Considering getting into a new craft hobby and I'm considering metal working, which would require obtaining a forge, or pottery, which would require a kiln. Both have potential long-term disaster response uses, so I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are - which would you give priority to?
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Kiln or Forge?
- Thread starter ShadeWPI
- Start date
I'd go with blacksmithing. Both are fun and useful skills to have though.
A forge, to heat iron and bend it, or a furnace to heat treat steel? I'm into home shop machining using old hand tools and it's a bunch of fun. I've got a '67 Southbend 10L lathe and the thing runs like new. I've got a cranky little chineese mill that's gonna get melted down at some point because I hate it so much. Neat thing about metal working is you'll find little gunsmith jobs that you'd be comfortable doing that otherwise you'd have paid someone to do. I recrowned a muzzle the other day. Simple job that only took about 15 min of setup time. I've modified and made a bunch of tools for my reloading obsession. I can polish aluminum or steel to a mirror. Highly recommend the hobby.
As for pottery, I have no desire, but having a kiln and being able to work ceramics could be useful.
As for pottery, I have no desire, but having a kiln and being able to work ceramics could be useful.
If your not completely set on metal, lampworking (glass) is very fun. Its kinda like a mix of working with clay and metal. I am still a newb, but i can make something that looks like a marble.
I've wanted to get into blacksmithing(knives, swords) for ages, but haven't gotten around to it. I just don't like the idea of an electric forge, and don't have gas at the house.
It doesn't take long to learn how to fold and alloy steel, right? ;p
It doesn't take long to learn how to fold and alloy steel, right? ;p
Nice! I have a 9C South Bend lathe from 1937 - still runs smooth and accurate. Also have an RF45 mill/drill which works out OK for most jobs - nothing like the old US made tools though
When I was in college me and a friend set up a small charcoal fired forge. We didn't manage to do anything nearly useful, mainly because we had a lot of other things going on and we figured that the noise would eventually piss off our neighbors.... still fun though.
If I had an adequate setting I would definitely try to set up a small propane forge.
Last year Westford Sportsmans Club had a blacksmith demo at their open house in May. The guy had a portable propane forge. The open house will be in October this year, I think. I have no idea if the blacksmith will be there again though.
If I had an adequate setting I would definitely try to set up a small propane forge.
Last year Westford Sportsmans Club had a blacksmith demo at their open house in May. The guy had a portable propane forge. The open house will be in October this year, I think. I have no idea if the blacksmith will be there again though.
You can heat-treat or even smelt metal in a kiln but you can"t fire pots in a forge. I would follow the historical sequence, first pottery, then cast metal (think tankard lids,) then ironworking.
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I'd tend to agree with this - I've owned a kiln for many years before getting all the blacksmithing stuff.
But in practice - it's the forge & hammers that get used on a fairly regular basis.
As far as a long-term disaster scenario - there is a massive glut of useful china and pottery already laying around. I know my house has enough to last a few lifetimes! But being able to fix or fabricate metal items pretty much requires that you have the tools.
I have a lot of experience with machining. 2 years of drafting classes that required us to spend 1 day a week working with the machinists on vertical mills, horizontal mills and lathes. Another year of precision machining classes, plus a year of dedicated CNC work on both a fullsize Bridgeport vertical mill and a "small" 700lbs bench-top. Add to that 8 years of lath and mill work volunteering with a high school robotics team, both machining small parts for the team and teaching high school kids how to machine their own parts.
Would love to add both a mill and a lathe, but considering these others right now.
Several good points made, and I have to agree, from a disaster / survival point of view, metal working does seem to be the more high demand trade, while ceramics are more of a luxury.
Rob Boudrie
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Better plant a chestnut tree.
This reminds me of something I take for granted, maybe you folks too. I grew up in America. This was a strange country where the schools required young men, in addition to English, Science, Math, and History, to take courses on drafting, metal working, and wood working. By the time a young man was old enough to decide whether or not he would enroll in the school's JROTC program, he would be proficient, or at least familiar, with the tools and processes required to build both decorative and functional household items.
My wife is still astonished that I built a kegerator from a sketch, but I thought everyone could do that.
