for me.
With that being said, I have very sensitive skin when it comes to metals (what I can wear, etc.) and I have rust problems with most metals that I touch. Something to do with my chemical balances or something I suppose, I'm not sure what, but I've left rust spots on my Sig, a Colt barrel, Kershaw knives, etc. etc. Even after cleaning guns with oil (different brands too), I've left rust on guns. Blued steel will not last in my hands. The finish on 3rd Gen Smith & Wessons seems to be immune to me, but not the finish on an 870, or others.
So I'm a weirdo, and Glocks suit me for more reasons than one.
Ok, that makes sense. I can definitely see the magazines being rust prone and there are people who are, um, rust prone.
I mostly asked because of the stainless slide and aluminum frame on Sigs should be quite rust resistant but I don't really carry my 229 so I can't say first hand. Also, as Mike points out, Tenifer has a great rep. It's actually the same type of coating as Nitron but execution matters and Glock seems to do a great job with it.
FWIW, a dealer is searching for a Glock 19 for me. It won't replace my 229 but I figured I'd try the Glock ownership experience.
PaulD, keep us posted on how you like the G19, but good luck finding one, since the 9mm Glocks seem to get snapped up in this state FAST.
drgrant, what does "WT" stand for?
The only good thing about my body hating most guns is my wallet loving my body for it.
drgrant, what does "WT" stand for?
The only good thing about my body hating most guns is my wallet loving my body for it.
That they do....
Warriortalk, Gabe Suarez's forum. Some of the discussions there
about "real" use of handguns are pretty interesting.
The only good thing about my body hating most guns is my wallet loving my body for it.
True, but if it was my wallet would still have a smoking crater in it from all the HKs and Glocks I would end up buying!
-Mike
SemiAutoSam
Banned
I'm biased as I have owned Sigs since I was real young. keeping that in mind if it were a choice between a Sig and a Glock I would pick the SIG every time.
I own 5 or 6 of them P226's in 9mm, P229's in all 3 calibers 9mm, 40sw, 357 Sig. soon a P245 and a P239
Oh something some of you might not know the 20 round 9mm mags interchange between the p226 in 9mm and the p229 in 9mm.
I also love the Colt 1911 format and have a few of those as well.
Also have a pair of Para Ordinances but they have a bas rep at times although I have never had a problem with mine.
I own 5 or 6 of them P226's in 9mm, P229's in all 3 calibers 9mm, 40sw, 357 Sig. soon a P245 and a P239
Oh something some of you might not know the 20 round 9mm mags interchange between the p226 in 9mm and the p229 in 9mm.
I also love the Colt 1911 format and have a few of those as well.
Also have a pair of Para Ordinances but they have a bas rep at times although I have never had a problem with mine.
