How to react if approached about carrying a firearm in a store

[Acujeff]

How to react if approached about carrying a firearm in a store
by Sean Maloney JANUARY 08, 2020
How to react if approached about carrying a firearm in a store | Buckeye Firearms Association

Because of the recent murders committed in Texas and Ohio, and the resulting knee-jerk reactions, more and more stores that we regularly patronize are now banning open carry, and sometimes concealed carry, of firearms inside their retail establishments.

I am often asked about what to do when you are confronted about carrying a firearm in a store and asked to leave. Whether the store is posted in non conspicuous manner, resulting in your not seeing the “no guns” sign, or the store has not posted, or an employee or manager does not understand the store's policy and local laws regarding carrying a firearm, the answer is always the same: politely and quietly leave the store.

After you exit, it's up to you whether to disarm and reenter or choose to take your business elsewhere, and perhaps encourage your fellow armed citizens to do the same.

If you choose to investigate further, because the establishment is one that you regularly do business with or you suspect that the employee who requested that you leave has done so improperly, politely ask for a manager to meet you outside to discuss the matter.

Often, employees of a store confuse the “no gun policy” stated in their employee manual with store policy regarding firearms applied to customers. Many times, the lawful carry of firearms by store patrons are permitted and encouraged, however prohibited for employees.

Once the store policy is confirmed by a manager or a member of security, politely and quietly go on your way. Please do the rest of us a favor and do not ask them to post a “no gun sign.” In these situations, what the rest of don’t know keeps us protected.

As a law-abiding citizen, you are not violating a law if you unknowingly and unintentionally violate a store policy. You do not have to identify yourself, or show them your ID, or sign anything. Once again, politely and quietly leave the premises.

However, if the police have been called or are involved, and you are asked to identify yourself, you should do so to the police only, in a quite, polite manner. In the unlikely event that the police cite you and ask you to sign a summons to appear in court, sign the summons, otherwise it will leave the police with no other choice but to arrest you.

If the police ask you to sign some type of document from the store, politely advise them that you do not sign anything without your lawyer present and leave it at that. You have committed no trespass if this is the first time the police have confronted you at this business. You have committed no crime, so there is nothing to sign. Politely ask if you are free to leave. If so, go on your way.

As I regularly advise, don't argue your rights with a police officer. Let your lawyer do that for you later in front of a Judge. So too, this is not the time or the place to argue store policy with the police, who neither set store policy nor make any determination regarding store policy.

As law-abiding gun owners who seek to provide our own means of self-defense, we have nothing to gain by causing a scene or by chastising police officers simply doing their job.

Sean Maloney is a criminal defense attorney practicing in all areas of firearm-related law, a multi-discipline Certified NRA Instructor, Leader and Legal Counsel with Buckeye Firearms Association, and co-founder of Second Call Defense, a national organization that provides complete legal protection for armed self-defense.

 

[Drix]

"After you exit, it's up to you whether to disarm and reenter or choose to take your business elsewhere, and perhaps encourage your fellow armed citizens to do the same."

Uhh, no? You put down what you're doing and leave. Leaving your firearm unattended in your car is a bad idea, and no rational consensus is going to be made by just walking back into the store saying "Look I'm unarmed". Calling the manager later might be a worthy step, but it won't get you far around here.

As far as store documents go- You've made no contract with the store, you're not obligated to sign shit.

 

[mothybee]

Carrying concealed, who the hell's going to know.

 

[DarthRevan]

Concealed is concealed. I’m all for open carry and some times do, but in stores I’ll generally make sure I’m concealed just to not have to deal with the bleating public.

 

[Racenet]

What I have in my pants is none of your damn business.

 

[TrackDayRdr]

Last summer the Fam and I took a trip to Herpes...er...Hampton Beach and while we were there a dude and his GF walked past us with a Sig on each hip and two mags in pouches, all fully exposed. Nobody batted an eye. Impressive. I have rarely seen open carry in New England for the obvious reactionary reasons.

Personally, concealed is concealed and if someone sniffs me out it's my fault for being careless. If someone at the store asks me to leave I'm out of there as politely as possible. Common sense, right?

