Going 1911

[drgrant]

I just don't lose sleep over "It should be a .45" concept

The reason people say this is because most 9mm 1911s were dumpster fires in terms of reliability, up until the past few years or so. You can have a mediocre .45 1911 that will still mostly work. If someone has a mediocre 9mm they're just going to want to throw the gun downrange instead of shoot it.

-Mike

 

[mark056]

A BHP is an awful shooting experience (marginal trigger, awful safety) compared to a well tuned 9mm 1911, albeit the BHP is, without argument, far more reliable. I give it credit for existing though because the BHP was literally the "handgun that launched double stack 9mm handguns" as a generality.

-Mike

Actually Mike the BHP with a trigger job by a Wayne Novak or Cylinder and Slide or now the new Nighthawk edition is as good as any other pistol. I've collected, shot, carried and used the BHP for decades. When Browning went to the Mk III the thumb safety issue was satisfactorily resolved and robust ambi safeties have been standard for over close to 30 years. C&S makes a great after market thumb safety.

Triggers can vary too out of the box. I have an Argentine Licensed Mk II with a factory trigger that's unbelievable. I'll let you shoot it if we happen to be at an NES shoot sometime.

The only major fault is that mags don't always fall freely. This can be addressed two ways: remove the mag safety or use the newer mags made for Browning by Meggar with the mousetrap springs. C&S also makes an after market trigger that when installed is wider and also is so designed that the mag safety must be removed for proper installation. Mag safeties are another topic for another time.

Another advantage is that there are plenty of pre-ban mags out there. Meggar makes 15 round ones which work very well.

Second only to my love of S&W metal semi autos particularly the M39, and 2nd Gen 4,5,639's the BHP holds my interest. There are plenty of aftermarket accessories to personalize the pistol to your specs.

You don't sound like you have much familiarity with the pistol and are simply repeating the tired and worn out cliches echoed by gun hacks in periodicals from gun rags of times past. There is some validity to your claim, I am not denying that, but like the 1911 any perceived or actual deficiencies can be overcome without much difficulty.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Knowing that the awesomeness of 230g of 45 ACP goodness will knock down those poppers with a hit anywhere, I would go into that position full speed and hose away those 3 shots.

I've seen you shoot, and you're a fair bit better than the usual armed bear. Full speed on 3 poppers with 3 in the gun may be a viable strategy at your skill level.

Assume an average person has a 95% chance of hitting the mini popper on each shot going at full speed. This means the chances of cleaning 3 for 3 are only .95^3 or 85.7%. This means that if you have a 95% hit probability, you have a 14% chance of a miss on three shots. Your choices are take that risk, or slow down a bit to increase that 95% - both actions being unnecessary if you have a couple of spare rounds left.

 

[peterthefish]

Damn, I should have skipped over this thread. Now I'm thinking I "need" a 9mm 1911. I dumped my Colt Gold Cup 8 or 9 years ago and never looked back. Everyone has to have at least one 1911 in their collection, so now I need one. Unfortunately, this thread did not convince me which one to get.

I need one that's "done", I don't want to have to send it out for work as soon as I get it, and I'm not capable of doing it myself. Must have ambidextrous safety as I'm a lefty. Must be reliable. It will never be anything more than a range toy, but it still has to run as close to flawlessly as you can get for under $1500.

Any ideas???

Dan Wesson PM-9. I can bring one to Wallum Lake once winter ends...

 

[DW357]

Dan Wesson PM-9. I can bring one to Wallum Lake once winter ends...

Beat me to it. Mine has been great so far. I can count on one hand how many times I've had a FTE in the 5k+ rounds I've run through it. The FTE's start occurring when it gets dirty since it's so friggen tight.

 

[Cuz]

Yeah, the PM9 is a nice looking 1911. I think I first need to decide if I want something so tight it needs to be kept clean to run reliably or if I want something that will run reliably on a biannual cleaning schedule...



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[DW357]

Yeah, the PM9 is a nice looking 1911. I think I first need to decide if I want something so tight it needs to be kept clean to run reliably or if I want something that will run reliably on a biannual cleaning schedule...



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I usually clean mine every 300-400 rounds. It will certainly still run beyond that, but you might get an occasional FTE once every 100-150 rounds or so. I'm not sure which quality 9mm 1911 can run flawlessly on a biannual cleaning schedule? Unless you shoot a few hundred rounds a year? I use the PM9 for competition so I try to keep it clean/lubed well.

 

[peterthefish]

Yeah, the PM9 is a nice looking 1911. I think I first need to decide if I want something so tight it needs to be kept clean to run reliably or if I want something that will run reliably on a biannual cleaning schedule...



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Keep it lubed, it'll be fine. I'd like to move to a bi-annual cleaning schedule but it seems like a lot of work.

SIGs are nice too but I can't justify them at the current price. I grabbed mine when they were in the $650-$750 range - seem to be closer to $1K now.

 

[Gammon]

A BHP is an awful shooting experience (marginal trigger, awful safety) compared to a well tuned 9mm 1911, albeit the BHP is, without argument, far more reliable. I give it credit for existing though because the BHP was literally the "handgun that launched double stack 9mm handguns" as a generality.

-Mike

The Browning HP is lauded by many as JMB's idea of a new and improved 1911. The truth is that Browning was unable to use many of his proven designs on the HP because he sold all of his 1911 patents to Colt. He was limited in his design options because he had already sold many of his best ideas.

 

[Cuz]

I never liked the way the Browning HP looked for some reason.


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[Cuz]

I usually clean mine every 300-400 rounds. It will certainly still run beyond that, but you might get an occasional FTE once every 100-150 rounds or so. I'm not sure which quality 9mm 1911 can run flawlessly on a biannual cleaning schedule? Unless you shoot a few hundred rounds a year? I use the PM9 for competition so I try to keep it clean/lubed well.

