Gun at Logan - Actual Charges??

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Just saw on the news a guy with a loaded 380 in his bag tried to get through security at Logan. What an idiot.

The part I found odd was that Fox25 News reported that one of the charges was "Possession of a firearm AT an airport." Is this accurate? It got me concerned as I frequently express my rights at Logan as my part time job brings me there - although almost never inside a building and not anywhere near secured zones.

I thought it was technically legal outside of the secured terminals. ???

I've quickly looked up the story in a few other places and could not confirm this particular charge. Hopefully it is just another case of terrible reporting on gun issues.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/13790337/detail.html
 
The Gun Carrier lives in NC

Just saw on the news a guy with a loaded 380 in his bag tried to get through security at Logan. What an idiot.

The part I found odd was that Fox25 News reported that one of the charges was "Possession of a firearm AT an airport." Is this accurate? It got me concerned as I frequently express my rights at Logan as my part time job brings me there - although almost never inside a building and not anywhere near secured zones.

I thought it was technically legal outside of the secured terminals. ???

I've quickly looked up the story in a few other places and could not confirm this particular charge. Hopefully it is just another case of terrible reporting on gun issues.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/13790337/detail.html

One problem for this fellow is that he has a NC license and not one for MA. He drove up from NC with his family and his gun, concealed in his brief case. The second problem is that he forgot he had the loaded gun in his brief case and showed up at Logan trying to board a plane. One lesson to take away from this incident is NEVER-EVER assume that your bags are packed and will pass security checks. Always double check your luggage before you arrive at the airport. Little knives and other un-flyables will get you a dirty look and be confiscated, a loaded hand gun will get you a heap of more difficulty. I wonder what the official penalty will be for this NC businessman's lapse in judgement.
Best Regards.
 
One problem for this fellow is that he has a NC license and not one for MA. He drove up from NC with his family and his gun, concealed in his brief case. The second problem is that he forgot he had the loaded gun in his brief case and showed up at Logan trying to board a plane. One lesson to take away from this incident is NEVER-EVER assume that your bags are packed and will pass security checks. Always double check your luggage before you arrive at the airport. Little knives and other un-flyables will get you a dirty look and be confiscated, a loaded hand gun will get you a heap of more difficulty. I wonder what the official penalty will be for this NC businessman's lapse in judgement.
Best Regards.

I believe the biggest lesson here is to stay the hell out of Mass.

:)
 
I believe the biggest lesson here is to stay the hell out of Mass.

Then you obviously don't "get it." [rolleyes]

The possession of a prohibited item within the secure area is a violation of FEDERAL law; the state statute is superfluous. The fact that TSA is a Federal agency should make that clear.
 
From the article it sounds like he was going through security with his briefcase as a carryon. It's one thing to have a pistol in your luggage. It would be another thing entirely if it was in his carryon piece. He obviously forgot that he had it in there and must have made a "good impression" on the judge who reduced the bond to $2500 instead of what the procecutor wanted, $25,000! The judge must have recognized that this guy wasn't trying to get away with anything other than being inattentive. Still, I have to agree that you don't go willy-nilly to any airport anymore without double checking what you're carrying in your luggage. He made a mistake and is going to pay for it in more ways than one. The same thing happened here in CT not long ago. A guy who regularly carrys a small pistol in his briefcase forgot it was there when trying to make a flight. IT happens but it shouldn't.

What got me is that, according to the article, the cops asked him if he had a permit. What difference would that have made? If he were going through security, all the permits in the world woundn't have saved him. If, however, he had it in his luggage (again, the article doesn't really address this) then having a permit might have mitigaged things a little however traveling with a loaded pistol is verboten, of course. It would have to be locked and unloaded and in a locked hard case, ammo elsewhere. Then he would have had to declare it to the TSA xraying his luggage.

