Illegals get guns, and badges and arrest powers.

[rogersmithiii]

Los Angeles Hires, Arms Foreign Criminals To Police U.S. Citizens

Illegal foreigners who don't have the constitutional right to bear arms can arrest and even disarm a U.S. citizen who does.

thefederalist.com

 

[Mellero47]

It's DACA,  children who were brought here by their parents, have grown and lived and worked and paid taxes here, now wanting to become police officers. Smart thing would be to fast track them to Residency after some time in service, let them pursue Citizenship from there.

The Federalist can go f*** themselves to be quite honest.

 

[June4th]

It's DACA,  children who were brought here by their parents, have grown and lived and worked and paid taxes here, now wanting to become police officers. Smart thing would be to fast track them to Residency after some time in service, let them pursue Citizenship from there.

The Federalist can go f*** themselves to be quite honest.

1. What do you mean by ‘service’? Military or police included?

2. DACA is deferred action on deportation. Until congress enacts laws to provide a path to residency and citizenship, their status as illegal aliens does not change.

3. As they still are citizens of their home country, how can they swear the oath of service before they swear the oath of allegiance/citizenship?

Yes, federalists can go f themselves, but aren’t we dealing with some pretty significant constitutional questions here, and if we hastily declares ‘what difference does it make anyways’, why do we have laws at all?

 

[Mellero47]

It's like I said, these were children brought here by their parents. They didn't have a say in the matter. But they did in fact grow up here, with zero ties to their country of origin. In every way except one, they're American taxpayers.

1. Military or Police, either works. Or even something Civil like the Peace Corps. The point is to demonstrate a willingness to serve on behalf of the nation they'd call home.

3. I was only a Resident Alien when I took the oath of enlistment, there was no conflict there. And Dominican Republic has dual citizenship, so I have the status in both.

I mean hey, we can deport them to a country (and likely even a language) they don't know, or we can give them proper status and let them contribute like they have been all along. People keep complaining about birthrates dropping, the solution couldn't be more obvious.

 

[bigben111435]

It's like I said, these were children brought here by their parents. They didn't have a say in the matter. But they did in fact grow up here, with zero ties to their country of origin. In every way except one, they're American taxpayers.

1. Military or Police, either works. Or even something Civil like the Peace Corps. The point is to demonstrate a willingness to serve on behalf of the nation they'd call home.

3. I was only a Resident Alien when I took the oath of enlistment, there was no conflict there. And Dominican Republic has dual citizenship, so I have the status in both.

I mean hey, we can deport them to a country (and likely even a language) they don't know, or we can give them proper status and let them contribute like they have been all along. People keep complaining about birthrates dropping, the solution couldn't be more obvious.

this is very tidy explanation but the reality is much much more sinister.
And assuming that giving someone a badge and a firearm makes them a contributor is bananas
DACA..
1. these are Obama's dreamers
2. they have been supported by USGOV since day 1
3. now they are 18+ and can be hired to enforce the communism.
4. Like kick down other Americans doors and disarm them, because who is that person going to be loyal to? 'fellow' Americans? or the system that supports them?

not blaming the individuals, they are pawns.

 

[Mellero47]

OK buddy.

 

[bigben111435]

OK buddy.

thank you for agreeing.

 

[PappyM3]

It's DACA,  children who were brought here by their parents, have grown and lived and worked and paid taxes here, now wanting to become police officers. Smart thing would be to fast track them to Residency after some time in service, let them pursue Citizenship from there.

The Federalist can go f*** themselves to be quite honest.

f*** no. Only citizens should be granted the authority to execute the state’s monopoly on violence towards other citizens.

Yeah, they came here as kids and didn’t have a say. Boo hoo, so sad too bad. Life’s not fair, but citizenship is a prerequisite for holding positions of trust and authority in the government.

If DACA recipients want to be police, then they can pursue citizenship. The military (which has no authority over other citizens) is a great place to earn citizenship.

 

[Mellero47]

You're skipping right to citizenship, I think Residency is enough. Status assured, free to pursue their American Dream without that clock ticking away. Then if they want citizenship they can get it on their own as I did.

 

[June4th]

f*** no. Only citizens should be granted the authority to execute the state’s monopoly on violence towards other citizens.

Yeah, they came here as kids and didn’t have a say. Boo hoo, so sad too bad. Life’s not fair, but citizenship is a prerequisite for holding positions of trust and authority in the government.

If DACA recipients want to be police, then they can pursue citizenship. The military (which has no authority over other citizens) is a great place to earn citizenship.

The difference in military and police is huge here. As pointed out clearly by PappyM3, the US military doesn’t have police power domestically. I know permanent residents can already accelerate their naturalization process via military service. If congress wants to enact laws to establish a pathway to residency via military service, I don’t have a problem with that, but I do believe that there should be a quota to ensure the citizenship composition of the military: one factor of Rome’s demise was, enlisting too many barbarians for their legions.

