Identifying components

[caleb993]

I have some ammo from pine valley munitions from before they went out of business. This is the best shooting ammo I can find. I’ve made hand loads using components as close to it as I can manage, but I’m now stuck. This stuff shoots a 10 shot ragged hole at 100 yards out of my 10.5” sbr.

Really, I need to know what powder is inside of it. Does anyone have this info or know of how I can get it? Willing to ship a couple rounds to someone to look over it if necessary.

It’s their 5.56x45 77gr smk hpbt

Obviously I can’t contact them since they are out of business now. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Lennypeters]

I doubt you will have much luck on your quest. Your best bet will be to chronograph some and start there.

 

[caleb993]

I doubt you will have much luck on your quest. Your best bet will be to chronograph some and start there.

Thanks for the response. I kinda thought this might be a long shot.

I did chrono it. With a 77gr smk I got an average of 2600fps out of a 11.5” barrel

Edit: that is suppressed

 

[55_grain]

Pull a projo and post a pic of the powder after you weigh it. We can't tell you with certainty, but can at least differentiate between say a black hollow extruded IMR type powder vs Varget/Benchmark (weird green color) vs a ball powder.

FYI It might not be a commercially available powder.

 

[caleb993]

Pull a projo and post a pic of the powder after you weigh it. We can't tell you with certainty, but can at least differentiate between say a black hollow extruded IMR type powder vs Varget/Benchmark (weird green color) vs a ball powder.

FYI It might not be a commercially available powder.

I got 24.2gr. For reference, the powder in the black cap is H335

 

[55_grain]

Lots of possibilities for a ball powder; you'll probably never know for sure. Some ones that jump to mind: WCC844 milsurp powder, Win748, and Win760 are all similar-looking.

Your best bet might be to match the velocity, projo, and seating depth.

55_grain

 

[caleb993]

Lots of possibilities for a ball powder; you'll probably never know for sure. Some ones that jump to mind: WCC844 milsurp powder, Win748, and Win760 are all similar-looking.

Your best bet might be to match the velocity, projo, and seating depth.

55_grain

Appreciate it. I was thinking win 748 or maybe blc2. Do either one of those sound remotely close to the 2600ish fps with a 77gr smk out of a 11.5” barreled ar?

 

[Marty McFly]

@38ExtraSpecial

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

You do some digging in here to maybe get a better idea. This and maybe a bulk density chart to cross reference.

National Center for Forensic Science

 

[BTSDOG]

For what its worth, Sierra lists 24.1gr. of Vhit. N140 as their accuracy load for the 77gr. SMK @ 2600 fps. But thats with a 20 in. Barrel....

 

[50wt]

Sounds like some hot ammo.

Whats the powder charge weigh?

 

[whatluck]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iirWnaWjhc

 

[whatluck]

Have a look at cfe 223

Hodgdon CFE 223 Powder - 1LB Can | Outdoor and all Sales

Hodgdon CFE 223 Powder - 1LB Can Legalities defined by FCA, Act 60 of 2000: *We may supply only one tin of nitrocellulose propellant at a time, per firearm license. *If you have more than one firearm license, we may supply one tin per license, but no more than 2.4kg's nitrocellulose...

outdoorandallsales.co.za

 

[caleb993]

Have a look at cfe 223

Hodgdon CFE 223 Powder - 1LB Can | Outdoor and all Sales

Hodgdon CFE 223 Powder - 1LB Can Legalities defined by FCA, Act 60 of 2000: *We may supply only one tin of nitrocellulose propellant at a time, per firearm license. *If you have more than one firearm license, we may supply one tin per license, but no more than 2.4kg's nitrocellulose...

outdoorandallsales.co.za

I tired it with cfe a couple weeks ago with a ladder test but it wasn’t grouping well out of the 77/75gr bullets. Shot really well with a 62gr bthp though

 

[caleb993]

Sounds like some hot ammo.

Whats the powder charge weigh?

It was either 24.2gr or 24.4gr when I pulled it apart

 

[55_grain]

It was either 24.2gr or 24.4gr when I pulled it apart

Hodgdon (Reloading Data Center – Hodgdon Reloading Data Center) lists 23.0 starting to 24.9gr max of BLC2 under a 77gr for 2804ft/sec - I assume that's for a 20" barrel (but I don't know). Let's assume it was a 20" barrel. You're measuring 2600ft/sec with an 10.5" barrel, so 204 ft/sec slower. That's a decrease of 21.5ft/sec per inch of barrel, which is consistent with some other velocities I've seen online. So it could be BLC2, but that's a stack of assumptions and precision guesswork.

 

[caleb993]

For what its worth, Sierra lists 24.1gr. of Vhit. N140 as their accuracy load for the 77gr. SMK @ 2600 fps. But thats with a 20 in. Barrel....

Thanks! I tried that one out this weekend and while it is not the exact same powder load, I did get similar results. Around 2450fps with a 77gr smk out of a 10.5" barrel. And really good accuracy as well with a 5 shot ragged hole.

Thanks to everyone for the assistance!

 

[gerrycaruso]

In 223/5.56 specifically, I found that standard primers are more accurate than magnum. This was with Win.748 which should use a magnum primer.