I've traveled with both handguns and rifles many times on planes. I've never been hassled. In Boston and in NY, however, they do check to see if you have a permit in order to check your luggage. In CT, they do not. I've never been asked if I have a current CT handgun permit when I've traveled. For all they know I'm a mob hit man. I'm not complaining, mind you, but it is a bit wierd. In MA and in NY, the TSA will ask about permits and if you don't have one, even declaring the pistol in your bag and following all the rules won't save you. You'll be arrested.

Not long ago, a lady from the midwest was visiting her family in VT. She decided to fly home from NY from an airport just over the border from VT. When she arrived she dutifully declared her pistol at the NY airport and was promptly arrested because she didn't have a NY license. This was also an oversight on her part.

Flying with firearms is not hard but it does require a lot of diligence on your part and not just for what your itinerary calls for. You also have to know what you're going to do if you are diverted to an "unfriendly" state. A year or two ago, a guy flying to the coast found his plane diverted to JFK due to weather and his flight was eventually terminated until the next morning. He was traveling with a handgun....all properly declared and above board. He had to collect his luggage which he did. The next morning, he went to check in for the continuing flight to his destination and was promptly arrested at the counter when he declared his luggage. Again, no NY license. He didn't think things through and NY wouldn't budge.

That poor NC guy in Boston is going to have to deal with the hassle and also lose his pistol, I'm sure. And, it's going to be tough for him to keep his permit in NC, too, I'd think. I'm sure it ruined his day.

Rome
 
The lack of a MA permit allows state charges including Bartley-Fox to be added. IN this case, it would appear a state charge of unlicensed carry bears a mandatory 1` year sentence (generally reserved for those innocent of any other concurrent crimes), whereas the federal violation may come with more sentencing discretion.

I have never had TSA or counter personnel ask for a permit in MA or RI (the only two permit needed states I fly out of).

As to NY, they are famous for checking permits at the airport and also for ignoring FOPA86. At minimum, mentioning anything that is inconsistent with "on a continuous and uninterrupted trip" means getting nailed. Even saying the right thing is no guarantee of proper action by the police. Ditto for Albany, NY.
 
Not for nothing, but if this guy forgot he had a loaded gun, he is an idiot.


Plus, if he had a NC permit and not MA one he was illiegal the entire time he was in MA. Unless he drove right from NC to Logan as part of his "trip." But that is not likely.

How was he planning to get it home??

I think I read somewhere that his wife had no idea he had it. Not the way you want to break it to your wife that you carry in your briefcase.
 
That poor NC guy in Boston is going to have to deal with the hassle and also lose his pistol, I'm sure. And, it's going to be tough for him to keep his permit in NC, too, I'd think. I'm sure it ruined his day.

Rome

If he gets convicted, and it's a felony (very likely) then it's going to
be a lot worse than that- he'll end up being a prohibited person and
lose his right to (legally) possess any kind of a firearm.

-Mike
 
DBHN, you make a great point. I overlooked that. He was "illegal" in MA the entire time he was there.

This is the one, major issue in my book. I know there has been a lot of talk about a national reciprocity act that would recognize each state's license just like a driver's license. That would virtually eliminate all of these hassles. Maybe if the 2nd amendment arguement is settled, that would go a long way to clearing the road for that great bill. It's a bit PITA to have to be concerned about which state accepts which other state's license. I always check the regs, of course, but it's really nuts.

Finally, I'm aghast that MA doesn't ask for a permit when you check a handgun. I have a Mass LTC-A but I've always flown from Hartford and each time it's an "event" for the TSAs. Again, I'm not asking that they do check (as I've stated, neither does CT). One would think that the TSA would want to know that the person checking the handgun has a permit to have one. I believe that even checked in your luggage and properly locked and unloaded it's still considered that you are "carrying" it. That's how the woman leaving from VT in the NY airport got caught up. Sure, it's packed away but you have "access" to it in the laws eyes.

Anyway, it's a shame but this NC guy really messed up. I'd be curious to know if NC will revoke his permit, even if it's a shall-issue state.