 

[Twigg]

I have rarely seen open carry in New England

I guess you’ve not been to New Hampshire. Open carry is common here and if anyone comments negatively I tell them to go back to massachatwoshits. If they get upset, I know they’re from Ma.

if someone says “WOW nice Gun whazzat? A 1911?”
I ask them what their screen name on nes then I tell them to go back to Massachusetwoshits and read about it on the forum. It’s funny when they get mad.

 

[LoginName]

So, in other words this guy handled it all wrong?

" Wal-Mart Employee Tried to Forcibly Disarm Me

I stopped off at a Super Wal-Mart yesterday to buy them out of .223 and .44, which I did, to the tune of several hundred dollars. The woman running the sporting goods counter was very friendly and helpful. I was with two friends at the time, and one of them mentioned that, that we should spend our Wednesday night cleaning our guns and watching Dirty Harry. Sounded like a perfect night to me!

I was open carrying a 6" S&W 29 at 3 o'clock in a Galco hip holster with jeans and a borrowed, West Virginia university jacket over a white t-shirt. It was snowing at the time and I didn't have a jacket on me, so I was wearing my friend's spare coat. The jacket was tucked behind the holster so the gun was clearly exposed. I do not currently have a CCW, and trying to conceal an N-Frame is nigh impossible anyway. All in all, my appearance suggested early 20's redneck, while my friends were business casual. I usually carry in a button down shirt and nice shoes, but the surprise snow precluded me from doing that.

I paid for my ammunition at the counter and moved to the movie section. We spent about ten minutes searching for Dirty Harry, but, unfortunately, couldn't find it. As a consolation prize, I picked up the Death Wish three-pack, True Grit, The Cowboys, and Rio Bravo. After gathering all of these up, we headed for the front counter to pay for the movies. In my left hand were the bags full of ammunition. My two friends were with me. All of us were relatively clean shaven with short haircuts. Both of them were conceal carrying, Friend One with a HK USPc 9mm in an MTAC and Friend Two carrying a Colt Government 1911 SOB without a holster. He also had a small can of OC spray.


As we reached the front of the store, I looked around for an open lane and saw that the Self Checkout was the best option, as it had no line. I set down my ammunition and scanned the first movie. The screen said "Employee Authorization Needed for Transaction Verification". I looked to the end of the lanes at the counter where they had two women employees overseeing the self check-out, and gave them a look that said, "Hey, I need someone to help me out with this." They gave me a look like they knew what was happening, but didn't say or do anything.

All three of us were standing, looking at the screen and around in the immediate vicinity.

After maybe ten seconds, a dark haired man, approximately 45-55 years old, came from around the backside of the self checkout lane and approached from my 10 o'clock while I was looking towards the women at the oversight counter at the front of the store. He was not wearing a name tag, but had on the Wal-mart blue polo shirt tucked in, jeans, a mustache and glasses. He was about 6'1" and had a small belt case that had either a flashlight or multi-tool, or something along that nature. His hands were empty. He came face-to-face with me at arms-length. I thought he was the guy who would press the buttons to approve my transaction. He spoke.

Wal-Mart guy - "Is there a reason you're carrying that firearm?" With a strong, accusatory tone.

Me - ::Slight pause:: "Yes."

I was pretty shocked at first, because, to that point, I had NEVER been challenged in this particular Wal-Mart, or any other, and I had open carried multiple times.

Wal-Mart guy - "Well then, let's see it. Put it (meaning the gun) on the counter."

Me - "No. I will not remove my gun from its holster."

Wal-Mart guy - "Put it on the counter."

Then, he grabbed me on the left shoulder with his right hand.

Massive adrenaline dump.

I knocked his arm away at the elbow while I took a step back and bladed at a 45 degree angle. My vision tunneled, all I could see was his torso. I was yelling loudly and forcefully, but not at the top of my lungs.

"YOU WILL NOT TOUCH ME! YOU WILL NOT PUT YOUR HANDS ON MY FIREARM"

My hands were out in front of me, palms facing out.

Wal-Mart guy - "Ohhh." Condescending tone.

He came at me again, reaching for my shoulder with his right hand and down and the gun on my right hip with his left. I knocked his hands away and covered the butt of the revolver. My two friends moved in to put some distance between us. He took a half-step back, and was just out of arms length. I was yelling throughout.

"YOU WILL NOT TOUCH MY FIREARM! YOU WILL NOT TOUCH MY FIREARM!""