 

[snax]

Let's see how this plays out. Plenty of shitty American citizen cops

 

[PappyM3]

You're skipping right to citizenship, I think Residency is enough. Status assured, free to pursue their American Dream without that clock ticking away. Then if they want citizenship they can get it on their own as I did.

Damn right I’m skipping straight to citizenship for positions of trust and authority with the government. There are plenty of positions working for government agencies that would be perfectly fine for permanent residents. LE is not one of them. The key factor is the trust and authority bit. You need to be a citizen to get a security clearance, you should need to be a citizen if you have the authority to throw other citizens in jail.

Like I said, military service is a great way to speed up the path to citizenship.

 

[milktree]

Damn right I’m skipping straight to citizenship for positions of trust and authority with the government. There are plenty of positions working for government agencies that would be perfectly fine for permanent residents. LE is not one of them. The key factor is the trust and authority bit. You need to be a citizen to get a security clearance, you should need to be a citizen if you have the authority to throw other citizens in jail.

Like I said, military service is a great way to speed up the path to citizenship.

I’d agree with you if being a citizen was any guarantee or indication of not being a jack-booted authoritarian thug.

But it’s not, not even a little bit. The effective immunity from any consequences of their actions could have a thread all unto itself. Maybe a “police protecting and serving” thread.

If anything, the threat of losing a chance at citizenship should make those under DACA *better* at behaving like a police force should.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

I’d agree with you if being a citizen was any guarantee or indication of not being a jack-booted authoritarian thug.

While I agree that is irrelevant. @PappyM3 is right. Citizenship matters and is a core requirement for people that are expected to enforce the nations laws on its citizens. Otherwise you might as well get the blue helmets in to function as out police forces.

 

[Horatio_Alger_Jr]

You're skipping right to citizenship, I think Residency is enough. Status assured, free to pursue their American Dream without that clock ticking away. Then if they want citizenship they can get it on their own as I did.

I disagree with you completely.

They came here as kids. They had no choice. We can agree on that.

Where I start to disagree with you is the whole "it's not thier fault" part of your argument. We all have to deal our parents choices.

Their parents came here illegally. They have to deal with those consequences, fair or not. My parents made choices that put me in situations that I had to deal with.

Sometimes, parents can cast long shadows.

What you are arguing is "equality". They should be given something because it was not thier fault. Should I be given a higher education because it was not my fault?

Your argument of "equality" can go down a very dangerous path.

The solution to the dropping American birthrate has a simple solution, giving citizenship to people that are here illegally is not the answer. More illegal aliens is not the answer. Giving children citizenship, or residency, that are here illegally is creating a incentive to have other do the same.

I my opinion your "obvious" solution would make our illegal alien situation worse on a scale that is unimaginable.

If we are arguing on feelings (as you are), I want anyone to denounce their home country and become a citizen before taking a role in any public setting (government worker, official, politician, contractor, LEO, military, librarian, etc.). I also want anyone to denounce their home country and become a citizen for assistance.

 

[vicorjh]

I’d agree with you if being a citizen was any guarantee or indication of not being a jack-booted authoritarian thug.

I think Residency is enough

Gaining naturalization is the challenge. It demonstrates a level of commitment to the United States and what she stands for.

Does that mean there aren't s-birds in there? No. But if the immigrant survived here without being deported, has integrated into a community, and has not committed some sort of crime during their tenure, it does have real predictive value.

And, I'd suggest, the majority of those who went through the process (paperwork ... waiting ... more paperwork ... more waiting), are quite proud to become naturalized citizens of the United States.

 

[milktree]

While I agree that is irrelevant. @PappyM3 is right. Citizenship matters and is a core requirement for people that are expected to enforce the nations laws on its citizens. Otherwise you might as well get the blue helmets in to function as out police forces.

This is a bizarre argument.

If the DACA recipients had loyalty to ANYWHERE ELSE, that argument would have more than zero weight.

You're asserting that simply by having been born in another country, on that alone, their loyalties lie with that foreign country, and not the country where they have family and assets and social connections and speak the language.

They don't, have any more connection to a foreign country than anyone born here to foreign born parents.

They are motivated to be a good American in ways someone with citizenship isn't: They can be exiled.

If a US citizen does some horrible shit (as a cop, or not) they're not going to be sent to a foreign country.

If a DACA recipient does some horrible shit, they get sent to a country where they have no connections, don't have any assets, and might not speak the language.


Furthermore, cops enforce US laws. Or more specifically, city/town laws. City/town cops don't enforce federal laws, and certainly not UN shit. (and if they did, all the US born cops would do it, too. Don't fool yourself into thinking they wouldn't)

Drawing some connection between DACA recipients and UN forces taking over is unhinged scare tactics.

