High end 1911, worth the money?

[M1911]

My advice is buy a Springfield Trp. For the money, the best out there.

I have a Springfield. A friend of mine bought a Springfield new and had it worked over by their custom shop. All I can say is "meh."

My Springfield had their two-piece barrel, which was very inaccurate. I had to have it replaced to get any accuracy out of the gun. My friend's gun looked beautiful after their custom shop got done with it, but there was noticeable movement when you pushed down on the barrel hood and it wasn't accurate.

My sample size is small, but I'm thoroughly unimpressed with the two that I've seen.

 

[Jrjr]

A trp?

 

[M1911]

A trp?

1) No 1911 should have left the factory with that kind of movement in the barrel.

2) The custom shop never should have let a gun leave their shop with that kind of movement in the barrel, especially after doing over $700 in custom work on the gun.

I've never seen that kind of movement in a 1911 barrel, and I've owned or shot Colts, Kimbers, Wilsons, ParaOrdnance, S&W, Ruger. It is completely inexcusable, even on a base gun.

 

[SalemCat]

John Browning > Thomas Edison

 

[Jrjr]

Agreed.

Like you stated earlier though, very small sample size. That sucks you've had such a bad experience with them.

I've owned 5 springers with only one being a problem.

A pro, 3 trp's and a full rail operator with the model number PX9105L. The pro and the 3 trp's were all ridiculously perfect. Still have the pro and one of the trp's. Shoot the crap out of them.

Now, the PX9105 had some issues. It has the NM prefix on the serial # indicating a US assembly. The NM prefix is a bit more sought after due to the belief that its assembly here in the US equals better quality. For the most part, it seems true.

So, back to my operator, thing was a dog. Brought it to Lou at business end to alleviate the reliability issue and for some custom work. Lou showed me the machining issues it was horrible. Ugly. He put a ton of work into it and cleaned it up, fit everything, etc. Runs great now, but man, for the factory to let that thing out into the public, not good.

The only thing i can think of is for the amount of stuff coming out of there, things slip through the cracks. And for something to come out of their custom shop with issues, that is horrible. But, not unheard of. The good thing is, you send it back to them and from every experience i have heard that mimics your friends, SACS has stepped up to the plate and made it right.

All manufacturers and even the big custom guys have the occasional hiccup. The key is the customer service and i have never heard anything bad about springer's customer service.

 

[Karl]

Does Springfield make anything in a 4.25" barrel?

 

[ivarr]

Does Springfield make anything in a 4.25" barrel?

used to make the " champion " 4".
don't think they still do though

 

[Supermoto]

For a range or carry 1911, Custom really doesn't get you much. It might feel smoother, be tighter, more accurate and look better. But are those benefits you will notice while shooting? Most people get customs for every reason but shooting

The really benefit of a properly built custom is when you start putting 10s of thousand of rounds through it, the gun will still lock up tight and be accurate when a factory gun has bashed itself apart.

 

[seanc]

Yes they are "worth" the money.

That said.. Are you "worth" the gun.

Meaning what is it that you want to get out of a "high end" 1911 that you are not getting out of what you have now? Are you out shooting your standard 1911 and need something to keep up with your skills?

Because "you want it" and can afford it. That IS a completely reasonable answer here. Just look at what it is that you want out of a "high end" that you don't have now. Again, because I want it is completely reasonable. But you just need to assess the "why" aspect to determine "worth".

The other aspect to consider.. Everything that makes a gun more accurate, more fast, more whatever, generally makes it LESS reliable. Less accepting of all ammo, more fussy about mags, etc.

 

[SalemCat]

Collectibles are worth whatever the market will bear.

You can Target Shoot or Defend Yourself with far less of a machine.

Not saying they aren't worth it. If they give you joy, buy them.

I'm a Collector. I buy things of no use whatever. I just like them.

 

[Supermoto]

The other aspect to consider.. Everything that makes a gun more accurate, more fast, more whatever, generally makes it LESS reliable. Less accepting of all ammo, more fussy about mags, etc.

Not true

 

[Greg Derr]

I guess I should chime in. For most folks a custom pistol is the culmination of years of shooting and a combination of all the features that THEY like. Fit and finish is far better than production guns, and yes hoot shoot and function better if built right. In my shop the client gets all the pieces they want, and a person,Me, to back up the final product. Wilson, Ed BrowN are great, but you typically get what they give you for features. Not always what you want. Just my 2cents.

 

[Gammon]

For a range or carry 1911, Custom really doesn't get you much. It might feel smoother, be tighter, more accurate and look better. But are those benefits you will notice while shooting? Most people get customs for every reason but shooting

The really benefit of a properly built custom is when you start putting 10s of thousand of rounds through it, the gun will still lock up tight and be accurate when a factory gun has bashed itself apart.

I agree, sort of. When I began shooting IPSC many years ago I used basically stock pistols. They would loosen up quite a bit after heavy use becaused they weren't custom fitted, but they never bashed themselves apart. This was with the old major power factor (170 US/175 the rest of the world).

