help with GF shooting

twinbrook86

twinbrook86

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my gf is interested in shooting, and when we go sometimes she will hit the target like 8 out of 10 times, and others its once out of 40 times, i put a laser on the bottom of a walther p22, more for me so i can she where shes aiming(it is aligned) we are shooting at 30 feet. safety wise she does a great job, but gets frustrated when she misses 30 shots in a row, and tips, pointers and suggestions,
 
Has she been taught proper grip, sight alignment, sight picture, etc? Does she group at all or is she all over the place? If she does group where does she hit? With a little more info it should be prettyeasy to fix her problem/s.

Dave
 
I would move the target to 15 feet until she can consistently group at that distance, then move it out little by little.

An NRA Basic Pistol Course would also teach her some fundamentals that may help.

-Rick
 
vellnueve said:
I wouldn't use a laser until she has good fundamentals.
Click to expand...

I would keep using the laser, the laser will tell you exactly what the gun is doing, you really can't get better feedback than that. If she is flinching or influencing the gun, you will see it will the laser.

How are you for a shooter? do you know what to look for? you know the proper grip and stance, smooth trigger pull etc?

She is more than likely flinching, have her double up on ears and more the target in
 
Whew! Your post title scared me a bit but now I understand! [rolleyes]

I'm of a mind that literally anyone can be taught to shoot correctly if they are willing to accept proper instruction. I've even taken my blind nephew to the range and had him on paper at 21' with simple muscle memory. So, a sighted person can be taught to shoot accurately. It's a matter of the instructor being able to eliminate as many variables as possible and identify problems. First, you've got to eliminate the variables.

I'll assume you have checked to see what dominant eye she has and that you've made sure that her stance is proper, leaning a little forward, feet spread appropriately to help her maintain her balance and a proper grip on your pistol. Not a death grip but not too loose, either with a proper grip hold, too.

First of all, I'd have the target no further than 21', not 30'. The potential to miss become greater every foot from 21'. I know that doesnt' sound like a lot but where you're trying to fix a problem with aim, getting the target closer helps. Truthfully, if she still has a problem at 21' move the target to 15 feet and work with that. The goal here is to help her build her confidence and to see where her shots are going. It'll be almost impossible to be off the paper so close up. If she can become used to sighting the target close up, she'll be able to repeat it further and further out with more confidence.

Second, don't put up a target at all. Rather put up a large sheet of paper (like 24 x 36") and simply draw a large "X" on it. That helps to see where the rounds are hitting and removes the pressure of scoring. Hopefully you'll see a pattern emerge, too.

Third, that Walther P22 should have a pretty good trigger squeeze and control the recoil pretty well (after all it's only a .22) so the gun, itself, seems fine. I wouldn't rely on the laser, however, and would suggest that you turn it off as it's a disctraction. Rely on iron sites. Have her load and shoot only five rounds, telling her to aim at the center of the 'X' on the paper. At that close range that should be easy so Let's see where her groups go. I assume you've told her to set up the sites so that the front sight becomes the fence post and the target is the pumpkin on the fencepost and to concentrate primarily on the front sight, too.

Finally, some of the problems may be due to where her finger is being placed on the trigger. I've seen more bad habits fixed by that alone. Make sure she is placing the pad of her index finger squarely on the trigger and pulling straight back each and every time. If you have to, draw a line on her finger so she knows where it should go. Putting her finger too far in to out will either pull or push the handgun every time and if she is moving it back and forth that one bad habit could be causing wild shot. Pulling straight back will help maintain a straight pistol with positive, repeatable results. Have her dry-fire as you watch where the muzzle goes when she pulls the trigger.

I'll also add to tell her to memorize where she's placing her shots. Concentrate on each shot as she fires it remembering where the front site was placed. That way when she does hit close to the "X", you can tell her to repeat that same shot again using the same aiming techniques. Once you begin to get a grouping, you'll be able to determine what other minor corrective suggestions to try. ANY grouping will be an advantage here. When there is NO grouping of any kind, that's when it's difficult to fix because there are too many variables happening and you've got to start over again.

Good luck with that! Make sure she's having fun, too!! If it's not fun then she won't want to go again. Above all, don't be critical.....unless you want to go home alone. BE supportive an complimentary when she puts up a great shot. Even if she belittles herself saying things like "I'm not good at this" and the like, be encouraging.

Rome
 
unforutely we shoot at MRA so 30 ft is the MIN, inside, so until its out of the single digits,

the laser is more for me, and she knows this, since i cant look down the sight at the same time as her, she says that her sight pic is right with, the three dots making a striaght line, from the front and rear sight, i even drew a pic of it and she says yes thats what i see, but the laser sometimes is dead on or 15 inches to the left and low or right or whatever,

shes got a good correct grip on the thing,

she actually BEFUDDLES ME, never used the word seems to fit here,

cant figures it out at all and dont want her to lose interest.
 
Are you starting her on a light caliber, such as 22lr....or are you having her try to start out on a large caliber 40sw or 45acp ?

Perhaps get a air pistol, set up a pellet trap in basement, and work on fundamentals first.

Get some of the "shoot-n-see" targets...provide immediate feedback when the black target gets the bright green or orange splotch where the bullet hits...rather than having to walk up to the target afterwards to see where the shots were going.

I agree on the advice to move the target up close to 15 feet.
 
i got her shooting a walther p22 22lr with shoot n see targets, my junky airpistol has more kick then the walther, the p22 is good for her with her little hands it fits perfect
 
Personally, I've always started people off shooting with a small rifle, like a 10/22. And even if she knows how to shoot, she would get much better success hitting something if she was looking through a scope (even if it is only ~30ft). It teaches how to hold yourself steady and remain on target. Then gradually move the target back.

