Help diagnose 1911 problem

1903Collector

1903Collector

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Pistol is an RIA 10mm, brand new. I took it to the range for the first time yesterday and was very happy with it except for two issues. The pictures below show what is happening, always on the last round. Did some poking around last night and it sounds like an extractor issue, does that sound correct? I was shooting Sig 180gr FMJ and I only had one magazine, they only give you the one unfortunately. There were no other malfuctions in the cycling of the gun over the 100 rounds I fired, and it does launch the empties quite a distance away.
IMG_1201.jpg IMG_1203.jpg

The other issue is the slide stop, when the slide is locked back on either a full mag or no mag the slide stop won't drop down enough to allow the slide to snap forward when you pull it back and let it go, when I took it apart to clean it there is a little notch( for lack of a better word) on the face of the slide stop that mates with the plunger. I have a feeling that may be the issue there and I am going to take it back to the dealer this week but I though I would ask here first so I don't sound like a dumbass when I take it back.

Thanks
 
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interesting issue. i'm interested also cause this gun is on my radar. low cost alternative to a delta elite. i have a glock 20 10mm and yeah, mine throws the ejected empty case a freakin mile too. never seen your problem with any 1911 .45 i own for what it's worth, hope you get it sorted soon. sorry i can't shed any light on this for you.
 
I think the extractor is too loose. You can easily put a little more tension on it yourself.

Did you try moving the slide stop up/down with it installed in the frame but the slide off?
 
UNSUB said:
Is it always the last round or does it happen at other times?
Click to expand...
Always the last round, rounds 1-7 feed, extract, and eject with no problems

SJan said:
I think the extractor is too loose. You can easily put a little more tension on it yourself.

Did you try moving the slide stop up/down with it installed in the frame but the slide off?
Click to expand...
I did, same thing happens, it doesn't drop all the way down.
 
Does the gun have a recoil buffer installed? They have the effect of shortening the recoil stroke slightly which may be making it harder to eject the case. It can also keep you from being able to pull the slide back far enough to allow the cam for the slide stop to push it down after locking open.

Hope this helps,
Chad
 
Sounds like good advice from Sjan, but you say you only have 1 mag? You should own more than 1 mag regardless. Buy another and see if it does it with the new mag. Its more of a see if the lamp turns on did you plug it in situation. Before you get into armorer breakdowns or gunsmiths etc try basic solutions. If you don't know what the problem is turning to someone else who may bs you could be placing your trust in the wrong person. Also before you shot it at the range you should have totally broke it down and cleaned and lubed it yourself. Do that and try again. Finally call the maker and ask for a tweek the dealer may not be as informed as you think.

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk
 
UNSUB said:
Sounds like good advice from Sjan, but you say you only have 1 mag? You should own more than 1 mag regardless. Buy another and see if it does it with the new mag. Its more of a see if the lamp turns on did you plug it in situation. Before you get into armorer breakdowns or gunsmiths etc try basic solutions. If you don't know what the problem is turning to someone else who may bs you could be placing your trust in the wrong person. Also before you shot it at the range you should have totally broke it down and cleaned and lubed it yourself. Do that and try again. Finally call the maker and ask for a tweek the dealer may not be as informed as you think.

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Gun only comes with one mag, and before I dump a couple of hundred bucks on more mags from Tripp or Wilson I'm gonna make sure I'm keeping it. Gun was field stripped and cleaned thoroughly before being fired, I'm quite a few years from being a noob but I'm not a gunsmith either LOL.

- - - Updated - - -

mako_cc said:
Does the gun have a recoil buffer installed? They have the effect of shortening the recoil stroke slightly which may be making it harder to eject the case. It can also keep you from being able to pull the slide back far enough to allow the cam for the slide stop to push it down after locking open.

Hope this helps,
Chad
Click to expand...
No buffer.
 
greencobra said:
interesting issue. i'm interested also cause this gun is on my radar. low cost alternative to a delta elite. i have a glock 20 10mm and yeah, mine throws the ejected empty case a freakin mile too. never seen your problem with any 1911 .45 i own for what it's worth, hope you get it sorted soon. sorry i can't shed any light on this for you.
Click to expand...

