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Legally defined near-assault weapons and suppressors/silencers; possible?
- Thread starter gss
- Start date
The head guy at the DPS came out and said that a suppressor ($200 tax kind) are not a flash hider but unless you have a quick disconnect type can you still can't put one on an AR unless it is preban.
I also have my doubts about SBR'ing a rifle and 922 compliance, if that were the case I could get a new FAL receiver from DSA and SBR it and throw a import parts kit on it. I can't see that flying.
The Head guy at DPS is John Danaher and I doubt he has released any statements regarding firearms. It could have been some letter from a SGT or LT at the SLFU. And another inquiry could produce a statement saying the opposite. Considering the CSP is a Law Enforcement agency they really don't have the final say. That would be the court systems job. The laws and definitions in CT are just really poorly written leaving a lot of things in the air.
As far as the FAL goes, seems like it would work. 922r does not apply to NFA items.
Gamesetmatch? Hardly. The wording of the statute is still piss poor. Anyone is free to do as they wish though and there are so many non-compliant weapons floating around this state anyways that it would probably be overlooked just like they all are. Nver know though. I am not willing to take the chance and I have preban lowers so I don't have to.
The statement regarding the suppressor was made to a class iii dealer whom I use frequently.
As for the SBR/922r rules, in a previous post you say that just because you SBR an AR lower doesn't mean you can stick a flash hider etc on it. Those items are regulated by the 1993 state law. The 922r compliance goes back before then so it would still apply.
I don't the statement or it's content one bit. But It most likely came from the commanding offcier at the SFLU and not the DPS Commissioner. Either way it's still the courts who interpret laws, not LEOs. A statement is better than nothing but still not solid. There have been many instances of contridicting statements made depending on when you call and who you talk to.
CT AWB is a State Law. 922r and NFA are both federal level. The SBR negating 922r comes directly from my 07/02 Dealer. In the example of you buying a DSA reciever to build a FAL with from a parts kit. SBRing would negate the 922r but it would still have to comply to CT AWB. State and Fed are seperate laws.
Well, now I know that a silencer for absolutely sure is not a flash hider by written law. I agree that judges do illegally legislate from the bench and that LEO agencies often give contradictory statements for one reason or another (ie misunderstandings). But the fact that one law states "silencers" and "flash hiders" as two separate devices, I'm liking the chances of the legality of this. However, "liking the chances" is a funny thing. I'm still looking for a pre-ban lower. Considering any one of them can change their mind and make up a new law at any moment on a whim...
I already bought a pre-ban 10/22 in the mid west this year. It's old and I'm going to have to replace just about everything to get it to work, but hey, that's their job, to make it harder for people to go about their lives.
I already bought a pre-ban 10/22 in the mid west this year. It's old and I'm going to have to replace just about everything to get it to work, but hey, that's their job, to make it harder for people to go about their lives.
What applies to pistols under the AWB does not mean it applys to rifles as well. There is still no definition at all in the CT statute for what a silencer is. So to say that you know for sure a silencer is not a flash hider would be false. It's just so vague it's rediculous.
It's unfortunate we even have to have these discussions instead of just being able to go to the store and purchase a brand new Colt 6920 or LMT Defender 2000 with all the intended features intact, put a supressor on the end and go shoot like people in most other states. Maybee some day.......
The fact that the crime rate is not associated on the AWB has no bearing to the idiots in Hartford. As for the laws they write ambuguity rules.
dcmdon
NES Member
The practical reality is that a sound suppressor is legal in CT. Period.
If you go through the legal process of purchasing one from any of the numerous class 3 dealers in the state then you are clean.
If at some point in the future some hack decides that suppressors are flash suppressors, well we'll take it from there.
On a practical level. If you have the scratch to spend $800 on a suppressor, why not just buck up and get a pre-ban lower so that you don't have to screw around with silver soldered quick detach mounts on your gun.
A pre-ban lower thats been SBR'd is great because you can put just about anything on it and still be legal.
If you go through the legal process of purchasing one from any of the numerous class 3 dealers in the state then you are clean.
If at some point in the future some hack decides that suppressors are flash suppressors, well we'll take it from there.
On a practical level. If you have the scratch to spend $800 on a suppressor, why not just buck up and get a pre-ban lower so that you don't have to screw around with silver soldered quick detach mounts on your gun.
A pre-ban lower thats been SBR'd is great because you can put just about anything on it and still be legal.
Thats what I always went by, unless its law written to specifically say its illegal, its legal. I just had this debate with someone who told me absolutely you CAN NOT have a suppressed post ban in connecticut because its considered a flash hider, I told him I know of an individual that owns a SCAR with a silencer (setup by a local dealer).
So what I gather is this:
The individual spending $5000 on his suppressed SCAR is NOT going to risk his livelyhood and freedom by having a felony weapon.
The reputable dealer will not risk its existence on 1 illegal transaction
There is nothing in writing that anyone can point to that clearly states that a silencer is a flash hider
dcmdon
NES Member
Beastly,
The reality is that there is no definitive law around this until someone is arrested and prosecuted.
It all depends on your risk tolerance. There is no black and white here. All it takes is one cop to make an arrest.
I can already tell you how it goes if anyone ever does get arrested. Charges will be dropped unless the guy doesnt' have the money for a decent atty, in which case
it will be nolle'd.
The prosecutors do not want to make case law on this.
With all that said, I've been shooting NFA stuff for many years and have never been approached by anyone in LE asking for any kind of documentation.
