Guns for "non-gun" people

[Mikey]

I have actually been surprised by a few "non-gun" people who brought up the idea of a "just in case" gun to me. Now for the most part I don't think these people will follow through and do it (take class, get license, buy gun) but I like to give them suggests and help them try to help themselves.

So I usually tell them to buy a rifle and a case of ammo. My usual suggestion is an SKS and 500rds of ammo or if they want to spend a little more I tell them about Saiga rifles in .223 or 7.62x39.

What do you guys think, this is the best way to go? Maybe a shotgun or bolt action rifle would be better?

Remember these are people who will probably shoot the gun once then lock it up until needed.

 

[jar]

Just in case of what? SHTF, I think the SKS is a good choice. Burglar defense, I'd go with either a Mossberg 500 or a 357 revolver. The Ruger Service/Security Sixes are a good choice because they're pretty cheap and built like tanks.

 

[Mikey]

Sorry, SHTF type stuff not home defense or anything like that.

 

[pipmaster1971]

Maybe a Kel-Tec SU-16. Good price, reasonable quality, fun to shoot and can be folded in half for easy storage (and if they live a free state they can get the SU-16C which can be fired from folded).

Heck...I'm thinking of getting one myself.

 

[Hoppy]

well depending how the S does HTF changes what id suggest.

i think we can assume that since they arnt pro gun they probably wont show up on the town green when the church bell tolls. so i dont think they will be needing an FAL, EOTECHed AR or Kobra'd AK, 10+ mags and thousands of rounds of ammo.

if SHTF to them is bugging out from some event such as flooding or rioting we begin to see more beginner ( and by that means WALLET) friendly options.

if they only get thier FID: the old standby, the 12 gauge pump gun is a solid choice. cheap to buy. cheap to feed, and most importantly cheap to practice with. this gun would be a very solid choice for a general bug out with in anything up to war conditions. plenty to defend your family and food/gas suply

a second choice would be the SKS. almost as cheap to buy, just as cheap to practice with, and its a rifle. Rifles > shotguns

the 3rd choice is the venerable lever gun. i feel this is the mid ground between the two. decent range, but light and handy. its only down side is its slightly higher initial price tag. .38/357, .44mag , or .45lc are all good options. .38/.357 gets my vote for cheaper, more readily available ammo with still plenty of power

if they are willing to get their LTC ( either class) then the options begin to expand to Pistols, Revolvers, Pistol Caliber Carbines, and full fledged auto loaders. this becomes more personal preference and wallet weight

 

[vellnueve]

A good package for anyone would be a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 with a 24 inch barrel, and a M&P. A 9mm carbine would also be an option.

 

[Mike-Mike]

A good Ruger 10/22 (or similar) is better then nothing in a SHTF situation. They can have thousands of rounds on hand and not feel that they have an evil gun. Also, The first time they shoot it they will have a blast and be hooked.

 

[Scrivener]

A good Ruger 10/22 (or similar) is better then nothing in a SHTF situation. They can have thousands of rounds on hand and not feel that they have an evil gun. Also, The first time they shoot it they will have a blast and be hooked.

Excellent advice, given the reasonable premise that most of the non-gunners asking that question will do absolutely nothing further; especially after seeing what is required just to get an FID card.

If they DO actually get licensed, a gun that they will enjoy shooting and can afford to shoot frequently is the best "first gun" for them.

 

[Mikey]

I never really gave a .22 much thought but it sounds like a good idea.

I can tell them to load it with Stingers for the zombies.

 

[m44]

I would tell them to get a mosin, they are a cheap gun and milsurp ammo is also dirt cheap. The SKS is also a good choice, another one although a little more pricey I would say get a M1 carbine.

 

[lemonlime571]

mossy 500 and a sigma 9mm would be a really cheap way to cover yourself... May not look good, but who cares!

 

[P-14]

A good Ruger 10/22 (or similar) is better then nothing in a SHTF situation. They can have thousands of rounds on hand and not feel that they have an evil gun. Also, The first time they shoot it they will have a blast and be hooked.