I also learned a valuable lesson. Tightly fitted guns are nice, but the loose ones can deliver more than adequate accuracy. I still have these old "war horse" 45s and they still shoot just fine. The only real problem I ever had with Series 70 Colts was the regular loss of the high visibility (Gold Cup style) front sight. The narrow tenon was simply not stong enough retain it, even when silver soldered.

 

[seanc]

Not true

I am not sure how you figure..
A "standard" GI gun, is a (somewhat) loose, rattling gun. As such, it feeds anything and shoots everything the consequence of this is that it is not (by super tuned standards) accurate.

examples..
Super tune up the chamber to (super) match standards, and many times cheap ammo (surplus/ WWB for example) has loading issues.
Super tune the feed ramp to say wad cutters, and hollow points or ball gets jammed up.
Tune the springs to a specific (hot) ammo specs, and then light loads won't cycle reliably..

Everything is a trade off. The tighter you tailor the gun to achieve accuracy, or to achieve a specific function (a 1911 wadcutter tends to be good examples here) the more sensitive a gun becomes to variables.

 

[Supermoto]

I am not sure how you figure..
A "standard" GI gun, is a (somewhat) loose, rattling gun. As such, it feeds anything and shoots everything the consequence of this is that it is not (by super tuned standards) accurate.

examples..
Super tune up the chamber to (super) match standards, and many times cheap ammo (surplus/ WWB for example) has loading issues.
Super tune the feed ramp to say wad cutters, and hollow points or ball gets jammed up.
Tune the springs to a specific (hot) ammo specs, and then light loads won't cycle reliably..

Everything is a trade off. The tighter you tailor the gun to achieve accuracy, or to achieve a specific function (a 1911 wadcutter tends to be good examples here) the more sensitive a gun becomes to variables.

Rattling guns can shoot very accurately if the barrel is fit properly. tight guns can shoot crappy when fit crappy. Slide to frame fit is just a small percentage of accuracy with slide mounted sights

I have no idea what "super tune" up a chamber or feedramp means. But if the ramp/frame is cut correctly, it will feed everything. Ball, wadcutters, empty cases. Same with chambers, cut them to spec, they will feed ammo that is in spec.

My guns are built to be extremely accurate and a very specific function, shoot 9mm major for uspsa. They will function on any 9mm ammo, any profile, any length including empty cases. Anything else on a custom gun is unacceptable. This is why you spend the money on a custom gun

 

[M1911]

I am not sure how you figure..
A "standard" GI gun, is a (somewhat) loose, rattling gun. As such, it feeds anything and shoots everything the consequence of this is that it is not (by super tuned standards) accurate.

To me this smacks of the "everyone knows that" sort of thing that has been repeated so often that many people accept it without question, even though there don't seem to be any facts supporting it.

 

[Gammon]

Tightly fitted guns will be more susceptible to contaminants like dirt, sand etc. Match guns are not subjected to this sort of abuse because they will not survive. In hostile environments like the desert on a windy day you will see many shooters with covers on their match pistols to protect them.

Loose guns will perform in hostile environments because they are built loose to function when dirt is added to the mix. Just check out a GI 45 or a Glock.

 

[M1911]

Once again, assertions without any proof of any kind.

As an IDPA SO, I see a lot of guns puke, including Glocks. At the S&W Indoor Nationals, a fellow on my squad told me around lunch time that he wasn't into 1911s because of their unreliability. He must have tempted the gun gods, because on the next stage (and every stage thereafter) he had a failure to fire. My "unreliable" Wilson didn't miss a beat the entire match.

I've heard gunsmiths say that 1911s get most of their accuracy from slide to barrel lockup, not from slide to frame fit.

 

[Business End Customs]

I know all the 1911's builds I put out have tight tolerances , quality parts and are very accurate & very reliable...If it wasn't it wouldn't leave the shop.

I have seen and work on quite a few "GI's" that rattle like a mother an not feed ball ammo..

 

[Karl]

Isn't the typical "rattle test" for a 1911 (breech open and shake) usually a looseness in the barrel and barrel link and some wiggle in the slide. I have a couple of vintage 1911s that rattle when you do this and one 1911 that is a 1918 vintage gun that was professionally worked over in the late 60's - mid 70's. The 1918 has a crushed slide, a NM barrel, and the link has been replaced with a slightly longer one then fitted to the gun (the trigger was done too). This was redone by a professional gunsmith in New York for my dad when he was on the NYPD. It's definitely an old school tricked out gun.

 

[drgrant]

i have NEVER heard anyone say THAT before.

It's probably because there was an "incident" where Ed Brown basically was a total douchebag to this one youtube firearms blogger (I forget the guys username) who tried to interview Ed at SHOT and then the guy went all whaaambulance all over the internet over it, mostly much ado about nothing. Oh noes ed brown was meeeen to me! Then again I can see why someone might say that, too... with all the 1911s in the $1500-3000 price class, why does someone want to give that kind of cake to a guy who is a known grump?

-Mike

 

[Passthemacs]

Haha with my budget, smith 1911 is where I stop. To me they are my BBQ guns. Longs I like looking at them and shooting them I rather put the money elsewhere but if u got the loot have a toot and go for it.