 

[PappyM3]

I’d agree with you if being a citizen was any guarantee or indication of not being a jack-booted authoritarian thug.
…

While true, putting foreigners in LE positions with the ability to jail American citizens in America is not the answer.

* I understand many DACA members are pretty much Americans and probably loyal to the country, having lived here so long. But “pretty much” still isn’t a citizen.

 

[PappyM3]

…

If a DACA recipient does some horrible shit, they get sent to a country where they have no connections, don't have any assets, and might not speak the language.
…

I doubt it. The police unions and blue line will protect them just the same.

 

[mikeboston]

Will they drive cars that say “DACA POLICE”

 

[milktree]

While true, putting foreigners in LE positions with the ability to jail American citizens in America is not the answer.

* I understand many DACA members are pretty much Americans and probably loyal to the country, having lived here so long. But “pretty much” still isn’t a citizen.

But.. why do you care? Do you think their behavior is likely to be worse than someone with the right paperwork?

There's lots of of places in the US where citizenship isn't a requirement for being a police officer. Some states/municipalities allow it, others don't. Is this a problem?

And it's not like anyone's crying "they're taking our jobs!!!11ELEVEN!!" over this. California isn't doing this because they're a bunch of pinkos, they're doing it because not enough people want to be cops. If they were turning citizens away from the police academy, this wouldn't have come up.

And it's not like citizenship was a requirement before this change. California already had permanent residents who were not citizens on the police forces. Are they spies for the UN, too?

That Federalist article is all fearmongering bullshit to get clicks and make people angry.

 

[Picton]

citizenship is a prerequisite for holding positions of trust and authority in the government.

I dunno.

We've got an entire thread of American cops doing terrible, unconstitutional things. If all those cops are citizens, I don't see how their status as US citizens is all that helpful in keeping them accountable to the rest of us. This nation, sadly, is packed with US citizens whose judgement and actions are shitty enough to show that they don't deserve anything like a "position of trust and authority."

There are a number of reasons why it might be a bad idea to give DACA people a badge, but the idea that only US citizens can be Good Cops is silly on its face.

 

[milktree]

I doubt it. The police unions and blue line will protect them just the same.

Maybe? Probably? But that doesn't matter, and doesn't really change my point: If a US Citizen cop does something bad enough to get kicked off the force, he gets another job (at another PD?) If a DACA recipient gets convicted of *ANYTHING*, they're out of the country.

And... this brings up another, much, much larger problem: Police unions and qualified immunity.

 

[June4th]

Jesus Christ some pro-DACA arguments on this thread are just… entertaining. I’m a China-born naturalized US citizen, and not being able to be elected as POTOS, while causing me stabbing pain at heart sometimes as I ponder my career options after my third double shots of single malt, but I can live with it for most of my sobering moments.

For DACA folks, the Goddess of Fortune smiled on them once big time and gave them Barry the doofus, perhaps it isn’t an earth-shattering disappointment to settle for the hundreds careers that they can pursue other than lording over us.

 

[Len-2A Training]

While true, putting foreigners in LE positions with the ability to jail American citizens in America is not the answer.

Also, keep in mind that police are given a "license to kill" in the US. And lately, there have been far too many police shootings where lesser means might well have sufficed.

 

[gerrycaruso]

So people who went through the process of becoming citizens won't be irritated by this? This sounds like something Ma would think up.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

You're skipping right to citizenship, I think Residency is enough. Status assured, free to pursue their American Dream without that clock ticking away. Then if they want citizenship they can get it on their own as I did.

Did you take any in? You should.

 

[Dadstoys]

Been done before.
Worked out swimmingly .

Killing of Justine Damond - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[steven grammont]

It's like I said, these were children brought here by their parents. They didn't have a say in the matter. But they did in fact grow up here, with zero ties to their country of origin. In every way except one, they're American taxpayers.

1. Military or Police, either works. Or even something Civil like the Peace Corps. The point is to demonstrate a willingness to serve on behalf of the nation they'd call home.

3. I was only a Resident Alien when I took the oath of enlistment, there was no conflict there. And Dominican Republic has dual citizenship, so I have the status in both.

I mean hey, we can deport them to a country (and likely even a language) they don't know, or we can give them proper status and let them contribute like they have been all along. People keep complaining about birthrates dropping, the solution couldn't be more obvious.

Are we just assuming that they've been "contributing all along"?

 

[milktree]

Been done before.
Worked out swimmingly .

Killing of Justine Damond - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Did you even do any research at all before posting this? Like even googling "is Mohamed Noor a US citizen"?

Mohamed Noor IS A US CITIZEN. He became a citizen in 1999. He became a cop in 2015.

He was just a shitty, brutal cop.

He had a bunch of complaints against him before that incident.

The real failing here is not "OMG, Foreigners are scary", but rather "The police unions and thin blue line and qualified immunity are absolutely terrible."