Nice!
So... When is the rifle range going in? By my public school math, 1200' = 400 yards.
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Going for a 40+ acre lot....Thoughts?
- Thread starter DJBrad
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So... When is the rifle range going in? By my public school math, 1200' = 400 yards.
BarnBuilder
NES Member
Good for you on hiring a LPLS (Licensed Professional Land Surveyor) to determine the actual lot lines. With such a large investment you would want to know exactly what you own. The only one who can "Legally" determine where the lot line is a LPLS along along with a stamped plan (with appropriate state license # and signature) are the only thing that is admissible as evidence in court of law in the COMMIEWEALTH. You cannot visually rely on a tree line, fence line or even a stone wall.
This is from my own personal experience hiring a LPLS, writing that check (gladly) and visiting Mass. Land Court
Good luck with your adventure OP
This is from my own personal experience hiring a LPLS, writing that check (gladly) and visiting Mass. Land Court
Good luck with your adventure OP
Shall I ask what your experience with Mass Land Court was? Border dispute? I’ve already talked to the abutter and we are meeting up to chat. He’s a friendly guy that had no idea where the lot lines were and 20 years thought the land behind him was state land. Nonetheless we will amicably solve this without duress.Good for you on hiring a LPLS (Licensed Professional Land Surveyor) to determine the actual lot lines. With such a large investment you would want to know exactly what you own. The only one who can "Legally" determine where the lot line is a LPLS along along with a stamped plan (with appropriate state license # and signature) are the only thing that is admissible as evidence in court of law in the COMMIEWEALTH. You cannot visually rely on a tree line, fence line or even a stone wall.
This is from my own personal experience hiring a LPLS, writing that check (gladly) and visiting Mass. Land Court
Good luck with your adventure OP
Sparkey
NES Member
Not going to build a stump wall
BarnBuilder
NES Member
The Land Court issue was a dispute with a neighbor saying I could not have a "Commercial Business" in a residential zone. However we were building a new horse barn, indoor riding arena etc. which is defined as "Agriculture" under MGL. CH40 sec3 & Section 128 and is allowed but the ZBA rescinded my building permit out of spite and I had to appeal to Land Court.
The funny thing is I personally knew the building inspector and was finishing shingling the roof when he showed up and handed me the "Cease and Desist" order and told me I had to stop working on the barn. I laughed at him and said I am going to continue. He said that he could make me tear it down if the courts didn't find in my favor. I told him that shortest distance between me and a judge is exactly what I wanted. He did say though that "Pre-Construction activities can continue during the appeals process" So my lawyer sent a letter stating I would appeal and I continued not only to build my farm but run the business.
I did my homework though and had a list of court cases that already set precedent for what we were doing and 1 yr later a summary judgement was made based on those cases. I never saw the inspector after that on my property. We did meet often in his office on other building permits and projects that I was doing at the time. He knew nothing of the AG laws in the State and eventually used the Ag laws to his advantage on his own 17 acre residential lot.
I now work as a sales manager for a barn building company and when the inspector says he can't justify giving a permit. I just say let me speak with town counsel as he will have to defend the town in a lawsuit. So far it's worked multiple times.
Thanks Ken A. (LPLS and my sons Godfather) for all your hard work and expert advice.
Payment was the easy part Beer, Duck/Goose Hunting and Skeet shooting
The funny thing is I personally knew the building inspector and was finishing shingling the roof when he showed up and handed me the "Cease and Desist" order and told me I had to stop working on the barn. I laughed at him and said I am going to continue. He said that he could make me tear it down if the courts didn't find in my favor. I told him that shortest distance between me and a judge is exactly what I wanted. He did say though that "Pre-Construction activities can continue during the appeals process" So my lawyer sent a letter stating I would appeal and I continued not only to build my farm but run the business.
I did my homework though and had a list of court cases that already set precedent for what we were doing and 1 yr later a summary judgement was made based on those cases. I never saw the inspector after that on my property. We did meet often in his office on other building permits and projects that I was doing at the time. He knew nothing of the AG laws in the State and eventually used the Ag laws to his advantage on his own 17 acre residential lot.
I now work as a sales manager for a barn building company and when the inspector says he can't justify giving a permit. I just say let me speak with town counsel as he will have to defend the town in a lawsuit. So far it's worked multiple times.
Thanks Ken A. (LPLS and my sons Godfather) for all your hard work and expert advice.
