Letting the slide slam on an empty chamber

[highlander]

I've had no "formal" training in the use of firearms ie military,police or such,but in my 40+ years of owning firearms letting the slide go on an empty chamber,snaping the cylinder of a revolver seemed to be a great way to break something. If I'm shooting any of my semi auto pistol I do use the slide stop to reload from a fresh mag figureing on the info previously mentioned. Never snapped the cylinder of a revolver in my life always pushed the cylinder closed by hand. The only pistol I know of that won't take repeated reloading from the slide stop are the Ruger MK I,II and III,somewhere I heard that it will wear out the bolt stop/slide release.

 

[50 BMG]

RE: car door analogy

I'd say the difference is a car door isn't designed with a strength to withstand 20,000 explosions over the course of its life.

No kidding. Its was an example....why would you slam something shut when you don't have to.

Highlander, according to "That Guy" it can withstand 20,000 explosions so its ok.

 

[GunGrey]

My Dad taught me to always ease the slide back by hand. I have done it that way for more than 30 years and that is how I taught my son to do it. It just seems like the right way, less slammy

pretty much

 

[Fixxah]

I have never heard that letting the slide close on an empty chamber hurts anything. What does everyone do at the end of the day when they are done shooting, just go home with the slide locked back? I am cracking up at some of the stuff that comes out of here sometimes.




Really? How does it get closed if not by flipping it closed?



Why is this?

This stuff all sounds like some sort of gun lore or whatever. It is just a simple piece of metal, and does not care how you load it.

Full retard. No offense to those afflicted.

-tapatalk and Devin McCourty blow chunks-

 

[That Guy]

My point was guns are designed to handle something much more violent than slamming the slide forward. And the 20,000 figure comes from the number of rounds the military expects out of an M9 before major service.

 

[fencer]

My point was guns are designed to handle something much more violent than slamming the slide forward. And the 20,000 figure comes from the number of rounds the military expects out of an M9 before major service.

It's a valid point, and it is probably not a big deal. But the way I look at it is, the number of times the slide can slam forward before something needs attention is finite. The more often you do it, the sooner it will require attention.
Unless the firearm in question is a Taurus. Those will just fall apart while in use

 

[Supermoto]

My point was guns are designed to handle something much more violent than slamming the slide forward. And the 20,000 figure comes from the number of rounds the military expects out of an M9 before major service.

The barrels are, the lugs and sears are not

 

[dcmdon]

Brownells calls the part for the Glock a "slide release". Elsewhere I've seen it called a "slide stop lever".

Actually, on a Glock, it really is a slide release. The slide stop is a different part on a glock. That probably explains that.

I never worried much about dropping a slide on an empty chamber until I got my first 1911. That was the only gun I had ever been told to worry about. Prior to that most of my semi-auto experience was with a Ruger MkII, S&W6906, Glocks, and Kahrs.

As a lefty, I generally use the overhand slingshot because the slide release is not a reliable way to drop the slide with all my guns and I want to use one method in competition so if I ever have to do it in real life, I won't revert to the less reliable way of doing things, practiced many times in competition. With that said, all my 1911s either have or will soon have Greider slide stops, which have a nice step that allows a lefty to drop the slide with their trigger finger reliably and easily. Just in case.

 

[P-14]

In IDPA at the end of each stage, you are required to show clear, close the slide, and drop the hammer before the gun is safe and can be holstered.

If I'm at slide lock, I've never hesitated to release the slide via the slide lock release and slam the slide home on an empty chamber. The Para has over 20K rounds through it and runs just fine. YMMV.

 

[Steyr_AUG]

On most guns it won't damage anything.

That said, its a stupid habit to get into. You do that to someone's 1911 and they'll probably be pretty pissed at you. Its easy enough to not do it. Same thing with "ghetto loading" any semiautomatic pistol via the ejection port. Take that picture of that kid, "Douchebag Steve" wearing the funny jacket with the hat on backwards, if he owned guns those are the EXACT two things he would do, all the time, well, that followed by "flipping" the crane closed on a revolver to load it. (And this one is particularly an extra douchebag move, because it damages the **** out of revolver parts).

-Mike

FWIW, the Beretta 92 was designed to allow "port loading" ie "ghetto loading".

 

[TBalls]

My understanding is that you can potentially cause peening on the bearing/locking surfaces by releasing the slide without chambering a round. I'm sure it would probably take a lot of repetition, but there's just no reason for it.

I try to think of it like "dry firing" a bow, which is an awful idea.

 

[dcmdon]

In IDPA at the end of each stage, you are required to show clear, close the slide, and drop the hammer before the gun is safe and can be holstered.

If I'm at slide lock, I've never hesitated to release the slide via the slide lock release and slam the slide home on an empty chamber. The Para has over 20K rounds through it and runs just fine. YMMV.