100 rounds isn't a lot and despite these minor issues My first impression is still pretty positive. I'm not sure I like the grip panels, I mean they look great but the texture is very aggressive and on stiff recoiling loads they dig in real good.

- - - Updated - - -

UNSUB said:
Its cool I always assume people are the starter level that way they get the most info.

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

No problem, I didn't mean to sound like a dick. [laugh]
 
Here is a photo of a delta elite slide stop next to yours for reference. I don't think the notch in the face is the problem as that would interface with the plunger to help keep it down rather than up.



-Chad
 
If you remove the spring plug to release the tension and push the slide all the way back, does it look similar to this? The notch in the slide should cam the slide stop all the way down in the full back slide position.

-Chad

 
mako_cc said:
If you remove the spring plug to release the tension and push the slide all the way back, does it look similar to this? The notch in the slide should cam the slide stop all the way down in the full back slide position.

-Chad

Click to expand...


Maybe on to something, the picture is mine with no mag in and slide all the way back as far as it will go. The tab that engages the notch on the slide doesn't look as wide on mine as it does yours.
IMG_1215.jpg

Either that or the notch is in the wrong place?
 
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What does your spring guide rod look like? If it is too thick or not seating properly, it may be keeping the slide from going back all the way. That was my reasoning for asking about the guide rod buffer. Or maybe the spring channel in the slide is too long. Either one can limit the slide travel.

-Chad
 
mako_cc said:
What does your spring guide rod look like? If it is too thick or not seating properly, it may be keeping the slide from going back all the way. That was my reasoning for asking about the guide rod buffer. Or maybe the spring channel in the slide is too long. Either one can limit the slide travel.

-Chad
Click to expand...
I see, it's full length guide rod but the barrel is bushing-less, the guide rod and recoil spring come out together, you have to compress the spring and insert a pin in a hole in the guide rod to release the tension and the whole thing comes out together., there is a lot going on their so it could be something in that assembly.
 
I think the jammed brass on the last round is caused by the extractor not holding the brass properly. When there is still a round in the magazine, then the extracted brass drags over it. But when the magazine is empty, the spent brass can get caught on the feed lips.

This issue is well described in the article about the extractor test from modernserviceweapons.com.

http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=131

This article and the extractor test are both pretty controversial, but I think the information is on the mark. The authors of this article, Tim Lau and Hilton Yam, are really experts in the field.

I have seen this type of jam several times, and sometimes the brass can get very solidly jammed into the feed lips. As noted in the article, there can be enough force to damage the magazine.

Unless you really enjoy tinkering with 1911's, I recommend having the problem corrected by a professional. Retensioning the extractor is not difficult for someone who knows how to do it, but there is still a learning curve if you have not done it before. While the issues you have described may be easy to fix, I still think you would be justified in returning the pistol for warranty if you choose to do so.
 
If he final round is the issue, the extractor tension is too light. Without a round under it, the spent case falls off the extractor hook prior to making contact with the ejector. If you take a spent case and try to place it under the extractor with the slide off, does it hold in place? The slide stop looks to have MIM casting marks.
 
straightshooterjake said:
Unless you really enjoy tinkering with 1911's, I recommend having the problem corrected by a professional. Retensioning the extractor is not difficult for someone who knows how to do it, but there is still a learning curve if you have not done it before. While the issues you have described may be easy to fix, I still think you would be justified in returning the pistol for warranty if you choose to do so.
Click to expand...
Yea, I'm good with wood...not steel [laugh] If it was just the extractor I would probably take it too smith to fix, can't imagine it would cost all that much but the slide stop issue seems like it could be a more involved than I first thought so it's going back to the manufacturer.