More @ Wal-Mart Employee Tried to Forcibly Disarm Me ETA: Pics Pg 9, MSPaint Pg 15 - Page 1 - AR15.COM

 

[PaulR]

Concealed is Concealed®

/thread

 

[Da_lucche]

So, in other words this guy handled it all wrong?

" Wal-Mart Employee Tried to Forcibly Disarm Me

I stopped off at a Super Wal-Mart yesterday to buy them out of .223 and .44, which I did, to the tune of several hundred dollars. The woman running the sporting goods counter was very friendly and helpful. I was with two friends at the time, and one of them mentioned that, that we should spend our Wednesday night cleaning our guns and watching Dirty Harry. Sounded like a perfect night to me!

I was open carrying a 6" S&W 29 at 3 o'clock in a Galco hip holster with jeans and a borrowed, West Virginia university jacket over a white t-shirt. It was snowing at the time and I didn't have a jacket on me, so I was wearing my friend's spare coat. The jacket was tucked behind the holster so the gun was clearly exposed. I do not currently have a CCW, and trying to conceal an N-Frame is nigh impossible anyway. All in all, my appearance suggested early 20's redneck, while my friends were business casual. I usually carry in a button down shirt and nice shoes, but the surprise snow precluded me from doing that.

I paid for my ammunition at the counter and moved to the movie section. We spent about ten minutes searching for Dirty Harry, but, unfortunately, couldn't find it. As a consolation prize, I picked up the Death Wish three-pack, True Grit, The Cowboys, and Rio Bravo. After gathering all of these up, we headed for the front counter to pay for the movies. In my left hand were the bags full of ammunition. My two friends were with me. All of us were relatively clean shaven with short haircuts. Both of them were conceal carrying, Friend One with a HK USPc 9mm in an MTAC and Friend Two carrying a Colt Government 1911 SOB without a holster. He also had a small can of OC spray.


As we reached the front of the store, I looked around for an open lane and saw that the Self Checkout was the best option, as it had no line. I set down my ammunition and scanned the first movie. The screen said "Employee Authorization Needed for Transaction Verification". I looked to the end of the lanes at the counter where they had two women employees overseeing the self check-out, and gave them a look that said, "Hey, I need someone to help me out with this." They gave me a look like they knew what was happening, but didn't say or do anything.

All three of us were standing, looking at the screen and around in the immediate vicinity.

After maybe ten seconds, a dark haired man, approximately 45-55 years old, came from around the backside of the self checkout lane and approached from my 10 o'clock while I was looking towards the women at the oversight counter at the front of the store. He was not wearing a name tag, but had on the Wal-mart blue polo shirt tucked in, jeans, a mustache and glasses. He was about 6'1" and had a small belt case that had either a flashlight or multi-tool, or something along that nature. His hands were empty. He came face-to-face with me at arms-length. I thought he was the guy who would press the buttons to approve my transaction. He spoke.

Wal-Mart guy - "Is there a reason you're carrying that firearm?" With a strong, accusatory tone.

Me - ::Slight pause:: "Yes."

I was pretty shocked at first, because, to that point, I had NEVER been challenged in this particular Wal-Mart, or any other, and I had open carried multiple times.

Wal-Mart guy - "Well then, let's see it. Put it (meaning the gun) on the counter."

Me - "No. I will not remove my gun from its holster."

Wal-Mart guy - "Put it on the counter."

Then, he grabbed me on the left shoulder with his right hand.

Massive adrenaline dump.

I knocked his arm away at the elbow while I took a step back and bladed at a 45 degree angle. My vision tunneled, all I could see was his torso. I was yelling loudly and forcefully, but not at the top of my lungs.

"YOU WILL NOT TOUCH ME! YOU WILL NOT PUT YOUR HANDS ON MY FIREARM"

My hands were out in front of me, palms facing out.

Wal-Mart guy - "Ohhh." Condescending tone.

He came at me again, reaching for my shoulder with his right hand and down and the gun on my right hip with his left. I knocked his hands away and covered the butt of the revolver. My two friends moved in to put some distance between us. He took a half-step back, and was just out of arms length. I was yelling throughout.

"YOU WILL NOT TOUCH MY FIREARM! YOU WILL NOT TOUCH MY FIREARM!""