YES! Excellent only gun for the un-gunly. +1

 

[dwarven1]

if they only get thier FID: the old standby, the 12 gauge pump gun is a solid choice. cheap to buy. cheap to feed, and most importantly cheap to practice with. this gun would be a very solid choice for a general bug out with in anything up to war conditions. plenty to defend your family and food/gas suply

Allow me to disagree with you here, please. I don't think that a 12 ga is a good idea for non-gunnies for the simple reason that it kicks like a bitch. IF Mikey has any hope of eventually turning these people to the Light side (gun ownership), he might want to recommend something that their first memory of is NOT about punishing recoil. A 20 gauge might be a better choice.

a second choice would be the SKS. almost as cheap to buy, just as cheap to practice with, and its a rifle. Rifles > shotguns

No argument here - its a very capable medium range rifle and will certainly discourage the average looter-goblin. Fairly cheap to feed, but it can certainly hit out to 300 meters accurately from what I hear.

the 3rd choice is the venerable lever gun. i feel this is the mid ground between the two. decent range, but light and handy. its only down side is its slightly higher initial price tag. .38/357, .44mag , or .45lc are all good options. .38/.357 gets my vote for cheaper, more readily available ammo with still plenty of power

Excellent idea, and one I wouldn't have thought of. But let's face it - the folks in their 40's (and older) will take ONE look at a lever gun and be thinking of Chuck Connors playing Lucas McCain, The Rifleman. Always a good idea to invoke happy childhood memories... and in this case, memories that the guy with the lever action is a Good Guy. (Yeah, I know I'm being sneaky and psychological here. What's your point?)

if they are willing to get their LTC ( either class) then the options begin to expand to Pistols, Revolvers, Pistol Caliber Carbines, and full fledged auto loaders. this becomes more personal preference and wallet weight

Like, as another poster said, a good .357 wheelgun - possibly the most versatile handgun ever made. And, again, stoked with the proper ammo (.38 special), their first memory of shooting a gun won't be "Ouch!!".

A good Ruger 10/22 (or similar) is better then nothing in a SHTF situation. They can have thousands of rounds on hand and not feel that they have an evil gun. Also, The first time they shoot it they will have a blast and be hooked.

True... and a goblin probably isn't going to try and get close enough to go "Oh, that's only a .22; I'm not scared of that!". He'll see "Rifle!!" and boogie. One would hope, anyway.

I would tell them to get a mosin, they are a cheap gun and milsurp ammo is also dirt cheap. The SKS is also a good choice, another one although a little more pricey I would say get a M1 carbine.

Not sure about the Mosin - again, recoil issues. Heck, I'm having a hard time keeping the recoil from yanking my finger off of the trigger when I fire off a shot from my new 91/30, and I'm not exactly a novice here. The M1 Carbine, though, is a good choice.

 

[dwarven1]

YES! Excellent only gun for the un-gunly. +1

*ahem* Why for the "un-gunly"? There are THREE of them sitting in my safe right now... and one of them is going to get sent to my niece, true... but I'm keeping at least two of them! They're excellent guns to practice marksmanship with while not breaking the bank doing so.

 

[P-14]

*ahem* Why for the "un-gunly"? There are THREE of them sitting in my safe right now... and one of them is going to get sent to my niece, true... but I'm keeping at least two of them! They're excellent guns to practice marksmanship with while not breaking the bank doing so.

Ross: Please re-read what I wrote.

"Only gun" meaning "only gun ever". "un-gunly" meaning those not interested in owning or using guns.

 

[Nickle]

3 good choices:

10/22 with a little tarting up. Scope, sling and a couple minor mods, plus a few extra mags suffuces.

SKS and a bunch of ammo on hand, along with stripper clips for tolerable reloading.

M1 Garand and a bunch of ammo and en-bloc clips.

Any of the above will work.

The SKS is accurate enough to use to 400 yards. Ask Fred (not Flotter), he's shot a Rifleman score with one.