It was hardly required for me to take drafting or machine shop. It was a choice I made. It weighed heavily in my choice to attend public school over private school (which didn't offer these choices)
Woodshop, First Aid basics, Cooking, Sewing, Basic pottery and basic child care were all part of required classes in my public intermedate (junior high / middle school) education, but not at the highschool level. I came under a lot of critisim from school officials for taking so many vocational classes while I was clearly a "college prepatory" student.
It is unfortunate that media and government officials have become so focused on schools preparing kids for college rather than providing them a basic and functional education, that many aspects of a functional education have been lost. One of my tasks while taking drafting was to produce a set of archetectural drawings and documents for the building trades group to use to build sheds that they sold to offset some of the costs of the program.
Working on the drawings and documents (including a tools list and bill of materials down to the last wire nut and roofing nail) required a huge amount of collaberation between the drafting group and the building trades group. It's too bad that kind of activity is not promoted more in schools today.
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Am I missing something about the association between chestnut and the topic if discussion?
If it came across that way, it wasn't my intention to belittle your skills, abilities, or education choices. Your post just made me think about how when I was in junior high, we were required to take at least one drafting and metal or wood shop class every year. I liked them a lot, and took both each year.
I took a couple of college drafting (love drafting!), CAD, and auto mechanic classes too, before finishing in computer science. Getting college credit for rebuilding V-8's? You bet!
I took a couple of college drafting (love drafting!), CAD, and auto mechanic classes too, before finishing in computer science. Getting college credit for rebuilding V-8's? You bet!
I think this a reference to a poem...
Under a spreading chestnut-tree
The village smithy stands...
Wasn't taken as belittling in the least. I was just saying, but the time I was in highschool (1992 - 1996) it wasn't required, and I was critized by school administrators for taking "vocational" classes despite being considered a "college track" student. That mentality is part of the problem, that administrators feel that highschool's purpose is to either prepare you for college OR prepare you for vocational training, not to provide you with an education.
There is the classis small forge made out of a truck brake drum and some black pipe. I have made 2 and they are simple and cheap to construct. I used the plans from Readers Digests Back to Basics. You can use a hair dryer or a vac as your blower. I used the hair dryer for one and an old stove blower for another. Personally I would shy away from the propane and the electric forges. The propane forges can suck through the propane and I dont like much electric stuff. Neither of which is going to be available post SHTF. I can make charcoal very easily once my coal runs out.
Did you see the post on page 1?...
Get one of these, and then spend years collecting and making hammers, tongs, anvils, bottom tools, vises, choice bits of scrap metal, and..........
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Boris
Son of Kalashnikov
Kilns are pretty much for pottery only and they suck electricity like nuts. You also need special bricks and special wire which will eventually fail, like the rest of the kiln.
Forge is pretty badass, no need for electricity, would work on coke but also other coals if you are desperate.
Forge is pretty badass, no need for electricity, would work on coke but also other coals if you are desperate.
I’d go with a forge because if – and when – the human feces strikes the rotating blades you can still have a working instrument and a necessary skill. I have been thinking of buying/making a forge so I can make my own knife blades. I found that anvils are not only heavy but they are expensive, too. But having blacksmithing skills seem to be handier than pottery.
Thanks everyone for the input. still working out the details.
I must say though, I'm a little suprised with the number of people discounting the kiln because they "use a lot of electricity" who said anything about an electric kiln? If I was going to build a kiln, it'll most likely be a wood fired outdoor kiln.
No, I agree with the statement that there is a glut of ceramic wares, and in the even that the excriment does strike the rotary blades, there is unlikely to be an immediate demand for pottery and while you can include broken pottery in new pottery, smithing does offer a more readily available ability to repurpose items.
I must say though, I'm a little suprised with the number of people discounting the kiln because they "use a lot of electricity" who said anything about an electric kiln? If I was going to build a kiln, it'll most likely be a wood fired outdoor kiln.
No, I agree with the statement that there is a glut of ceramic wares, and in the even that the excriment does strike the rotary blades, there is unlikely to be an immediate demand for pottery and while you can include broken pottery in new pottery, smithing does offer a more readily available ability to repurpose items.
Boris
Son of Kalashnikov
good luck with that, even for low temps you'd be on the road to learn a lot about building kilns and not actual pottery.
mousegunguy
NES Member
Great idea, I have around 30 on the farm. If your gonna plant a chestnut you would be much better off planting 2 or 3. They are not usually self pollinating. Be sure to get trees that are blight resistant.