Greg Derr said:
If he final round is the issue, the extractor tension is too light. Without a round under it, the spent case falls off the extractor hook prior to making contact with the ejector. If you take a spent case and try to place it under the extractor with the slide off, does it hold in place? The slide stop looks to have MIM casting marks.
Click to expand...
I'll try that tonight. MIM was my first thought when I saw the part up close, but after what Mako showed me in his pictures I think the problem with the stop is a little more involved that just that notch on the face of the part.
 
will probably get some input on 1911 forums.

i also own an RIA 10mm. mine had all sorts of issues with the slide lock prematurely engaging (with rounds still in mag). my experience is the pistol is markedly undersprung for full house 10mm loads.

your ejection problem there just looks like a stovepipe. i wouldn't fault the extractor for that. either the mag follower getting in the way or the gun just needs to break-in.

i've posted my issues WRT slide lock and properly tuning the gun here. there are whole threads dedicated to the RIA 10mm...

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?p=7406521&highlight=#post7406521

FWIW Rock Island - Armscor has good CS. i wouldn't waste your time with the dealer just let Armscor give you a shipping label and have them fix it.
 
So, on the advise of a local smith I bought some new mags (Wilsons) and tried a different ammo. No more stove pipes and the slide stop issue seems to be clearing up as well. So maybe it needed more break in? It goes against all my experiences because all my other 1911s have been 100% right out of the box including my AO 1911A1. Patience is not a virtue I was blessed with [laugh]
 
So another update, I noticed something today while cleaning the gun. When the slide is reassembled the guide rod/ spring assembly is canted downward just slightly, there is no lip or flat spot at the base of the barrel lug for the guide rod to seat against. Is't ever so slightly concave and under spring pressure rides up the barrel lug. If i apply some good finger pressure is snaps back up parallel with the barrel and slightly forward. I think this is why I the slide won't fully retract to completely disengage the slide stop on a full/no mag situation.
 
greencobra said:
Interesting thread and problem, keep us updated on your troubleshooting and progress. Good luck.
Click to expand...

DPR said:
This has been posted elsewhere, how to fix 1911 problems.
Click to expand...


Waiting for a return label from Asrmscor, I have already put enough time into this. I've heard there CS is good....we'll find out.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
1903Collector said:
So another update, I noticed something today while cleaning the gun. When the slide is reassembled the guide rod/ spring assembly is canted downward just slightly, there is no lip or flat spot at the base of the barrel lug for the guide rod to seat against. Is't ever so slightly concave and under spring pressure rides up the barrel lug. If i apply some good finger pressure is snaps back up parallel with the barrel and slightly forward. I think this is why I the slide won't fully retract to completely disengage the slide stop on a full/no mag situation.
Click to expand...

The guide rod sits against the frame, not the barrel when assembled
To check if you are getting full slide travel, Put the gun together without the recoil spring. See how far the slide goes back. Put the spring in, check again. it should be the same distance. Or take the guide rod out and with the spring on the guide rod, see if the guide plug will go all the way to the guide rod head before the spring goes solid. If it doesn't, cut the spring.

The FTE looks like a extractor tension issue. Fire one shot without the mag in the gun. If the ejection is different then when it has a mag with rounds in, the add tension until it is the same
 
Supermoto said:
The guide rod sits against the frame, not the barrel when assembled
To check if you are getting full slide travel, Put the gun together without the recoil spring. See how far the slide goes back. Put the spring in, check again. it should be the same distance. Or take the guide rod out and with the spring on the guide rod, see if the guide plug will go all the way to the guide rod head before the spring goes solid. If it doesn't, cut the spring.

The FTE looks like a extractor tension issue. Fire one shot without the mag in the gun. If the ejection is different then when it has a mag with rounds in, the add tension until it is the same
Click to expand...

I did try this with just the slide, no barrel or guide rod assembly, and when I checked the slide travel it was normal. What I mean by that is it's traveled back far enough to completely disengage the slide stop, just like all my other 1911s do. Does that make sense? I think I understand what your saying is that the spring may be to long? I don't want to alter anything and take a chance on voiding the warrantee. While I'm waiting for the return label to come I'll try and snap a few more pics and maybe that can shed some more light.

I'm just keeping this going as it may help someone else in the future.
 

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