Handgun a "BAD" idea for home defense???

Another thing about a little key safety lock device on the gun: under stress, you will likely discover you have lost so much muscle control that you can no longer get it unlocked. You may drop the key from having trouble holding onto it. You'll have trouble inserting the key into the little hole, whacking the key into the side of the gun several times completely missing the key hole.

I won't go into details, but one time I had to dial a cell phone while under great stress. First, I dropped the phone. Then I had trouble flipping it open. Once open, I missed numbers and had to close the phone, open it again and then very deliberately force myself to slow down and carefully attempt to press each number without missing. Messing with a gun safety lock under stress would be even worse.
 
-kj- said:
00 buck shot will wipe out half of my living room w/ just a simple point and shoot!?!?

That's the beauty of a shotty is that it's just point in the general direction and let off an angry swarm of balls, precise aiming is a non-issue.
Click to expand...
Wrong. Dead wrong.

There's trained and untrained. You are the latter.
 
**DRB** said:
So a general consensus is that the two handguns that I have identified as possible candidate may not be suitable based upon there extra "safety" features.
Click to expand...

You can buy an M&P in any caliber and in any barrel length without both the mag disconnect and the internal lock.

Both of mine (9 and 9c) are that way.
 
Prepper;722338]The S&W MP (9mm) is my go-to gun at home; don't discount it yet.
Click to expand...
]


Oh BOY!! I know I'm going to regret this but....... part of me really likes the idea of a 9mm ( as I said and you all know HOLY CRAP this is expensive!!! ) 9mm = cheaper to shoot = shot more = better proficiency. But on the other hand the .45 just seems to me ( a novice ) as more stopping power. I know, I know I've read some of the other posts..... ( enough to know not to call it " knock down power " )
 
9mm will be much cheaper for you and you will probably be more accurate. If you are already experienced with handguns and already know you can do well with a .40 or .45, then fine... as long as you don't mind the extra price. Otherwise, 9mm is worth considering.

Load the 9mm with hollow points... it'll have about a 90% rate of stop per good hit. If 90% isn't good enough, shoot him twice -- odds instantly become 99%.

Plus if overpenetration is an issue, larger caliber means more chance of that. Although, 9mm will penetrate that wall too so I'm not sure how important that is.
 
Jose said:
Wrong. Dead wrong.

There's trained and untrained. You are the latter.
Click to expand...

Oh... thanks friend!

Yes I was exagerating a bit.. but my living room is about 15x20. It wouldn't be very hard to hit something in that size area.


If I am untrained in that I haven't let off a round in my home, then you are correct. Aside from that... I know how to use a shot gun very well. Thank you for the nice comment though.
 
-kj- said:
Me: "hey criminal... can ya move over to the left... I don't wanna hit my new tv when I shoot you right now... wait... no, no, a little to the right, I don't wanna graze the new leather couch".
Click to expand...

I wasn't thinking about TV or furniture (I'd consider those as possible concealment). I was more thinking about the side of the house. I'd prefer not to have several dozen holes in the side of my house for everyone who drives by to see the little pinpoints of light shining through it at night. It is just embarrassing!
 
Prepper said:
I wasn't thinking about TV or furniture (I'd consider those as possible concealment). I was more thinking about the side of the house. I'd prefer not to have several dozen holes in the side of my house for everyone who drives by to see the little pinpoints of light shining through it at night. It is just embarrassing!
Click to expand...

I know man... I was just kidding around. [grin]
 
Prepper said:
I wasn't thinking about TV or furniture (I'd consider those as possible concealment). I was more thinking about the side of the house. I'd prefer not to have several dozen holes in the side of my house for everyone who drives by to see the little pinpoints of light shining through it at night. It is just embarrassing!
Click to expand...

Not as embarrassing as having your neighbors watch you get carried out on a gurney because you didn't use an appropriate weapon for HD.

SW1911 and Sig P220 are my HD guns of choice.
 