More @ Wal-Mart Employee Tried to Forcibly Disarm Me ETA: Pics Pg 9, MSPaint Pg 15 - Page 1 - AR15.COM

HAHAHAH BLADED AT 45!!! Classic!

 

[Racenet]

Last summer the Fam and I took a trip to Herpes...er...Hampton Beach and while we were there a dude and his GF walked past us with a Sig on each hip and two mags in pouches, all fully exposed. Nobody batted an eye. Impressive. I have rarely seen open carry in New England for the obvious reactionary reasons.

Personally, concealed is concealed and if someone sniffs me out it's my fault for being careless. If someone at the store asks me to leave I'm out of there as politely as possible. Common sense, right?

No, it's called carrying. This is NH, not MA. It is just a way of life here. Not something you need to slink about about, hiding in the closet.

When I get dressed, it goes on the belt (OWB for those who care), put on a shirt and go. It could be a t-shirt, polo shirt, dress shirt, flannel shirt or any combination there of. The firearm, well, it just gets carried. Simple.

 

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

Last summer the Fam and I took a trip to Herpes...er...Hampton Beach and while we were there a dude and his GF walked past us with a Sig on each hip and two mags in pouches, all fully exposed.

You're talking about the guns here, right?

A few years ago at Sig's Area 7 match, one day went fairly long and a bunch of people didn't bother to take off the guns and magazines afterward. They just drove back to the hotel and walked right across the hotel lobby to their rooms. Nobody even batted an eyelash. Definitely not MA.

 

[Quantavious G]

Last summer the Fam and I took a trip to Herpes...er...Hampton Beach and while we were there a dude and his GF walked past us with a Sig on each hip and two mags in pouches, all fully exposed. Nobody batted an eye. Impressive. I have rarely seen open carry in New England for the obvious reactionary reasons.

Personally, concealed is concealed and if someone sniffs me out it's my fault for being careless. If someone at the store asks me to leave I'm out of there as politely as possible. Common sense, right?

was the chick hot?

 

[Bladerunner]

Given how hung I am, I'm often asked to adhere to the no bazookas on premise sign.

 

[drgrant]

So, in other words this guy handled it all wrong?

" Wal-Mart Employee Tried to Forcibly Disarm Me

I stopped off at a Super Wal-Mart yesterday to buy them out of .223 and .44, which I did, to the tune of several hundred dollars. The woman running the sporting goods counter was very friendly and helpful. I was with two friends at the time, and one of them mentioned that, that we should spend our Wednesday night cleaning our guns and watching Dirty Harry. Sounded like a perfect night to me!

I was open carrying a 6" S&W 29 at 3 o'clock in a Galco hip holster with jeans and a borrowed, West Virginia university jacket over a white t-shirt. It was snowing at the time and I didn't have a jacket on me, so I was wearing my friend's spare coat. The jacket was tucked behind the holster so the gun was clearly exposed. I do not currently have a CCW, and trying to conceal an N-Frame is nigh impossible anyway. All in all, my appearance suggested early 20's redneck, while my friends were business casual. I usually carry in a button down shirt and nice shoes, but the surprise snow precluded me from doing that.

I paid for my ammunition at the counter and moved to the movie section. We spent about ten minutes searching for Dirty Harry, but, unfortunately, couldn't find it. As a consolation prize, I picked up the Death Wish three-pack, True Grit, The Cowboys, and Rio Bravo. After gathering all of these up, we headed for the front counter to pay for the movies. In my left hand were the bags full of ammunition. My two friends were with me. All of us were relatively clean shaven with short haircuts. Both of them were conceal carrying, Friend One with a HK USPc 9mm in an MTAC and Friend Two carrying a Colt Government 1911 SOB without a holster. He also had a small can of OC spray.


As we reached the front of the store, I looked around for an open lane and saw that the Self Checkout was the best option, as it had no line. I set down my ammunition and scanned the first movie. The screen said "Employee Authorization Needed for Transaction Verification". I looked to the end of the lanes at the counter where they had two women employees overseeing the self check-out, and gave them a look that said, "Hey, I need someone to help me out with this." They gave me a look like they knew what was happening, but didn't say or do anything.

All three of us were standing, looking at the screen and around in the immediate vicinity.

