Help! SW1911 Breakage...

[CLICCO]

Hi,

So, a couple of months ago, I picked up an SW1911 Gunsite edition. I've put about 500 rounds through it and was pleased with it right up until today. Let me preface this by saying that I take very good care of all of my firearms and give them a thorough cleaning after each range session.

Today, I brought my 1911 to the range and had fired about 50 rounds when suddenly, the slide would lock back after every round fired, despite there still being rounds in the magazine. I ejected the magazine and benched it to perform an inspection. Upon inspection a piece literally fell off of the frame.

I do not know exactly what the part is called, but it is a metal bar, about one inch long, and appears to have been fastened to the frame via two metal bolts/plugs, which appear to have just sheared-off. This metal bar resides directly between the thumb safety and the slide release lever. Has anyone else ever experienced this type of problem with an SW1911 or any other 1911? Is this common with SW1911s? What is the cause? Is this just a case of poor manufacturing or could it be something that I did/did not do?

I plan to contact Smith and Wesson customer support tomorrow, but in the mean time, any help/insight is appreciated.

 

[Cross-X]

S&W will send you a call tag and take care of you and your gun. I have no idea what the part you are referring to is called.

 

[Admin]

S&W will take care of your problem. Just let us know what it was when you get the gun back.

 

[BOBKATT]

Sounds like the plunger tube. Never had a problem with mine.

Take a look at this diagram and let me know what part it is.

http://gunbuilders.info/index.php?page=diagram

 

[Lugnut]

Safety spring tube? It's a press fit. S&W will take care of it.

 

[EddieCoyle]

It's the plunger tube. It contains the springs and plungers that act as detents for both the safety lever and slide lock. You're not the first one that's had this problem.

Send it back to S&W and they'll fix it.

 

[HOPHEAD]

The plunger tube is a common breakage item on the SW1911s. I had the same thing happen to one of mine. I brought it to Dave Santurri and he installed a new one while I waited. It was money well spent as opposed to having to send the gun off to Smith & Wesson.

 

[Twigg]

Seems this is becoming more common lately.

 

[Supermoto]

Like everyone said, it sounds like the plunger tube, mine broke at about 20K, took it to Greg Derr, took him a few minutes to put in another, much easier than sending it to SW and waiting.

 

[Scrivener]

Seems this is becoming more common lately.

It is indeed the plunger tube and it is a fairly common failing on common 1911's.

It is also why that part is integral on SVI frames, being machined out of the same block as the rest of the frame. Ergo, nothing to fall off.

Then again, for what an SVI costs, there'd better NOT be anything just falling off!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The plunger tube is generally a staked on part because, absent the plunger tube, the two sides of the 1991 frame (without grip screw busings installed) are totaly flat, simplifying the manufacture and finishing of the gun.

Traditional 1911 grips actually come up and go over the plunger tube to hold it in place in case the staked connection gives way.

This part is cheap, easily replaced, and should be a "while you wait" repair if you gunsmith has the part in stock. The only tricky thing about the installation is that a special "plunger tube staking" tool is used (I can think of three totally different variations on this tool that are available). This special tool is the main reason that this is not a do it yourself repair (unless, of course, you order the tool).

 

[CLICCO]

Thanks

Thanks for the responses everyone. The part is indeed the plunger tube. This breakage doesn't exactly instill confidence in this pistol...especially considering:
1. That this breakage is such a common one among 1911s - I bought a 1911 in-part for the legendary ruggedness and reliability; and
2. That this breakage occurred after only about 550 rounds out of a new, well-maintained pistol

 

[Scrivener]

Ah - You've learned the "Secret of MIM!"

You DO realize we have an Equipment thread precisely for posts such as yours, don't you?

 

[depicts]

That's one of the reasons I like old handguns. No MIM parts.

 

[Lugnut]

I wouldn't worry about it. I've had problems with Sigs, Glocks and S&Ws. For the money they are a great 1911 IMO. However, I personally wouldn't say that the 1911s are the most reliable guns you can get these days. If you wanted that- a Glock is the way to go.

Thanks for the responses everyone. The part is indeed the plunger tube. This breakage doesn't exactly instill confidence in this pistol...especially considering:
1. That this breakage is such a common one among 1911s - I bought a 1911 in-part for the legendary ruggedness and reliability; and
2. That this breakage occurred after only about 550 rounds out of a new, well-maintained pistol

 

[EddieCoyle]

Ah - You've learned the "Secret of MIM!"

That's one of the reasons I like old handguns. No MIM parts.

Cool! Two new members for the "We don't get it" club.

Gentlemen, do you research and understand the process before you badmouth Metal Injection Molding. When properly done, MIM parts are (much) stronger than forged. For example, Ferrari switched from forged to MIM connecting rods for their racing engines.

Arm yourselves with knowledge then come back and debate.

Praeg, as far as this goes:

2. That this breakage occurred after only about 550 rounds out of a new, well-maintained pistol

Shit happens. It would've even if the pistol was dirty. Cleaning is over rated.