I almost forgot the cats! A shotgun would have more of a chance of including them in the collateral damage. I realize some here might consider that a good thing, but I won't go there... I love the little buggers. (I hope I didn't start another cat thread!)
 
Prepper said:
I almost forgot the cats! A shotgun would have more of a chance of including them in the collateral damage. I realize some here might consider that a good thing, but I won't go there... I love the little buggers. (I hope I didn't start another cat thread!)
Click to expand...

How big of a house do you have? Have you ever patterned a shotgun with 00buck at 25 yards? It's not as big of a spread as you may think
 
Jose said:
That seems to be so, but current research into terminal ballistics of hollow point handgun bullets proves it to be false.

Read here: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
Click to expand...

Doesn't the provided links show the opposite? That given that fact that all the rounds penetrate equally that the only way to do more damage is to make a bigger hole???
 
-kj- said:
00 buck shot will wipe out half of my living room w/ just a simple point and shoot!?!?

That's the beauty of a shotty is that it's just point in the general direction and let off an angry swarm of balls, precise aiming is a non-issue.

Remember the majority of home defence conflicts are within what is it... 10-20ft range at most? If you can't hit a person from that distance w/ a pistol grip shotty then maybe you really shouldn't have a gun in the house to begin with. *Not directing that at you personally BOBKATT, just generalizing.
Click to expand...

I have the same shotgun as the one in your picture but instead of a pistol grip, I use a Hogue short stock. It's a much better shooter than the version with the pistol grip - not just because it's quick to shoulder and get off an accurate shot, but also because the pistol grip part of the Hogue stock is at an angle that makes for more accurate and comfortable shooting when you don't have time to mount it.

Your advice is wrong however. Take your gun to the range sometime, shoot it at 15 ft, and measure the pattern. You'll see that the diameter of your angry swarm is much smaller than you think (it's about 1-1/2"). If you don't aim your shotgun, you are going to miss.

Also, 00 buckshot is too large for home defense where penetration through walls is a concern. I use #4 buck in my HD shotgun. It will still go through both sides of a sheetrock wall, but the wall removes enough energy to render the stray pellets nearly harmless. With #4, you get twenty seven .24" diameter pellets in a 2-3/4" shell.

To the OP - If you're worried about accidental discharge in a HD weapon, get a 4" .357 Magnum double action revolver.
 
Last edited:
-kj- said:
00 buck shot will wipe out half of my living room w/ just a simple point and shoot!?!?
Click to expand...

I understand that you may never have shot a shotgun before and that is okay, I hope you will enjoy it when you do decide to finally shoot one. But do not pay attention to the neanderthals that will fill your head with rediculousness like the statement that you have just made.

-kj- said:
That's the beauty of a shotty is that it's just point in the general direction and let off an angry swarm of balls, precise aiming is a non-issue.

Remember the majority of home defence conflicts are within what is it... 10-20ft range at most? If you can't hit a person from that distance w/ a pistol grip shotty then maybe you really shouldn't have a gun in the house to begin with. *Not directing that at you personally BOBKATT, just generalizing.
Click to expand...

Sir, you are severely misinformed and sound as though you have never shot a shotgun before. At 10 ft. 00 buck out of a cylinder bore barrel will pretty much make one ragged hole. At 20 ft. it might spread out to a few inches max. Please do not make this lavish claims without any experience or research.

-kj- said:
Yes I was exagerating a bit.. but my living room is about 15x20. It wouldn't be very hard to hit something in that size area.
.
Click to expand...

The day you go to the range and try to hit the bullseye at 20ft with your pistol grip shotgun you're going to realize just how hard it is. And then imagine yourself doing it, adrenaline flowing, heart racing, in the dark. Oh so you have the darkness factor figured out, and your going to put a light on your pistol grip? Good, not only can you not hit anything but now bad guy knows where you are, and he can hit you, and doesn't give to shits about over-penetration, or emptying his magazine in your house in the direction of your family behind those thin sheetrock walls of yours.