Rome
 
Finally, I'm aghast that MA doesn't ask for a permit when you check a handgun. I have a Mass LTC-A but I've always flown from Hartford and each time it's an "event" for the TSAs. Again, I'm not asking that they do check (as I've stated, neither does CT). One would think that the TSA would want to know that the person checking the handgun has a permit to have one. I believe that even checked in your luggage and properly locked and unloaded it's still considered that you are "carrying" it.

IMO it's none of the TSA's business to check permits and the
like, or the airlines, for that matter. Besides, the passenger
could be utilizing FOPA to transit through an airport in a commie
state to get to another place. (edit: according to FOPA, though one
must have at lest some kind of permit from their home state to
enable this provision, etc. )

Sadly, what ends up happening in a lot of places is sometimes
the airline droid will summon the airport cops for a little "papers
please" session; with the end results being what happens to
people trying to transit NY and NJ airports without state issued
permits. (hassle at a minimum, arrest at worst)

-Mike
 
Plus, if he had a NC permit and not MA one he was illiegal the entire time he was in MA. Unless he drove right from NC to Logan as part of his "trip." But that is not likely.

How was he planning to get it home??

I think I read somewhere that his wife had no idea he had it. Not the way you want to break it to your wife that you carry in your briefcase.


Without a MA LTC, stopping at Logan to fly out is a stop and he would be illegal to carry. When you change modes of transportation it is considered a stop, even though it is part of a "trip".
 
Without a MA LTC, stopping at Logan to fly out is a stop and he would be illegal to carry. When you change modes of transportation it is considered a stop, even though it is part of a "trip".

If what you say is true, that would mean that I couldn't fly out of Albany or Hartford as I don't have permits in either NY or CT.

Anyone care to chime in concerning this?
 
Without a MA LTC, stopping at Logan to fly out is a stop and he would be illegal to carry. When you change modes of transportation it is considered a stop, even though it is part of a "trip".

Sorry, but that's bogus. That's the whole point of FOPA- to enable
individuals to transit commie states with unloaded firearms. Also,
the mode doesn't matter, just that the people involved are merely
"passing through" and not staying in the commie state.

In the end, those who have been arrested for trying to move
unloaded guns through newark airport etc, have been
exonerated because they were covered by FOPA, so obviously it's
legally meaningful to some small degree.

The real problem is that numerous anti jurisdictions don't really
obey FOPA and still arrest people anyways; so functionally
speaking a lot of times FOPA doesn't do much... not sure how
certain "gun marginal" states are about it, though. (like CT).


-Mike
 
Without a MA LTC, stopping at Logan to fly out is a stop and he would be illegal to carry. When you change modes of transportation it is considered a stop, even though it is part of a "trip".

That is not correct. FOPA covers the entire trip from where you start to your final destination, whether you switch from car to bike to plane to train to plane again.

This guy was acting illegally just because he couldn't bring the gun to MA anyway, but your statement is blatantly false.
 
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That is not correct. FOPA covers the entire trip from where you start to your final destination, whether you switch from car to bike to plane to train to plane again.

This guy was acting illegally just because he couldn't bring the gun to MA anyway, but your statement is blatantly false.


He could bring the gun into MA legally if it was part of his continuous trip and he complied with the storage/transport part of the law. That is what the Fed law covers.

I don't think that will cover him as I think he made his stay in MA and was not just passing through. So, he would need a MA permit as this was the destination of his trip.

Even if he was covered by the Fed law that doesn't allow the gun to be loaded and unsecured as it was.
 
Without a MA LTC, stopping at Logan to fly out is a stop and he would be illegal to carry. When you change modes of transportation it is considered a stop, even though it is part of a "trip".
Can you cite statute or case law on this?
 
Can you cite statute or case law on this?

I don't think there is any.

From memory, you can even stay overnight, stop for gas, stop for food, etc. on your "trip" in a state in which you are not permitted. As long as they are reasonable. You cannot drive cross country stopping at all major attractions and expect the law to cover you.

I don't recall anything in the law that mentioned mode of transport.

Many here drive into CT or RI from MA to get to the airports for a flight. They do not need a permit for CT or RI, only for where their trip is ending.
 
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