 

[Jay G]

...

 

[Scrivener]

Cool! Two new members for the "We don't get it" club.

Gentlemen, do you research and understand the process before you badmouth Metal Injection Molding. When properly done, MIM parts are (much) stronger than forged. For example, Ferrari switched from forged to MIM connecting rods for their racing engines.

The key phrase being "when properly done."

I have no doubt that Ferrari, with its state-of-the-art, cutting-edge technology, does indeed make MIM parts that are "properly done."

S&W makes fine guns, but hardly a Ferrari equivalent.

When wings start falling off Enzos at speed, we'll talk.

 

[drgrant]

Gentlemen, do you research and understand the process before you badmouth Metal Injection Molding. When properly done, MIM parts are (much) stronger than forged. For example, Ferrari switched from forged to MIM connecting rods for their racing engines.

I agree with this, the thing is, the S+W plunger tubes have been dropping like flies lately, so there is some kind of endemic defect with the things at
play, IMO. I think S+W is getting bad batches of the things. If it is a "MiM" issue its because the vendor that makes the things isn't doing their
job right. I've seen plenty of 1911s die on the line and it seems like whenever a plunger tube falls off there's an SW1911 underneath it. I've
been a victim of several 1911 part failures but never had an issue with a plunger tube, save for one incident where a gunsmith didn't fit a safety
on the gun correctly.

-Mike

 

[EddieCoyle]

The key phrase being "when properly done."

I have no doubt that Ferrari, with its state-of-the-art, cutting-edge technology, does indeed make MIM parts that are "properly done."

S&W makes fine guns, but hardly a Ferrari equivalent.

When wings start falling off Enzos at speed, we'll talk.

Ferrari makes virtually none of their own parts. The same people that take care of Enzo take care of S&W. His failure has exactly nothing to do with the fact that some parts are made using MIM.

 

[BOBKATT]

His failure has exactly nothing to do with the fact that some parts are made using MIM.

So what is the problem and what is the cure here? I've got a SW1911 that I depend on for purposes that I hope I never have to find out just how reliable that plunger tube is.

 

[Gammon]

I agree that this is a plunger tube failure but disagree that this is a common failure in 1911s. I own about a dozen 1911s and had a problem with one plunger tube in 30 years. If S&Ws are having problems in this area, perhaps a better form of attaching the tube should be used. Pachmayr makes a device called a "mud flap" that replaces the plunger tube and can be installed by the owner as it is retained by the left grip panel. This part is quite visible (part of it is a shield that prevents the thumb from contacting the slide) and may not be visually acceptable to everyone. A second solution is a plunger tube that is attached to the frame with screws rather than staking. This cure requires drilling and tapping two small holes and is best left to a gunsmith.

For those of you with staked plunger tubes who worry about reliability, you can use grips that support the tube. Stock Colt grips can support the tube, but the fit varies from gun to gun. If your grips don't contact the tube for support, you can add a little epoxy to the inner part of the grip where it contacts the tube and then fit the grip to the tube for contact and support.

 

[Scrivener]

Ferrari makes virtually none of their own parts. The same people that take care of Enzo take care of S&W.

Really?

So that state-of-the art casting plant pouring the patented alloy we all saw on Ultimate Factories was a clever Italian illusion? As were the parts produced thereby?

It strains credulity.....

 

[EddieCoyle]

Really?

So that state-of-the art casting plant pouring the patented alloy we all saw on Ultimate Factories was a clever Italian illusion? As were the parts produced thereby?

It strains credulity.....

I must've missed that. Was it a Ferrari-owned factory?

 

[Scrivener]

I must've missed that. Was it a Ferrari-owned factory?

It most certainly was.

As in Modena. Where Ferrari has always been.

Complete with the full test track on site.

And a casting plant that looks like the Crystal Palace, complete with full-grown TREES growing in it.

Yes, the people like the trees, but the greenery is really there to provide the ambient humidity the casting alloy apparently prefers.

You can probably catch it in re-runs, usually as part of a trio (w/Corvette and BMW).

Mama, MIMa!

 

[EddieCoyle]

I'll look for it. Casting is not MIM though.

 

[Fixxah]

GROUP BUY SVI?

 

[ephemeratta]

I say replace everything with Ed Brown or C&S parts. Forget S&W, I'd give Greg Derr a call.

 

[JimB]

me too

I picked a new S&W 1911 on saturday may 24th, shot 20 rounds at my
range, cleaned it, took it to the Worcester IDPA match. Got about 30 rounds
off and a MAJOR jam. It fired and came back to extract the spent round
and froze. Finally got it apart, the spent casing was in good shape, not
bulged, not split.

Reassembly is the problem, you can reassemble the slide parts, put the
slide on, etc. but once assembled it will not rack or go forward.

The call tag from S&W is on the way...

JimB

 

[O/U]

I was seriously considering purchasing a S&W 1911 for my first automatic. I'm now reconsidering after reading this thread.