The M1 will reach WAY out there.

After all of that, they need to get their butt to an Appleseed and learn how to shoot it well enough. Yes, we take them at all levels of ability, including those that have never shot before. We even have loaners to use, so they can learn first, buy after, which you will find is sound advice.

 

[dwarven1]

Ross: Please re-read what I wrote.

"Only gun" meaning "only gun ever". "un-gunly" meaning those not interested in owning or using guns.

Guess I didn't make myself clear enough - sorry. My point was that the 10/22 is good for EVERYONE - even if you have a safe full of long arms.

It's just a great gun, period. But yes, you are right, of course - if you only had one gun (or rifle), a 10/22 would be a good choice. Heck, you can even take deer with it... if you can make a headshot, of course.

 

[jar]

Good call on the M1 carbine if it's in the budget. It's light, handy, and easy to shoot.

re 12gauge vs 20gauge, 12Ga recoil is all a function of the load. 7/8oz at 1200 fps is 7/8oz at 1200fps. Felt recoil will actually be a little less in a 12Ga because it weighs a touch more. With 12Ga, you have farther to go up the ladder.

 

[TonyDedo]

Tell them to get a 12-gauge shotgun (Remington 870 or Mossberg 500) and a .357 magnum revolver (S&W 686). For personal defense and in SHTF scenarios, those are the only two firearms you should ever need. Enough said, case closed.

Call me a Negative Nancy, but I'm very skeptical of recommending an SKS, AK, AR, Garand, Mosin or any other military-type rifle to a non-gun person for a first/only/SHTF/defense firearm.

1 – I think you’re going to have trouble convincing a non-gun person (and me, for that matter) why they would ever likely need a high powered Main Battle Rifle or Carbine. With the exception of the most extreme SHTF scenarios (which I think you would have a hard time selling to the average non-gun person), name one scenario where a rifle would be required because a shotgun or revolver is insufficient. Unless we’re talking Red Dawn here, I don’t think it’s going to happen. Most people are worried about home invasion robberies, hurricanes or terrorist attacks – that’s the application.

2 - I think they’re too intimidating. The only exposure most people have to these types of weapons is war movies and the 10:00 news. Try to convince them they need a rifle they just saw being waved around the Gaza Strip.

3 - They’re overpowered for the application. Hell, the Mosin and Garand are overpowered even for most military and law enforcement uses.

4 – They’re too complicated. They may make sense to people like us, but do you want the Average Joe trying to load a Garand or un-jam an SKS?

5 – Most people aren’t going to be comfortable buying a used, 50+ year old piece of former military hardware. They’re perceived to be antiquated and unreliable (I know they’re not, but I’m talking about common perceptions).

I could go on, but I need to get back to work.

 

[Mikey]

Thanks for the opinions guys, after reading everything I think a 10/22 and/or SKS is what I will be suggesting from now on.

 

[nanerclip]

IMO, with an LTC, I'd say an AK variant of some sort for a rifle - it just simply doesn't get any more simple than an AK. And if you want greater accuracy... get one chambered in .223/5.56 or .308. As for a handgun, I'd say a SIG P229 or 226, or a revolver, if buying new, a 3" S/S Ruger GP-100. A 10/22 is useless in a defensive situation against humans or wildlife... and hunting, forget about it.

FID, without a doubt an SKS or Garand. A pump SG isn't a bad option as well, Rem 870 without a doubt.

 

[Prepper]

I agree the M1, SKS and other old rifles would be too confusing for them. If you did want to suggest a rifle other than the 10/22, I'd go with an AR15... pretty easy to figure out, easy to shoot. The price is the main reason I'd hesitate to recommend to a non-gun guy.