Usually only after people have learned the ropes with a scoped 10/22 do I give them a pistol to try. However, if she is already shooting your P22 and likes it and can hold a sight picture, I suggest finding a place where you can put the target at 10 feet. Perhaps visiting another club.

If you want to take a drive out to the country, Harvard's indoor range lets you basically shoot point blank. PM me if interested.
 
twinbrook86 said:
she says that her sight pic is right with, the three dots making a striaght line, from the front and rear sight, i even drew a pic of it and she says yes thats what i see, but the laser sometimes is dead on or 15 inches to the left and low or right or whatever,
Click to expand...

Two thoughts:

Are you (and she) absolutely sure she's focusing on the front sight and maintaining that focus through the shot? If she really has the sights aligned properly I agree it seems impossible that the laser dot could be all over the place as you describe.

Have you tried the old "ball and dummy" drill to make sure she doesn't have a bad flinch?
 
thanks for the invite, i might head up to manchester, my uncle lives almost next door, there min distance is like 2 feet , any one know whens its the best time to go, as in least amount of people, last time a dude was shooting the m60 and it probabbly scare her away
 
#1, melt down the P22 (personal opinion, I think they're of poor quality.

#2, my reason for saying take away the laser is that if you don't have good fundamentals, especially on the trigger pull, it doesn't matter how steady you have the gun before the shot because you'll still be off. I'd rather be focusing on her hands and trigger pull rather than the laser.
 
I have a tool I use when teaching the sight usage to beginners that might help you.

Find a cardboard tube and use cardboard sheets to put a front and rear sight on the tube. Christmas wrapping paper tubes are great at 30 inches or so. Cover one end with a flap and then have the sudent use the sights to aim at an object. Then open the flap and look down the tube to see the bore picture.

I have also used this in a photo tripod to keep it stable while using it as a teaching aid.

Might be worth a try at home for some practice off the range.

-Rick
 
Find a professional instructor, or instructor-led classes - some of the folks on this forum either do it or have the lead for one.

It takes the pressure off of both of you...
 
thanks guys ill take it all in

for other guns any suggestions, the p22 is not my favorite by anymeans
but size wise for her couldnt be a better match, something in that range would be kickass
 
scouter-rick said:
I would move the target to 15 feet until she can consistently group at that distance, then move it out little by little.

An NRA Basic Pistol Course would also teach her some fundamentals that may help.

-Rick
Click to expand...

I was going to say the same thing.

10 yards is far when you are shaky.
 
Supermoto said:
I would keep using the laser, the laser will tell you exactly what the gun is doing, you really can't get better feedback than that. If she is flinching or influencing the gun, you will see it will the laser.

How are you for a shooter? do you know what to look for? you know the proper grip and stance, smooth trigger pull etc?

She is more than likely flinching, have her double up on ears and more the target in
Click to expand...


COMPLETELY disagree.

Using the laser when she's just starting will get her into horrible habits (and could even be the reason why she's missing so often). Mentally, you try to force your shots to a particular area rather than relying on your sights and letting everything flow naturally. Until you've developed the ability to get a group in one place, adding a laser is just going to push her shots even further off paper...
 
the laser in relatively new for me see see whats she is aiming at, she isnt using it, and sometimes she says it lines up and sometimes its on another planet !?! but she isnt using it soley to hit paper

the laser is for me to see what the end of the barrel is pointed at
 
ShorteyGirley said:
COMPLETELY disagree.

Using the laser when she's just starting will get her into horrible habits (and could even be the reason why she's missing so often). Mentally, you try to force your shots to a particular area rather than relying on your sights and letting everything flow naturally. Until you've developed the ability to get a group in one place, adding a laser is just going to push her shots even further off paper...
Click to expand...

The laser is as much for the teacher as it is the student. Used intermittently as just a tool it can help determine what is going for the teacher. It is a diagnostic tool not a crutch.

In fact, I wish I had used one when I was teaching Supermoto how to shoot.
 
GTOShootr said:
The laser is as much for the teacher as it is the student. Used intermittently as just a tool it can help determine what is going for the teacher. It is a diagnostic tool not a crutch.

In fact, I wish I had used one when I was teaching Supermoto how to shoot.
Click to expand...

And your teachings on how to avoid targets stand was excellent.... I have yet to trip over one, how about you? [wink]
 
My gf has trouble hitting the side of a barn with pistols. I've learned one thing though: don't coach your gf in shooting!! It always ends up that I'm being bossy, and that I think I know everything etc etc. She always says she just needs more practice but its really that she has to do it right. Get someone else to train her!

On the other hand she can somehow out-shoot me with my mauser. [crying]
 
Have you tried having her dry fire? Dry firing with the laser can be a big help. You can see exactly what she's doing. Dry fire with a crimson trace grip improved my groups with a j-frame immensely in about 10 minutes.
 
It's been my experience that women, especially non-shooter, usually do pretty well with a .22 and some instruction that doesn't terrify them. Most of these have been mentioned by others but they're worth repearting. I'd try the following:

1) Definitely a .22 rifle. it removes some potential shooting problems.
2) Have someone she feels comfortable besides you give her some instruction.
3) Thirty feet is too far. Tryto mitigate this by using the biggest piece of paper with no target on it you can find to start, and ask her to shoot toward the center.
 
Whatever you do, try to take the pressure off of hitting the target. As was suggested above, a large 24x36 piece of cardboard or paper with a big X in the center would almost guarantee that she hits it every time and should make it less frustrating. It is tough to tell what you are doing wrong when you don't even know where the bullet went.

Tell her to aim for the center on every shot and eventually you'll find what she's doing wrong.

Keep the magazine downloaded to around 4-5 rounds to give her arms a rest.

Just keep it fun and she'll keep going with you!
 

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