I was asked for "the paperwork" on a NFA item once while shooting on private land, but thats another deal. You have to expect those kinds of encounters when shooting on private land. For what its worth, I refused and nothing happened.
Don
p.s. One other thing, the real issue here that IS black and white is that you can't have a threaded bbl on your SCAR. So the suppressor has to either be permantntly attached, or it needs to have a muzzle end device permanently attached that allows some kind of quick attachment of the suppressor.
The reality is that there is no definitive law around this until someone is arrested and prosecuted.
It all depends on your risk tolerance. There is no black and white here. All it takes is one cop to make an arrest.
I can already tell you how it goes if anyone ever does get arrested. Charges will be dropped unless the guy doesnt' have the money for a decent atty, in which case
it will be nolle'd.
The prosecutors do not want to make case law on this.
With all that said, I've been shooting NFA stuff for many years and have never been approached by anyone in LE asking for any kind of documentation.
I was asked for "the paperwork" on a NFA item once while shooting on private land, but thats another deal. You have to expect those kinds of encounters when shooting on private land. For what its worth, I refused and nothing happened.
Don
p.s. One other thing, the real issue here that IS black and white is that you can't have a threaded bbl on your SCAR. So the suppressor has to either be permantntly attached, or it needs to have a muzzle end device permanently attached that allows some kind of quick attachment of the suppressor.
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Lets say a silencer is not a flash suppressor.
And the silencer is permanently attached to the barrel.
Would the silencer be considered in the length of a barrel?
Say if one wanted a Kriss Vector with a silencer with a pinned stock.
This would then be considered a normal long barrel rifle. right?
Sure would make one fun gun.
Silencer
Almost looks the same as the CT legal Carbine
http://kriss-usa.com/images/thumbnails/CRB basic LH.jpg
And the silencer is permanently attached to the barrel.
Would the silencer be considered in the length of a barrel?
Say if one wanted a Kriss Vector with a silencer with a pinned stock.
This would then be considered a normal long barrel rifle. right?
Sure would make one fun gun.
Silencer
Almost looks the same as the CT legal Carbine
http://kriss-usa.com/images/thumbnails/CRB basic LH.jpg
dcmdon
NES Member
That is correct. I the silencer is non-removable, then it figures into the bbl length calculation.
Although your example doesn't really make a lot of sense. Here's why.
You are already paying for one $200 stamp and waiting months for the paperwork on your $2500 toy.
If you set it up as a proper SBR with a removable silencer, then its just an extra $200. Same wait.
So the only thing you gain by permanently affixing the silencer is a $200 savings.
What you lose is substantial:
1) the ability to replace the silencer if it is damaged
2) the ability use the silencer on another gun
3) the ability to use the SBR in non-silenced configuration
4) the ability to sell each item separately if you ever want to get something else.
Don
Although your example doesn't really make a lot of sense. Here's why.
You are already paying for one $200 stamp and waiting months for the paperwork on your $2500 toy.
If you set it up as a proper SBR with a removable silencer, then its just an extra $200. Same wait.
So the only thing you gain by permanently affixing the silencer is a $200 savings.
What you lose is substantial:
1) the ability to replace the silencer if it is damaged
2) the ability use the silencer on another gun
3) the ability to use the SBR in non-silenced configuration
4) the ability to sell each item separately if you ever want to get something else.
Don
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Thank you.
If I have a SBR I cannot have it threaded right.
I read in here that quick disconnects are OK is that right?
Just curious right now.
I already have a ACC Pilot 22. silencer just looking for caliper with a little more impact.
.45 acp fits the bill since it is naturally suppressed any AR I would need subsonic rounds then there is issues to cycle.
I think I might stick with a pistol for now the FNP .45 tactical looks nice it comes with a threaded barrel, and a lot cheaper.
How do the tilt barrels pistols act when you hang a silencer off the end?
~Justin
dcmdon
NES Member
Since you are looking for a suppressor, I'll assume that you are not in MA.
If you are in CT, which has an AWB but allows silencers, you would need to permanently affix some kind of quick connect muzzle end device to the Kriss.
If you are in NH, VT, RI or ME, then there is no problem with having a threaded bbl. So you could just buy a relatively inexpensive threaded silencer.
I'm a big fan of the Cobra II from YHM. Its not the quietest, but it disassembles for cleaning. Something most other centerfire silencers don't do.
This allows you to shoot lead reloads if you want to without worrying about the lead ruining the silencer.
If you only shoot jacketed factory ammo, then don't worry about it.
Don
OOps. This is the CT law theread. sorry about that.
If you are in CT, which has an AWB but allows silencers, you would need to permanently affix some kind of quick connect muzzle end device to the Kriss.
If you are in NH, VT, RI or ME, then there is no problem with having a threaded bbl. So you could just buy a relatively inexpensive threaded silencer.
I'm a big fan of the Cobra II from YHM. Its not the quietest, but it disassembles for cleaning. Something most other centerfire silencers don't do.
This allows you to shoot lead reloads if you want to without worrying about the lead ruining the silencer.
If you only shoot jacketed factory ammo, then don't worry about it.
Don
OOps. This is the CT law theread. sorry about that.
Check out ThompsonMachine.net (and on youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/panaceabeachbum?feature=watch) ...They make some great suppressors over there. I obviously do not own one currently due to my living conditions (MA) but I have contacted them and they are always friendly and knowledgeable and their products seem to be of high quality and low price (pistol calibers for $350-400!)