After maybe ten seconds, a dark haired man, approximately 45-55 years old, came from around the backside of the self checkout lane and approached from my 10 o'clock while I was looking towards the women at the oversight counter at the front of the store. He was not wearing a name tag, but had on the Wal-mart blue polo shirt tucked in, jeans, a mustache and glasses. He was about 6'1" and had a small belt case that had either a flashlight or multi-tool, or something along that nature. His hands were empty. He came face-to-face with me at arms-length. I thought he was the guy who would press the buttons to approve my transaction. He spoke.

Wal-Mart guy - "Is there a reason you're carrying that firearm?" With a strong, accusatory tone.

Me - ::Slight pause:: "Yes."

I was pretty shocked at first, because, to that point, I had NEVER been challenged in this particular Wal-Mart, or any other, and I had open carried multiple times.

Wal-Mart guy - "Well then, let's see it. Put it (meaning the gun) on the counter."

Me - "No. I will not remove my gun from its holster."

Wal-Mart guy - "Put it on the counter."

Then, he grabbed me on the left shoulder with his right hand.

Massive adrenaline dump.

I knocked his arm away at the elbow while I took a step back and bladed at a 45 degree angle. My vision tunneled, all I could see was his torso. I was yelling loudly and forcefully, but not at the top of my lungs.

"YOU WILL NOT TOUCH ME! YOU WILL NOT PUT YOUR HANDS ON MY FIREARM"

My hands were out in front of me, palms facing out.

Wal-Mart guy - "Ohhh." Condescending tone.

He came at me again, reaching for my shoulder with his right hand and down and the gun on my right hip with his left. I knocked his hands away and covered the butt of the revolver. My two friends moved in to put some distance between us. He took a half-step back, and was just out of arms length. I was yelling throughout.

"YOU WILL NOT TOUCH MY FIREARM! YOU WILL NOT TOUCH MY FIREARM!""

More @ Wal-Mart Employee Tried to Forcibly Disarm Me ETA: Pics Pg 9, MSPaint Pg 15 - Page 1 - AR15.COM

Who is that, Bassmedic46?

ETA: this is the best comment in the thread...

Paint diagram or it didn't happen.

Stolen from @Tinkermatic

 

[greencobra]

not wanting to come off as a hot shot, i don't pay attention to those signs. if they were serious, they'd install metal detectors at the entrances.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Carrying concealed, who the hell's going to know.

F that. I carry my Jerry Mickadi. . . Jerry Micalick. . . . Jerry Mershadark. . . . That really fast guy's Benelli (I think that's what it was) with the 400' mag extension wherever I go. On a single-point sling like the Starbucks Mafia did a few years ago.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

I just take out a row of ceiling lights, pick up my brass and step back to firing line. Jack.

 

[drgrant]

F that. I carry my Jerry Mickadi. . . Jerry Micalick. . . . Jerry Mershadark. . . . That really fast guy's Benelli (I think that's what it was) with the 400' mag extension wherever I go. On a single-point sling like the Starbucks Mafia did a few years ago.

Did these guys stop at starbucks too, or just Chipotle?

 

[tuna]

Uhh, no? You put down what you're doing and leave. Leaving your firearm unattended in your car is a bad idea, and no rational consensus is going to be made by just walking back into the store saying "Look I'm unarmed". Calling the manager later might be a worthy step, but it won't get you far around here.

No.

I’ll walk outside, give my pistol to the wife, go back in and leave an upper decker and bang the cutest cashier (that’s why the wife is outside). When the manager comes to complain I toss his keys on the roof.

I’m green on NES, that’s how we roll.

 

[Bob P]

"After you exit, it's up to you whether to disarm and reenter or choose to take your business elsewhere, and perhaps encourage your fellow armed citizens to do the same."

Uhh, no? You put down what you're doing and leave. Leaving your firearm unattended in your car is a bad idea, and no rational consensus is going to be made by just walking back into the store saying "Look I'm unarmed". Calling the manager later might be a worthy step, but it won't get you far around here.

As far as store documents go- You've made no contract with the store, you're not obligated to sign shit.

This is a Texas article and the storage laws in Texas are wildly different from those in Massachusetts. It’s perfectly legal to leave a firearm in your car in Texas without having to worry about additional locks etc.