I almost mentioned that. For 10 years I shot a Glock in IDPA and dropped the slide with an overhand slingshot, letting it drop at full strength. With over 30K rounds through my G34. I'm convinced it does the gun no harm.

When i started shooting 1911s I was schooled to ease the slide forward. I'm not 100% its necessary, but its not much trouble, and it was easy to get in the habit.

 

[Jamie]

I have yet to see it damage anything I own.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

My point was guns are designed to handle something much more violent than slamming the slide forward. And the 20,000 figure comes from the number of rounds the military expects out of an M9 before major service.

True, but there are additional dynamics in play.

When you are firing the gun, the hammer and sear and separated from each other when the slide slams forward, leaving no possibility of them bouncing against each other. Add in the fact that stripping a round off the mag and sliding it under the extractor slows the slide down a bit.

An old time trick popular with 1911 bullseye shooters was to hold the trigger back while releasing the slide, to prevent this bounce and avoid hammer follow in guns with very light trigger jobs. This practice is prohibited in USPSA/IPSC (finger must be outside trigger guard during reload) and you don't hear about it as much as you did in the old days.

 

[dcmdon]

When I got my first fancy 1911, a Nighthawk Custom I was alarmed when the hammer dropped to the safety notch if I dropped the slide empty. I was angry, upset, horrified.

Then I called NHC and was told it was normal, to retest with a full mag and if it still did it, then they'd email me a call tag. I loaded a mag and tried it, no problems then or ever. Hmm.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

When I got my first fancy 1911, a Nighthawk Custom I was alarmed when the hammer dropped to the safety notch if I dropped the slide empty. I was angry, upset, horrified.

Then I called NHC and was told it was normal, to retest with a full mag and if it still did it, then they'd email me a call tag. I loaded a mag and tried it, no problems then or ever. Hmm.

This is called "hammer follow" and is the byproduct of a light trigger job.

 

[dcmdon]

The NH trigger was about 3.0 lbs measured on my digital lymann gauge. Pretty light. My Dan Wesson is about 3.5 and my Baer about 4.0. Neither follow.

 

[M1911]

An old time trick popular with 1911 bullseye shooters was to hold the trigger back while releasing the slide, to prevent this bounce and avoid hammer follow in guns with very light trigger jobs. This practice is prohibited in USPSA/IPSC (finger must be outside trigger guard during reload) and you don't hear about it as much as you did in the old days.

There is an old timer at our gun club who told me about that and still advocate it. Gives me the willies.

 

[Supermoto]

When I got my first fancy 1911, a Nighthawk Custom I was alarmed when the hammer dropped to the safety notch if I dropped the slide empty. I was angry, upset, horrified.

Then I called NHC and was told it was normal, to retest with a full mag and if it still did it, then they'd email me a call tag. I loaded a mag and tried it, no problems then or ever. Hmm.

They just didn't want to take the time to do it right A hammer that follows on an empty slide will eventually follow when chambering

 

[derektrance]

Well I had to think about this a bit and check some things, but it basically comes down to this. Whatever works for you. It's your gun, you bought it, do whatever you want. If you don't care about the wear, go ahead and use the slide release/stop. If you want your gun to last forever, don't. Some folks buy a mustang and drive 20 miles an hour on the highway, others run it balls to the wall every chance they get. Who's to say which way is "right"?
That being said, I'm going to tell you why you SHOULD NOT use it and you should be pulling the slide back to release it and I actually read this somewhere else. Releasing the slide with the release/stop is a fine motor skill. Releasing by pulling the slide is a gross motor skill. With thick gloves on or if you hands are covered in mud or blood, you're more likely going to be able to rack the slide than use the release/stop. The other is during a fast mag change, you may get nothing but air and then you have a big problem. The last reason for using the slide itself is that it's the same as your malfunction drills, so it takes one last thing out of the picture. Simple is better.
Yes, I'm guilty of using my slide release/stop, yes, I've done it on an empty chamber (I can see you cringing), No, it's not a habit nor do I train like that. yes, I try not to.

 

[M1911]

They just didn't want to take the time to do it right A hammer that follows on an empty slide will eventually follow when chambering

Yup.

 

[milktree]

When you fire the gun, the slide slams back pretty hard; metal is elastic, so some of that recoil energy is going into bouncing the slide forward again. It's not *just* the spring force pushing the slide forward when you fire the gun. Plus, the energy stored in the recoil spring is proportional to how far it's compressed. When the slide is released from the slide stop, the spring isn't compressed as much as when the slide is *all* the way back. It's not a big difference, but it's there.

How much energy does stripping a round out of the magazine and feeding it into the chamber take? Not very much. How does that compare to all the other forces? It's tiny, right?

If the difference between damaging the gun and not is as small as empty chamber vs. not, the gun is running damn near its performance envelope, and I wouldn't want to shoot it.