 

[Hoppy]

Average Joe trying to load a Garand or un-jam an SKS?

unjamming an SKS? "Average Ivan" did it for many years, then it was "Average Ming" "Average Deter" and "Average Aziz"

simplest way is
Step one. place buttock on ground. hold end of barrel.
Step two. point barrel away from self.
Step three. step down on charging handle

i dont think 12 guage would be an issue for a full grown adult male.

it may not be the first gun id have them fire, nor am i suggesting they simply buy it. if your advising some one to get a gun you need to go to the range with them, some of your guns (.22, Pistol caliber, intermediate) and TEACH TEACH TEACH

the rifles useless with out instruction. part of that includes getting them comfortable with the gun

 

[matt]

If they are really non gunnies... a very large can of pepper spray. They aren't going to get a liscense any way (class, cost, etc.). Once they get some pepper spray and get in the mindset of taking responsibility for thier own defense, then move onto getting them a gun. YMMV.

 

[mark056]

Tell them to get a 12-gauge shotgun (Remington 870 or Mossberg 500) and a .357 magnum revolver (S&W 686). For personal defense and in SHTF scenarios, those are the only two firearms you should ever need. Enough said, case closed.

1 – I think you’re going to have trouble convincing a non-gun person (and me, for that matter) why they would ever likely need a high powered Main Battle Rifle or Carbine. With the exception of the most extreme SHTF scenarios (which I think you would have a hard time selling to the average non-gun person), name one scenario where a rifle would be required because a shotgun or revolver is insufficient. Unless we’re talking Red Dawn here, I don’t think it’s going to happen. Most people are worried about home invasion robberies, hurricanes or terrorist attacks – that’s the application...

Tony,

No arguments from me regarding the first paragraph. I do think however, that an M1 Carbine would be a viable choice as it was never designed to be an infantry specialist's weapon. It was conceived as a pistol substitute for support troops who had duties that were not pricipally infantry. I don't know if you meant to include the M1 Carbine in your generalized statement or not.

Mark L.

 

[TonyDedo]

unjamming an SKS? "Average Ivan" did it for many years, then it was "Average Ming" "Average Deter" and "Average Aziz"

simplest way is
Step one. place buttock on ground. hold end of barrel.
Step two. point barrel away from self.
Step three. step down on charging handle

That's got to be up there among the DUMBEST f***ING THINGS I've ever heard. You're suggesting you take a loaded firearm and kick start it??? Brilliant - I sure hope you're not TEACHING anyone that technique.

Tony,

No arguments from me regarding the first paragraph. I do think however, that an M1 Carbine would be a viable choice as it was never designed to be an infantry specialist's weapon. It was conceived as a pistol substitute for support troops who had duties that were not pricipally infantry. I don't know if you meant to include the M1 Carbine in your generalized statement or not.

Mark L.

I think an M1 may be a little more appropriate than, say, a Mosin or a Garand, but I still think you’re going to run into most of the problems I listed. Tthe only exposure to the M1 Carbine that most non-gun people have is probably Band of Brothers and that famous picture of Malcolm X. You’re still dealing with an autoloader, which is subject to jams. And you’re still talking about a 60+ year old surplus rifle – how many non-gun people are going to feel comfortable with that?

And most importantly, no one has raised a convincing argument as to why you’d need a rifle (M1 Carbine or otherwise) and why a shotgun or revolver wouldn’t suffice.

 

[drumenigma]

I say apply the KISS method. (keep it simple stupid). For a non-gunnie they should have something simple to operate yet effective. So something like a mossberg 500 pump for a shotgun or an AK variant is what I would vouch for. For a pistol probably a revolver like the ones already suggested.

 

[economist]

I love Ruger for newbies. The 10/22 is a great gun for learning, plinking, and fun. The Mark III pistol is a nice choice for the same if they want a handgun. For self defense, the SP101 in .357 mag is solidly built, with typical revolver simplicity (my choice for a first defense gun for a new shooter). All are reasonably priced.

 

[dixidawg]

There is nothing more versatile than a 12ga. If I was forced to have only 1 gun, a 12 ga pump with various ammo would be it.

 

[Prepper]

A 12 gauge for someone who may have never fired a gun before? They might be too scared of it to ever use it. I'd start them with something less powerful.