Payment was the easy part Beer, Duck/Goose Hunting and Skeet shooting
BarnBuilder
NES Member
OP
I will send you file of the Mass AG laws that I have used in the past tomorrow when I get to the office. There are some exemptions that may help you manage your land while telling local officials "Get off my lawn"
I will send you file of the Mass AG laws that I have used in the past tomorrow when I get to the office. There are some exemptions that may help you manage your land while telling local officials "Get off my lawn"
Just because you had the property line surveyed and staked does NOT mean the neighbor is barred from claiming adverse possession or prescriptive easement. Give him a license for a $1 a year and you will preserve your ownership while he can keep "his yard" the way has has been accustomed to doing. Since he mentions 20 years, he might know a thing or two about it. Be careful.
Not sure if you are a lawyer but I’ve already talked to one. Once it’s staked it’s mighty hard for the “adverse” abutter to claim an adverse ownership over that past 20 years. Nonetheless I am forming a signed agreement with him to keep it as is until next summer and then all of his stuff goes back behind the line.
BarnBuilder
NES Member
Good for you OP. Always find a simple amenable solution ... but ... always have admissible factual evidence of the law in your back pocket. Just in case.
Kind of like having that spare mag
Kind of like having that spare mag
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Not at all correct. In fact, once it is staked, that shows clearly that the neighbor indeed has been squatting on the land you just purchased.
As long as he is willing to move his stuff back across the line, you'll be fine. Good luck.
Thanks for the clarification. Some cases I came across show that the squatter needs to have known the land was not theirs in the first place and raise a flag or paint an “X” or some other “adverse” move from the time they trespassed leading up all the way to the day the owner reclaims it or stakes it. If the squatter improves the land like clearing, tilling, and growing crops then that could also stand as the right to claim it but it still must prove to be “adverse”. Maybe Ma law is different totally.
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thnxThe essence of the claim is not that they know the land is not theirs, but that they are taking the land AS THEIRS, regardless of who might own actual title to that area. They don't need to know who actually owns the land. The adverse part is where he mowed it and put his things down on it, the wood pile, the planter, etc. You should know also that there is "tacking" -- successors-in-interest can claim the period of adverse usage established by prior adverse users if there is privity of title between those users.
headednorth
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What happens if the guy gets pissy, pulls up the stakes and throws them in the woods?
It's a crime to disturb survey markers, so he'll get into trouble when he didn't need to and when he actually probably had the upper hand. Besides, the property line is where it is, whether or not the markers are in the ground.
BarnBuilder
NES Member
If you are worried that this may happen. Set trail cams. If I remember correctly it's also a criminal offense. Always have evidence
KBCraig
NES Member
Talking softly is easier with the big stick of survey stakes in your back pocket.
headednorth
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Ive worked in low income areas for too long I guess. My mind just automatically goes there and theres consistently "nothing we can do".
BarnBuilder
NES Member
To normal people it does not BUT to a lawyer ANY CONFLICT = $$$$$$
My property lines were just surveyed by my abutter. The corners are staked and capped with the surveyors mark.
ETA My point is, if the surveyor is doing his job, he (she) is staking it.
ETA My point is, if the surveyor is doing his job, he (she) is staking it.
BarnBuilder
NES Member
I'd call that a WIN
Yup. Maybe. The question is why are they surveying the property. It's about 80 acres of forest that was once granted development rights back the 80's.
My back woods may soon be full of ticky tacky houses. Just like the McMansions across the street from me.
BarnBuilder
NES Member
Get the name of the surveyor on the stake cap and reach out and ask the purpose of the survey.
and that is probably exactly what you'll see.
The 39 acres I bought in April(yes overpaid, but it is mine) was purchased from someone who bought it less than a year prior. They immediately went out and surveyed it, likely with the intent to subdivide and develop and/or sell off parcels. Once they figured it might be a pain in the rear to subdivide/develop as there is a stream running through it/oodles of big rocks, they decided to flip it.
The listing when I bought it was full of references to subviding.
Bonus is I have a fresh survey and I'll drop a SFH on 39 acres and call it good.
My exact plan and decisive action taken. I also have a veritable zoo there too. I can get 3-4 lots out of this parcel if zoning laws don’t get more strict in the future. It’s got the frontage and with the amount of precipitation we’ve received this last year I studied the vernal pools, intermittent streams, and seepages. No issue at all and even with this much rain the pools are still dry at this late stage in summer.
I spent a few hours with the abutter yesterday and we came to a firm agreement. Actually without me saying anything previously he had already made a new spot for his woodpile on his side of the line. It was a fruitful time and as is with country folks they usually just deal honestly and keeping good relationships with such folks is vital for the future. I gave him until next summer to finalize the material possession movement and he was good with that.
He has 1.3 acres. The issue he may still face is that a corner lot a few houses up has a flag lot that takes about another 25ft of his “backyard” and comes to a point to meet at the lot corner where 4 abutters converge behind that woodpile. That other owner is selling and who knows what may occur next.
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