I've never seen an extraction hook that wasn't spring loaded in some way. Even a 1911 extractor is springy, it's a pretty long bit of metal.

 

[bill o]

That being said, I'm going to tell you why you SHOULD NOT use it and you should be pulling the slide back to release it and I actually read this somewhere else. Releasing the slide with the release/stop is a fine motor skill. Releasing by pulling the slide is a gross motor skill.

If you don't rely "fine motor skills," then how do you plan to get the magazine out of the gun?

 

[Supermoto]

If you don't rely "fine motor skills," then how do you plan to get the magazine out of the gun?

Or fire a shot. It comes down to what is easier to train... Slingshot is easier, release is faster. but people rather dismiss a skill than take the time to be proficient at it

 

[Gammon]

Well I had to think about this a bit and check some things, but it basically comes down to this. Whatever works for you. It's your gun, you bought it, do whatever you want. If you don't care about the wear, go ahead and use the slide release/stop. If you want your gun to last forever, don't. Some folks buy a mustang and drive 20 miles an hour on the highway, others run it balls to the wall every chance they get. Who's to say which way is "right"?
That being said, I'm going to tell you why you SHOULD NOT use it and you should be pulling the slide back to release it and I actually read this somewhere else. Releasing the slide with the release/stop is a fine motor skill. Releasing by pulling the slide is a gross motor skill. With thick gloves on or if you hands are covered in mud or blood, you're more likely going to be able to rack the slide than use the release/stop. The other is during a fast mag change, you may get nothing but air and then you have a big problem. The last reason for using the slide itself is that it's the same as your malfunction drills, so it takes one last thing out of the picture. Simple is better.
Yes, I'm guilty of using my slide release/stop, yes, I've done it on an empty chamber (I can see you cringing), No, it's not a habit nor do I train like that. yes, I try not to.

I disagree. I have been using my slide stop for 30 years with no problems. Much faster and more reliable.

 

[Gammon]

I've had it with this thread. Some very experienced shooters have given us the benefit of their knowledge and yet a bunch of dweebs (more than I had expected) refuse to listen. What should have been a learning experience has turned into a useless debate.

 

[M1911]

That being said, I'm going to tell you why you SHOULD NOT use it and you should be pulling the slide back to release it and I actually read this somewhere else. Releasing the slide with the release/stop is a fine motor skill. Releasing by pulling the slide is a gross motor skill. With thick gloves on or if you hands are covered in mud or blood, you're more likely going to be able to rack the slide than use the release/stop. The other is during a fast mag change, you may get nothing but air and then you have a big problem. The last reason for using the slide itself is that it's the same as your malfunction drills, so it takes one last thing out of the picture. Simple is better..

Ah yes, the old fine motor skill drivel, used by some instructors so that they sound more authoritative. Of course, they never define fine motor skill versus gross motor skill, nor do they offer any proof that using the slide release is a fine motor skill or that cycling the slide is a gross motor skill.

Think about it for a moment. In order to fire a gun, you need to push a small lever (the trigger) while not disturbing the sights. In order to use the slide stop, you need to push a small lever and it doesn't matter whether or not you disturb the sights. If you are so convinced that you won't be able to use the slide stop, why do you think that you will be able to pull the trigger or hit the mag release button?

The other hole in the theory is that cycling the slide is more of a gross motor skill. As an NRA certified instructor, I can tell you that many students have trouble cycling the slide - they don't grip it firmly enough and their hands slip off. None of students ever had a problem pushing the slide stop. And it isn't just novices - I've seen an IDPA SSP master have his hand slip off the slide while trying to cycle it, requiring him to do it a second time.

As an IDPA safety officer, I've seen a lot of stupid things. But I don't think I've ever seen someone miss the slide stop.

With just a little bit of training, you can learn to hit a well-sized and well-placed slide stop. It isn't that hard. And it will save you 1/4 to 1/2 a second on your reload.

So do us all a favor and stop repeating the fine motor skill bushwa. Learning to use the slide release is no different than learning any other manipulation of a semi-auto.

As for the assertion that it will damage the slide release notch - it won't if you have a decent gun. I've got enough rounds through my Wilson 1911 that my gunsmith is suggesting that I replace the barrel. But the slide release notch on the slide is still fine. The only gun I have that has a damaged slide release notch is my ParaOrdnance, which is a POS gun with many other issues.

 

[dcmdon]

As a LH person, I prefer overhand slingshot. However, if I could reliably drop the slide with the slide release on every handgun I own that I'm likely use for competition or defense, then I'd switch. It's faster and only requires one hand.

I can't get a good purchase on the slide release with my trigger finger on all the guns.

Do what works for you.

 

[bill o]

If you can't hit the slide release by swiping your thumb, you need to see a neurologist.

 

[dcmdon]

If you can't hit the slide release by swiping your thumb, you need to see a neurologist.

If you are right handed and don't shoot a glock, I agree.