 

[JenkkiMike]

I guess you’ve not been to New Hampshire. Open carry is common here and if anyone comments negatively I tell them to go back to massachatwoshits. If they get upset, I know they’re from Ma.

if someone says “WOW nice Gun whazzat? A 1911?”
I ask them what their screen name on nes then I tell them to go back to Massachusetwoshits and read about it on the forum. It’s funny when they get mad.

I do appreciate the ability to carry OWB and not worry that the SWAT team is going to be called on me if I bend over and my shirt lifts up a little. When I lived in Mass I always assumed anybody open carrying was a plain clothes cop or detective and I bet many others do too.

Is it common in New Hampshire? I have only seen people open carrying a few times in the year that I've been living here.

1. Guy open carrying a handgun in a holster and standing near the highway overpass near the mall in Manchester while holding up a sign saying something like "Time to repent, America. The party's over!"

2. A hunter with a muzzle loader slung on his shoulder about to hike into the woods near a trail head

3. A guy holding a scoped rifle in one hand getting his mail from the mailbox on a busy road in Bedford. I assume he had just got home from the range.

 

[Dennis in MA]

This is a Texas article and the storage laws in Texas are wildly different from those in Massachusetts. It’s perfectly legal to leave a firearm in your car in Texas without having to worry about additional locks etc.

It's perfectly legal to drive with a mixed drink in rural Missouri. Doesn't mean I'm gonna mix me a Margarita and go hop on Rt DD. (Yeah, DD. I love that road. LOL)

 

[Bob P]

It's perfectly legal to drive with a mixed drink in rural Missouri. Doesn't mean I'm gonna mix me a Margarita and go hop on Rt DD. (Yeah, DD. I love that road. LOL)

In Texas more cars have guns in them than not. You don’t need an LTC to have a gun in your car or to use one to defend yourself if attacked in your car, consequently a lot of people who do not have an LTC have guns in their cars. Because they can’t legally carry in public, they leave them there. It’s pretty common.

 

[StevieP]

There is life outside New England. I see concealed and open carriers here in NC all the time. Nobody bats an eye.

 

[oldguy68]

So no upper decker in the car, throw guns on the roof and go F yourself?

If not, GTFO of the store quietly and never return.
Problem solved.

PS. If it was concealed properly, then only you would have known!

 

[daekken]

I thought the proper reaction was to put everyone at ease by shouting, "I have a gun and I know how to use it!" This allays anyone's fears that you are not sufficiently trained.

 

[Junior314]

No mention of doing a tactical toll after “blading” away.

I call BS.

 

[Radtekk]

I once walked into the Walmart at drum hill, hitched up my jeans as I walked across the parking lot and apparently the old biddy 30ft away saw my 1911 iwb and called the local pd. A sergeant I knew heard the call, called me with a heads up that Chelmsford pd was enroute. They arrived, tall guy short chick, almost mutt & Jeff funny. I showed them my ltc, we had a nice chat. Female cop suggested I do a better job concealing. I suggested dispatch do a better job of telling people to myob, since the lady who called apparently couldn't. Dude cop agreed, we all smiled and went about our day.

On my wedding day I wore the outfit below. Full on cowboy. Low slung gunbelt, cartridge loops loaded with 357 ammo, GP100 6" in the holster. Walked around the lobby of the Westford Regency with family for about an hour, taking pictured in the lobby, halls, etc. Zero f's given, not a word spoken.

Can't begin to count how many times my t-shirt rode up over my gun while out on the MC.

I was always of the opinion "I'm legal. I'm (generally) not trying to flash, but if I do and you don't like it, too mf-ing bad." Most malls (esp Simon Co) are gun-free, even down here in TN. So I make sure I'm not obvious, but anybody with eyes can see that lump on my hip, and I stopped IWB when I got here, OWB is just more comfy.

I'm really sick and tired of apologizing for exercising my rights. Right now I'm wearing a t-shirt that says "I will never apologize for being American".

I just finished assembling a 10.5" 300 Blackout pistol. I'm waiting on the lower for another so I can put one together in 5.56 for Lady Radtekk.

This is an amazing country, for all its faults the best, safest, fairest, richest in the history of the world. I refuse to apologize for it.

Sorry for the thread drift, I'll climb down from my soapbox now...

 

[enbloc]

You could always ask the store manager "Is it ok to store my firearm in the same locking cabinet that the police do...?"