Really? Maybe that's why I no longer own any. However, I do have a 9mm STI Eagle that is a double-stack 1911 (called a 2011) that regularly goes about 4-5000 rounds between cleanings. I also have a .40 cal SVI Sight Tracker 2011 that also reliably shoots 4000 rounds between cleanings. Heck, the only time I ever cleaned it was if I shot it in the rain. Otherwise I never did anything but lube it twice a year or so. And anyone familiar with those models will confirm that they are both very accurate pistols.

I just didn't want to spend that kind of money this time around since I'm buying it more just to have one than to shoot it much.


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[Knuckle Dragger]

Damn, I should have skipped over this thread. Now I'm thinking I "need" a 9mm 1911. I dumped my Colt Gold Cup 8 or 9 years ago and never looked back. Everyone has to have at least one 1911 in their collection, so now I need one. Unfortunately, this thread did not convince me which one to get.

I need one that's "done", I don't want to have to send it out for work as soon as I get it, and I'm not capable of doing it myself. Must have ambidextrous safety as I'm a lefty. Must be reliable. It will never be anything more than a range toy, but it still has to run as close to flawlessly as you can get for under $1500.

Any ideas???

STI Trojan from Brazos. /thread. You're welcome to try mine sometime after a match.

 

[mark056]

The Browning HP is lauded by many as JMB's idea of a new and improved 1911. The truth is that Browning was unable to use many of his proven designs on the HP because he sold all of his 1911 patents to Colt. He was limited in his design options because he had already sold many of his best ideas.

Another interesting gunshop myth. In truth Browning only did the preliminary concept on the pistol which was originally a concept gun for a French military contract that never materialized. Saive, his assistant at FN did most of the design work.

In reality Browning and Colt divided up the world as to marketing territories and there was a neutral zone so to speak. They offered the Model FN Grand Browning Automatic Pistol which was an exact copy of the Model of 1910 which became the 1911 when the US Army adopted it in April, 1911.

They developed a 9.8mm cartridge which they thought would be popular but never took off. The main reason the pistol was never a commercial success was because they were only started production and made very few before WW1 broke out, the Germans invaded Belgium and occupied Herstal early in August, 1914.

My suggestion is that if you want to learn more about this fascinating pistol that you read: The Browning High Power Automatic Pistol by R. Blake Stevens, 2nd Edition, Collector Grade Publications 1992 and not rely on what you heard or "somebody told you." Pay special attention to Chapter 1. There is BTW several excellent photos of the Browning Grand Automatic, FN's 1911.

 

[440beeper]

Rock Island 1911s are tough to beat for the money. I'm actually surprised I don't see more of them on the ranges, they're great shooters.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I also have a .40 cal SVI Sight Tracker 2011 that also reliably shoots 4000 rounds between cleanings.

The factory recommends that you keep the slide/frame lubed regularly even if you go a long time between actual cleanings.

 

[slap shot]

i do want to get a springfield loaded .45

or some sort of 70 series .45 that won't break the bank.

I think all the RIA 1911's in .45 are series 70.

 

[drgrant]

Actually Mike the BHP with a trigger job by a Wayne Novak or Cylinder and Slide or now the new Nighthawk edition is as good as any other pistol. I've collected, shot, carried and used the BHP for decades. When Browning went to the Mk III the thumb safety issue was satisfactorily resolved and robust ambi safeties have been standard for over close to 30 years. C&S makes a great after market thumb safety.

Triggers can vary too out of the box. I have an Argentine Licensed Mk II with a factory trigger that's unbelievable. I'll let you shoot it if we happen to be at an NES shoot sometime.

The only major fault is that mags don't always fall freely. This can be addressed two ways: remove the mag safety or use the newer mags made for Browning by Meggar with the mousetrap springs. C&S also makes an after market trigger that when installed is wider and also is so designed that the mag safety must be removed for proper installation. Mag safeties are another topic for another time.

Another advantage is that there are plenty of pre-ban mags out there. Meggar makes 15 round ones which work very well.

Second only to my love of S&W metal semi autos particularly the M39, and 2nd Gen 4,5,639's the BHP holds my interest. There are plenty of aftermarket accessories to personalize the pistol to your specs.

You don't sound like you have much familiarity with the pistol and are simply repeating the tired and worn out cliches echoed by gun hacks in periodicals from gun rags of times past. There is some validity to your claim, I am not denying that, but like the 1911 any perceived or actual deficiencies can be overcome without much difficulty.

I'll back off my "awful" and make it more like "not awe inspiring". There are a shitload of handguns in this category for me, that doesn't make them bad guns. I had a BHP for a year, shot it a few times, cleaned it a couple, and it's about to go back to my friend who is the owner. So I have a fair amount of experience with the gun. My main beef is with the safety lever sucking and the magazine safety.. both things that I turn into a prick about. I just don't see the allure of a BHP when I can get a semi-custom CZ for not that much more money and end up with a better gun. Of course I freely acknowledge that the CZ wouldnt exist without the
BHP becoming successful.

A BHP is a gun I would keep around if I inherited it or something, for sure- but I'm not going to go out of my way to buy one. I feel the same way about bone stock USGI 1911s, too. I am surprised that at a bare minimum they never bothered to improve the BHP's safety lever at least.

-Mike

 

[eo1bart]

The BHP thumb safety was improved around 1982 with the release of the MKII. They all have decent size ambi safeties now. The first thing I do on any Hi Power I've owned is remove the magazine safety and install one of the new safeties, if the the pistol is an older model. My HP's have about a 6.5# trigger pull with a clean break. I've owned two polymer guns, one I had for a month and the other I sold the day after I bought it. HA