It's not the best setup. You don't have to take the advice, but stop giving others bad advice. And no I am not calling it bad advice because you are disagreeing with me on what the best tool is. It is bad advice and I am calling it so because you are misinformed and lying about the capabilities of the tool that you are recomending in a life and death situation.
 
Last edited:
-kj- said:
00 buck shot will wipe out half of my living room w/ just a simple point and shoot!?!?

That's the beauty of a shotty is that it's just point in the general direction and let off an angry swarm of balls, precise aiming is a non-issue.

Remember the majority of home defence conflicts are within what is it... 10-20ft range at most? If you can't hit a person from that distance w/ a pistol grip shotty then maybe you really shouldn't have a gun in the house to begin with. *Not directing that at you personally BOBKATT, just generalizing.


Another good plus of having a barrel mounted flashlight is that it will give you a pretty good idea of where the shot is going to go. (in the dark that is). You could always get a laser as well for daytime or both? Couldn't go wrong there.
Click to expand...


Shot guns aren't a claymore - if that were true duck hunting would be simple. Lot's of people have given you some good advice. Go to the range, go to a range where you can try shot guns and handguns and try before you buy. If you're not willing to practice regularly don't buy a gun - you're more dangerous to yourself and your family in that case.
 
**DRB** said:
Doesn't the provided links show the opposite? That given that fact that all the rounds penetrate equally that the only way to do more damage is to make a bigger hole???
Click to expand...

Look at the bullet expanded diameters between 9 mm and .45 caliber. You are putting waaaaaay too much faith in .1"

9 mm Luger allows you to:

1) buy more ammo for the same price, so you can train and practice more.

2) Have less recoil so you can learn faster to shoot better

3) Fit more ammo into a pistol

I have no .45 ACP pistols and don't plan on it.
 
Jose said:
Look at the bullet expanded diameters between 9 mm and .45 caliber. You are putting waaaaaay too much faith in .1"
Click to expand...

One thing that I was taught, which I think is a valuable lesson, was not to count on the reliability of expansion. Different variables such as barrel length and clothing can prevent a bullet from expanding. The lesson was to count only on the diameter of a bullet when it is not expanded. So then you take a look at the .45 vs. the 9mm and for my moneys worth I want to be slinging .45s at the bad guy.
 
Jose said:
Look at the bullet expanded diameters between 9 mm and .45 caliber. You are putting waaaaaay too much faith in .1"
Click to expand...

I'm only repeating what both that study and the govt study linked with that page stated...... isnt .1 huge when dealing with organs,arteries and organs??

In principal I agree with the argument that if I cannot be proficient with a specific caliber because of 1. lack of regular practice do to cost ect... or 2. do to a lack of control with the weapon due to weight or recoil that it negates any of a more powerful weapons ability. But given that weapon handling ability and practice are the same doesn't both those studies state that a larger round has a higher probability of stopping and attack faster?
 
**DRB** said:
I'm only repeating what both that study and the govt study linked with that page stated...... isnt .1 huge when dealing with organs,arteries and organs??

In principal I agree with the argument that if I cannot be proficient with a specific caliber because of 1. lack of regular practice do to cost ect... or 2. do to a lack of control with the weapon due to weight or recoil that it negates any of a more powerful weapons ability. But given that weapon handling ability and practice are the same doesn't both those studies state that a larger round has a higher probability of stopping and attack faster?
Click to expand...

[popcorn]

You've just opened the classic handgun argument. Big & slow vs. small and fast.
 
Bobkatt makes a good point - the sound of a racking shotgun should not enter the picture. The shotgun should be C1 long before the bad guy even hears it. Other than giving your position away, there's little evidence that a hardened criminal has pooped his britches from the sound of a racking 870. Any gun I use for home defense is ready to go the second I pick it up - no exceptions. As for wall penetration, it's a valid concern which can be alleviated some by training for proper shot placement. As to which would be the best fit for home defense - they both have their advantages and drawbacks. If I had my ultimate choice for HD, it would be a 7" AR-15 with an AAC over a Noveske and a 30rd mag full of TAP. However, I live in reality, so it's a 12ga primary, with a .45ACP and a .308 back-up if needed.....
 
I wouldn't want to be shot with anything. 9mm and 45 are both effective rounds in use with military forces as well as security forces around the globe. I own a couple 9's because my shot placement is better. And they carry more. I own a 45 that is with me everyday.

I also own a 12 gauge shottie. I hate it, it hurts to shoot, but I will tell you what, if I was hiding from a confirmed malevolent presence within my home I would be very happy for that abusive monster in my hands.

Answer to your question- buy all 3. Then trade the 40 off and get yourself a 9. [smile]

Al

And of course, a 357 6 inch k frame.
 
Last edited:
Handguns are much more maneuverable in a tight space.

If your living with your wife or GF then you have to factor in that they may need to use it for THEIR own defense if your not about or otherwise 'occupied'. A handgun like a 9mm is much easier for women, in general, is easier to handle/become proficient with than a 12ga shotgun.

As far as the .45 ACP vs. 9mm. I used to be a firm beleive in .45 ACP, but as of recently Personal Defense loads in 9mm can be seen as more lethal than a .45 ACP. Shot placement is everything, but in a personal defense situation that 1/8th of an inch should not come into play because you need to practice so ALL your shots are center mass.

Since the name of the game is first penetration THEN expansion you need to base it on that as opposed to 1/8" that the larger caliber can give you. What good is a nice large caliber if each shot throws off your point of aim?

When selecting should come down to these basic principles:
1. What can I afford to REALLY train and practice with. If you can't hit your target with a .45 ACP then that 1/8" inch means nothing.
2. Who else may need to use this gun in a LEGAL way to possibly defend me from an attacker? If you have a wife like mine and all you have is a 12 ga. for defense then hope your insurance is up to date and your family knows a good mortician because my wife is really to small to wield a shotgun that is set up for me.
3. What is the makeup of the dwelling?
 
Thanks Skald, I apologize for making this yet another post on caliber size and leathality..... But I do fully understand the proficiency with weapon idea. My point in bringing it up was only that in my house there is next to 0% possibility of a multi shot confrontation. I most likely will at most get 1 followup shot, and a shotgun is far to large ( lol I'm rather embarrassed to say but I just took out my beeman air rifle and walked thru the house, not gonna work. ) I guess what I will take away from all the bullet size talk is I need to find what round I'm most comfortable shooting.

once again I'm sorry for bringing this up as it was not my original intentions........ drb
 
Oh, and I will be the only one using the firearm as my wife has NO desire to use or learn ( still trying to get her to use the air rifle I've owned for 7 years )
 
economist said:
Just about any round that reliably penetrates enough to be effective defensively will penetrate several sheets of wallboard. Take a look at The Box O' Truth for examples. Bottom line: if you really end up shooting at someone, don't count on an interior wall to stop a decent defensive round, particularly if you miss. E...
Click to expand...

I was going to put the same thing only differently: If it isn't strong enough to go through a wall, it most likely isn't strong enough for self defense.

The advantage to a handgun is it is a little less cumbersome in tight quarters.
 
Shotgun is a better defensive weapon, no doubt. It's all about stopping power, and nothing stops like a shotgun. For CQB, there's nothing better.

A handgun is for when you have to:

1. Go out into the world and be concealed or
2. Run out of ammo for your long gun.

Just my bullshit opinion.
 

Similar threads

Hi vis target idea
2
Replies
32
Views
507
rewster
rewster
Lets Assume You Are Building a 6"-10" 458 Win Mag Handgun ...
2
Replies
57
Views
593
PatMcD
PatMcD
FFL for a return on a warranty claim?
Replies
28
Views
493
whacko
whacko
Daniel Defense - H9 Handgun
2
Replies
59
Views
2K
Lank
Lank
Californians Arming Up for Self-Defense as Illegals Flood into Cities
Replies
23
Views
526
mothybee
mothybee
Back
Top Bottom